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Hoffman Amps Forum image Author Topic: '94 Fender Concert Amp - how to improve drive channel?  (Read 1041 times)

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Offline Maddo

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'94 Fender Concert Amp - how to improve drive channel?
« on: October 26, 2025, 05:56:29 am »
How can the drive channel on my concert be improved? As it is, it sounds like a cheap distortion pedal, I guess there’s very symmetrical clipping going on. It’s also very reduced in low end compared to the clean channel, even with bass maxed. I already put in a Celestion G12-80, which improved things already. But no matter how I dial it in, the fundamental clipping character is not very pleasant to my ears. I tried a 3.3k cathode resistor in the first stage of the drive path, but it didn’t have much effect.
Currently I am comparing drive channels of similar amps (e.g. Super Sonic, Pro Tube…), looking for inspiration.
Is it even possible with 2 gain stages to get a good (asymmetrical?) clipping?
https://el34world.com/charts/Schematics/files/Fender/Fender_93_super_concert.pdf

Offline stratomaster

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Re: '94 Fender Concert Amp - how to improve drive channel?
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2025, 01:20:30 pm »
I would replace C3 with 0.0047-0.01μF and C9 with 1μF to start.

Offline ac427v

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Re: '94 Fender Concert Amp - how to improve drive channel?
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2025, 02:22:40 pm »
Never worked on one of these. But wow, they go for bargain prices for what you get!

I see three preamp stages in the Drive circuit counting V1A. There is plenty of gain available to create the distortion sound you seek.

I prefer to boost bass without creating farty distortion. I want tight bass with immediate attack. I do not mod the bass-cutting components that occur early in a Drive circuit. I focus on modding those that happen late in the circuit. Starting with the V2B coupling capacitor, C14. Temporarily tack-solder in a .01 or .02 coupling cap in parallel with the existing .0033uf. That change alone may be enough.
If you need more bass, working backwards towards the input, increase Bass coupling cap C11 next. Then spend some time playing with this monster :guitar1


Offline tubeswell

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Re: '94 Fender Concert Amp - how to improve drive channel?
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2025, 06:31:07 pm »
It’s not really designed for good distortion. It’s trying to be an overdrive channel and a fender blackface channel (with a TMB tonestack in between the o/d channel triodes) at the same time. To get better overdrive, you really want to do something like copy the SLO100 OD channel (but that doesn’t have a tonestack between the 2 OD channel triodes, and the tone stack is after the direct coupled CF (which is) further along the signal path. So really, unless you do major heart surgery on your amp, it will probably only ever amount to unsatisfactory compromises, and you should leave the amp as-is and get another amp like a Dumble ODS for overdrive sounds. YMMV
A bus stops at a bus station. A train stops at a train station. On my desk, I have a work station.

Offline stratomaster

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Re: '94 Fender Concert Amp - how to improve drive channel?
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2025, 01:45:27 am »
I would replace C3 with 0.0047-0.01μF and C9 with 1μF to start.

Now that I think about it, you can get pretty clever with the drive channel.  If you spin around real fast and squint at the schematic while covering one eye it looks a little like a Trainwreck Express. More on that in a bit.

While I agree ac427v that cutting lows early in an OD circuit is a good strategy, it's worth noting that C2 and C3 are in series and R7 and R8 are in parallel. This puts the input cutoff frequency at about 250Hz.  Much of the body is gone when high passing that far up.  I still say to tweak C3, but maybe don't go higher than 0.0047μF to keep it from getting muddy.

Back to being clever and the Trainwreck Express similarities: there are 3 stages and a fender style tonestack in both the drive section of this amp and the Trainwreck.  Granted the tonestack is in a different spot, so just copying the Trainwreck values blindly isn't likely to be fruitful.  But we can take inspiration.

I would first depopulate C13 and replace R24 with a 10k.  This will give you the cold clipping/asymmetry you're seeking BUT it will drastically cut the output of the stage. To make up for that I suggest paralleling a 100k across R25, or even outright jumping across it. This has the benefit of also relaxing the low cut at the end of the drive stage.

The other thing you need to make the most of the cold clipper is to hit it pretty hard. There's a fixed voltage divider formed by R116 and R55 that cuts the signal in half.  I'd parallel a 220k across R116 to start (experiment with values from 100k to 470k). This will give you more signal into the tonestack, and therefore into the cold clipper.

Also I would put a 1μF cap in parallel with R17 (which I would replace with a 1k) and/or replace R18 with a 10k trimpot. The first change hard wires a high shelf boost at about 200hz and biases the stage slightly hotter. The second allows the large cathode cap to be somewhat active even when "switched out", and being able to get the shades in between no cap and full bypass. Find the one you like and that becomes the new baseline.

Or you can be even more clever and put the cold clipper here (10k in place of R17) and put a 1.5k resistor in parallel with C9.  This will give you the option of cold clipper or hot fully bypassed stage, each with their own dedicated gain knob (assuming I'm understanding the gain switching schematic correctly).  You'll still want to tweak the voltage divider, but you'll probably find you keep one knob pretty low and the other fairly high.

 These tweaks can likely introduce a good bit of fizz into the signal, so don't be shy about using 220-820pF caps to bypass the plates in the drive stage.  I'd probably go fairly aggressive with 680-820pF on only the last stage to start out. This gives the upper harmonics a chance to intermingle before they are cut.

Hope this gives you a few ideas.  I don't know how this would all sound, but it sounds like anything is an improvement from what you're experiencing on the stock design. Worth experimenting.

Update: added a marked up schematic of most of these ideas plus a few I didn't discuss.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2025, 02:18:48 am by stratomaster »

Offline Maddo

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Re: '94 Fender Concert Amp - how to improve drive channel?
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2025, 03:49:26 am »
Thank you guys, very good ideas here. The switchable cold clipper is genius, I will try that. Does it have any disadvantages if I parallel coupling caps, to increase the value?
And instead of bypassing the plate resistor, how about to put a treble bleed across the volume pot R28, like in the super sonic and hot series, e.g. 470pF?
The only difficulty would be to put the 220k resistor between R8 and RY2A.

Offline stratomaster

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Re: '94 Fender Concert Amp - how to improve drive channel?
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2025, 10:11:01 am »
Does it have any disadvantages if I parallel coupling caps, to increase the value?

And instead of bypassing the plate resistor, how about to put a treble bleed across the volume pot R28, like in the super sonic and hot series, e.g. 470pF?

The only difficulty would be to put the 220k resistor between R8 and RY2A.

No issues with paralleling the caps.  Some claim to hear a difference in tonality between cap types and will parallel different types for tonal effect.  I don't count myself in that group.

Treble bleed cap is fine. Similar effect.

For the 220k you can simply lift a leg of the pot or relay and shoehorn the resistor. Or cut a trace, or see if there's a wire somewhere in the path from the pot to the relay and splice the resistor in there.  Be creative.

Offline Maddo

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Re: '94 Fender Concert Amp - how to improve drive channel?
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2025, 04:36:33 am »
Yesterday I tested the cold clipper idea at V2B, that gave power chords really nice harmonic content, but the downside was that there was always a nasty "frizzle" in the note decay, so I went back to 1.5k. I also tested 4.8nF (1.5nF+3.3nF) at C3, but that was already too muddy. For C14 I tested 10nF and 4.7nF, the latter sounded best here. Treble bleed at the volume pot was the most pleasant mod so far. 470pF sounded good, but gave the treble pot very limited range, so I stayed with 220pF here, perhaps today I will try also 390pF.

Offline stratomaster

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Re: '94 Fender Concert Amp - how to improve drive channel?
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2025, 11:09:07 am »
Cold clippers can definitely get odd on the decay. That's why I recommended hitting it hard and bypassing the plates. Just putting the cold clipper in without compensation elsewhere is a recipe for disaster. Also, you shouldn't bypass a cold clipper, so I want to make sure you also depopulated the cathode cap when you make the resistor change.

Offline Maddo

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Re: '94 Fender Concert Amp - how to improve drive channel?
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2025, 01:25:46 pm »
I made a dumb mistake on my first test run  :laugh:
As I was testing, the frizzle got more and more worse, and then I put anything back to stock and it was persistent.
Then I rolled all tubes and it didn’t go away  :help:.
When I got home from work today I had the idea of testing another amp with the speaker in the combo, and the frizzle was also there. Then I took a look at the speaker and there was the cable from the reverb tank trapped inside the speaker frame, touching the cone  :BangHead:.
Now I have to test everything again, but some solder traces already started starting lifting.

Offline tubeswell

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Re: '94 Fender Concert Amp - how to improve drive channel?
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2025, 04:23:07 pm »
but some solder traces already started starting lifting.


yes, its a slippery slope
A bus stops at a bus station. A train stops at a train station. On my desk, I have a work station.

Offline DeepBias

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Re: '94 Fender Concert Amp - how to improve drive channel?
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2025, 10:32:26 am »
but some solder traces already started starting lifting.


yes, its a slippery slope

When doing tests better to use small test hooks or alligator clips to try new components or, if possible, to parallel components instead of desoldering/soldering repetitively.

https://e-z-hook.com/blog-guide-to-test-hooks/
 
The older I get, the more I just like plugging directly into my amp

Offline tubeswell

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Re: '94 Fender Concert Amp - how to improve drive channel?
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2025, 01:31:46 pm »
Yep, test clips are what I use
A bus stops at a bus station. A train stops at a train station. On my desk, I have a work station.

Offline Maddo

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Re: '94 Fender Concert Amp - how to improve drive channel?
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2025, 12:52:45 pm »
After all experimentation I came to the conclusion that the circuit was already optimized as it came stock.
I discovered that I, when I got the amp 1-2 years ago, already swapped the 22uF C9 for a 1uF when I recapped the whole thing. I forgot about this, and this was the reason the red channel wasn’t satisfying. In the end I put the 22uF back and this was the best outcome for the given PCB routing, it seems.

Offline tubeswell

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Re: '94 Fender Concert Amp - how to improve drive channel?
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2025, 02:57:00 am »
Yes, well sometimes you have to try a thing for yourself, no matter how many ‘I told you sos’ other peeps might try and tell you
A bus stops at a bus station. A train stops at a train station. On my desk, I have a work station.

 


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