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Hoffman Amps Forum image Author Topic: What in the wildly swinging soldering iron am I looking at here? modded '75SFTR  (Read 1378 times)

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Offline Redwood

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So I practically stole this Silverface Twin Reverb I don't even know how long ago, at least 5 or 6 years. The guy sold it for $250 because it was so beat up even though it worked and sounded pretty good.  I probably only plugged it in once or twice after I got it home because between the Master Volume barely clinging to the front panel and the output transformer dangling from the chassis by 2 screws, it obviously needed to be gone through and since I have a pile of other amps it wasn't a big priority, just something I knew I wanted to get to some day.  I've owned dozens of amps and worked on a lot of them, but this is the first legit hand-wired Fender I've ever owned and probably only the 2nd or 3rd one that I've cracked open, so I've read plenty about them and watched lots of restoration videos getting to this point where I finally pulled the chassis and put this thing on the bench last night.  Before doing that I powered it up slowly with the variac and dim bulb and was surprised to find it still sounded pretty great, although it did seem the output became a bit less sparkly after it got good and warmed up.
So I proceeded to pull the chassis and wow, does this thing look abused. The photo is not distorted; the front and rear panels actually are that bent.  Everything is positively filthy, though I'm happy to report I couldn't detect any conductivity across the turret board.  I didn't really exhaustively check for DC leaks but I intend to do a very thorough cleaning either way.
There are so many different schematics for the Twins and the mid 70s SF era has always been the most confusing to me.  I thought once I started comparing this to the different versions on this site it wouldn't be too tough to figure out which one I've got.  I guess the 100uf filter caps would point to the 100w amp with the CBS logo in the title block, but I quickly realized the bias circuit has been modded and there are a few other inconsistencies so I'm not 100% sure about that.  I don't think it's been extensively modded but things like the MV is not push/pull, a freaking 470uF bias cap (an odd cap too, no voltage marking I can find?), the inexplicable extra 5k trimmer pot in series with the balance pot, etc., have me scratching my head. 

Beyond that there's just the atrocious hack work ethic in here, lots of weak looking solder joints and places where a big honkin' soldering iron was allowed to melt wiring insulation, just super sloppy work.

In any event, despite the fact somebody did a lot of poking around in here, it doesn't look like a lot of parts have been replaced.  The main filter caps are all Mallory dated 1974, and none of the coupling or bypass caps have been replaced, save for possibly a couple of ceramics connected to the grids of V5 - and not for nuthin' but neither the vibrato or reverb are currently working.  I can see the neon bulb flashing but haven't investigated beyond that.
In any event, I think I want to begin by just restoring this to as original as I can to begin with, new F&T filter caps, all the cathode bypass caps, etc., verify resistor values haven't drifted too far, get the effects working, straighten the chassis and correct any other mechanical issues, etc.  Beyond that I'll consider whether I want to do a master volume mod to Uncle Doug style Presence control or anything else.
But first and foremost I just want to make sure I'm looking at the right schematic or even if I am, should I consider using the AB763 as my guide? 

Offline Redwood

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closeup of bias board

Offline jojokeo

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It doesn't look all that bad, and have seen worse for sure! You could put a lot of time, money, and effort into it for no performance difference? Once the chassis is back in the cabinet nobody will see inside so internally it's not a beauty contest. It's a performance, durability, and reliability contest. Satisfaction comes when it's all done and if you're happy with the outcomes. You didn't reference any schematic as you wondered if you were looking that the right one? Test all of the tubes before troubleshooting the Reverb & Trem circuits. On the Trem circuit check the cap values, some like to swap a 0.01 for a .02 to slow it down a bit but this is overdone the Trem will stop working or be faint. Have fun with it
To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many is research.

Offline Redwood

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Sorry, I thought I was clear I meant the schematic linked from this site that's just labeled "100 watt RMS Amp" and has a big CBS logo in the title block, which does not apparently have a circuit number like AB763 or AB568.   
https://el34world.com/charts/Schematics/files/Fender/Fender_twin_reverb_sf_100_schem.pdf
If there is a circuit number across the top it got cropped off. This is the only one I've found with 100uF filter caps.  My biggest question is really just what in the heck is going on with that bias circuit since I can't understand why anybody would put 470uF in there, or why they added the little trim pot, and since I'm not that familiar with these I wanted to make sure there wasn't a really good reason for it before I revert to standard schematic values.
Your other comments are well taken.  The cabinet is so banged up my only goal is to make this thing reliable and sound good since I know it's never going to have much value beyond that.  But I'm pretty sure I have no choice but to clean it up because it's so filthy now I can't imagine trying to get good solder joints without removing the grease and wax from all the eyelets and component leads, and I figure I'm going to need to reflow a lot of solder joints in here before I'm confident there won't be intermittent issues with them.

Offline shooter

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Quote
I wanted to make sure there wasn't a really good reason for it before I revert to standard schematic values.


BEFORE you do anything with POWER ON, you need to insure the PA tubes are NOT installed until you verify that -52vdc is at the grid pins on the TUBE side of the sockets.  Once you're confident it's there, then tweak with the pot to see what "range" is covered by the pot
ie; -45 to -51vdc. set it at the most NEGITIVE of that range to start.


IF this is a project amp, I highly recommend putting 1 ohm resistors from Cathode to ground on ALL PA tubes.  It's a quick n dirty way to measure Tube current, may save blowing PA tubes.
Went Class C for efficiency

Offline passaloutre

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Looks pretty normal for a 70s Twin; I've been inside several, most stamped "J. Castillo."

The bias trim pot is a pretty standard modification, since these only came from the factory with a bias balance circuit. I usually just rewire the existing pot to a "blackpanel" bias, but some people like to keep the balance control.

My only guess for the 470uf cap is comeone just grabbed a cap that looked about the same size as what was there.

You said yourself it sounds good...I'd go ahead and replace the electrolytics for another 50 years of hard service and button it back up. These 70s Fenders are workhorses, not museum pieces.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2025, 02:35:12 pm by passaloutre »

Offline Redwood

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Spent more time with the Twin this week and while I could get bias in the range it was just barely there.  Since I'm definitely doing all the filter caps and diodes anyway I decided to try to return the bias network to stock save for keeping the 5k pot but think I'm going to relocate it because currently it's just hanging by one leg soldered to a diode so it moves around when adjusting it - not very comforting right next to hundreds of volts on those rectifier diodes right next to it.
Thanks for all the input and I'll report back as work commences after parts arrive.
Quote
I wanted to make sure there wasn't a really good reason for it before I revert to standard schematic values.


BEFORE you do anything with POWER ON, you need to insure the PA tubes are NOT installed until you verify that -52vdc is at the grid pins on the TUBE side of the sockets.  Once you're confident it's there, then tweak with the pot to see what "range" is covered by the pot
ie; -45 to -51vdc. set it at the most NEGITIVE of that range to start.


IF this is a project amp, I highly recommend putting 1 ohm resistors from Cathode to ground on ALL PA tubes.  It's a quick n dirty way to measure Tube current, may save blowing PA tubes.

Offline tubeswell

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I’d also replace the big white cap next to the bias pot - Especially if it’s still hummy after you’ve done all the other filter caps.
A bus stops at a bus station. A train stops at a train station. On my desk, I have a work station.

Offline Redwood

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Definitely planning to do both the bias caps and all those white cathode bypass caps as well. 

I’d also replace the big white cap next to the bias pot - Especially if it’s still hummy after you’ve done all the other filter caps.

 


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