Epiphone Special 1 wraparound bridge Problems

[Platefire]

I got a Epiphone Special 1 that I come to like a lot but I noticed that the little e and b strings was cutting into the metal on the back where it wraps around. So I did a little shopping and research on line to buy a replacement. Didn't want to spend a whole lot because it is a cheap guitar. Just a little upgrade so I wouldn't have that problem no more.  I finally decided on the Stu Mac Lightening Bolt(see link). All the specs matched so I thought it would be good?

https://www.stewmac.com/parts-and-hardware/bridges-and-tailpieces/bridges-and-tailpieces-for-electric-guitar/golden-age-lightning-bolt-wraparound-bridge?queryid=08854459953fcfa94d4b7c04a6548eed

Well I got it in yesterday and attempted to install it last night by just installing the big E string only to make sure it would intoneate correctly but it wouldn't! Even with it sharpest setting all the way forward it was still way flat in the 12th fret octave. I didn't even attempt to install the rest of the strings because I know I couldn't live with that. So I put the old bridge back on.

Alright, some of you guitar techs tell me where I went wrong. Platefire 

[rake]

1st of maybe many questions. How much too flat? I've seen where you had to do a bit of smoothing to the bottom of the "hook" with a Dremel.
If it's only a couple cents sometimes the total string tension can also correct this.

I've always used these but lose the goofy screws for appropriate length set screws:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/396073471918

[mresistor]

Hey Rake   whats happenin'?    Thats a super long url link. See that question mark after the 8 put your cursor between that 8 and that questions mark then hold the delete button down untill all the goble gook stuff to the right is gone.  Copy what's left to post on forum.  All we need is the url with the item number not the gobbe gook stuff.
I don't know why all that stuff is in the url it's certainly weird.

[rake]

It's cuz I right clicked and copied the link. I guess all that shyte comes with it?!?!?!?

Damn smart azz moderators! 

[Platefire]

Thanks rake
How much too flat? In terms of cents, not sure I can define it correctly but on my snark with 12:00 being dead on 440 tuning the snark was showing about 9:00 o'clock.
I just can't imagine it being that far flat set fully forward. I checked it several times and made sure my adjustment screw was backed off all the way. I would want it with a little extra play where I could make it go a little sharp, if I wanted it to.I sure wanted it to work because the Stu Mac is a lot more solid piece that the Epiphone one is.
 
Another thing!!! I used the provided Stu Mac mounted studs(top part) and screwed them into the existing Epi mounting bases. It all seemed to fit together well, so I thought it would be alright. Before I go back and try it again, hope to get some better knowledge to get it to work. I do have a Black and Decker type Dremel.  Platefire
 

[rake]

Normally you get it set up correctly before you intonate as high action can effect intonation.
Skip the tuner for a bit. Play the 12th harmonic followed by the fretted 12th and see what your ear tells you.
Some of the clip on tuners don't seem to play well with different octaves. That's why I just can't get rid of
my old strobe tuner!

[Platefire]

Thanks rake

Think I will give it another go with a new set of strings. I only tested the intonation with the big E string only strung up first time, so I guess to be fair I need to give it a shot with a full set of new strings. Then I can be sure if it's a hit or miss.

I did send a message to Stew Mac to see if that bridge was intended to work with a Epi Special 1. 

I will wait to see what they say. The epiphone bridge intonates pretty well, just needs to be more heavy duty. Thanks again for your help, Platefire

BTW==I like the fact that a wraparound bridge though dated, is one solid piece without
any moving parts which to me seems would translate to better sustain and tone

[rake]

The one thing I'm seeing is there's a lot less "angle" to the posts on the Epi compared to the originals. (Jr, Specials, Melodymakers, etc.)
That could create an issue???? The downside to the lightning bolt is it's always a compromise as some brands and gauges of strings
will intonate better than others.  Might be better off to go with one of the wrap arounds with
individually adjusted saddles like the Badass. Got a pic of the original bridge next to this new one?

Please keep us informed! 

[Willabe]

I saw this not long ago. Tom Bukovac, Nashville studio guitarist was part of making this wrap around Gibson style bridge.

Look at the pictures, 1 big part of this bridge is, the hi E end of this bridge has much more depth of steel where it goes around the bridge bolt.

Only fits old Gibbies.

https://musiccitybridge.com/products/the-stud-finder-guitar-bridge

[Platefire]

Picture shows the two side by side. Yelp the old Jr bridges was more offset than my Epi bridge. That very well might be the issue. Best I can tell mine is offset about 1/8"---not much. The main difference I can tell in comparing the two is the Stew Mac had slightly higher saddles.

Pictured also is where the little e and b is cutting into the back of the epi bridge. The bridge so far is working fine but the fact that I know it will probably continue cutting in bugs me. Should be solid enough not to do that!

Willabe, Thanks but I had previously seen that video in my research before buying this bridge. Those first wraparound bridges didn't even have saddles, the strings just wrapped around the smooth bar. Gibson finally improved the wraparound to where you could half way intoneate them, then along came the tuneamatic--problem solved. Platefire

[Willabe]

I don't think that bridge will work with your guitar.

Gibson positioned the studs wrong on the old Les Paul Jr's. The angle was wrong, the high E side was way to far forward. That's why the treble side had to be pushed way back away from the neck with the bridge screw. And then that end of the bridge didn't make good contact with the stud bolt. They finally fixed the angle of the 2 stud holes.

That bridge fixes all the problems with the old Gibson's that have the stud bolt holes drilled wrong.   

[rake]

These are a bit more do-re-mi but far more intonatable. And, qualify for free shipping!

https://www.philadelphialuthiertools.com/bridge-and-tailpieces/gotoh-510ub-wraparound-guitar-bridge-and-tailpiece-with-stud-lock/

[Platefire]

I heard from a Stew Mac Tech. He gave a long detailed response. I won't show all that he said but what he said in anutshell cab be summed up in his first paragraph:
"From what I can tell in your pic and what I see online, they are the exact same bridge (likely from the same supplier) so there should be no reason they don't intonate the same. And being flat is usually the opposite problem you find on these, so something else may be going on here"
In the near future I'm going to give it another go with a new set of strings to make sure I give it a fair honest test, then I will know for sure. Platefire

[Platefire]

OK, got er dun! I thought it wasn't going to work out but after I put a new strings on and adjusted the bridge all the way forward, it I got a octave in the 12th fret by mr snarks measurements which I know  is a long way from a strobe tuner but I guess close enough for government work:>) Just as long as I don't need to go forward(sharp) any further, I'll be ok. Good incentive to keep a fresh set of strings on.

The sound it a little bit different than the Epi bridge making the P-90 sound a little bit more like a humbucker. Deeper throatier tone with the drive pedals kicked in.

I just took the adjustment screws out because they were backed off all the way and put them with the old bridge parts.Well I'm gonna call this a fix until I learn better. Here is a couple of pixs. Platefire

[rake]

Without the OG bridge in hand I'd guess that it was a crappy pot metal the way the strings just dug into it.?.?.
You weren't swinging it around by the strings, were you? 
Even a good grade of Aluminum would transfer tone better than pot metal.
Glad it worked out for you!

[Platefire]

Playum Thunder Stick with heavy hand for many moons! No letum up