Author Topic: New project: Matchless Clubman 35 (Now with schematic and voltages) (Read 24299 times)

SirElwood · « **on:** January 13, 2009, 03:41:19 pm »

Hi!

It's time for a new project after successful little wing. My new project will be matchless clubman, because my friend want's one. Here is the schematic: http://www.schematicheaven.com/newamps/matchless_clubman.pdf and here is my draft layout with EF86 tube: http://www.mia-amps.com/images/clubmanlayout.png Tone controls might be wrong in my layout, I had a hard time to interpret that schematic. I'm going to fit this in hammond 1444-26 chassis and head cabinet.

If you find errors or if you have any comments, suggestion, ideas etc. please tell me.

Best regards

Elwood

zach · « **Reply #1 on:** January 13, 2009, 03:57:35 pm »

the tone controls look wrong to me, but i've never been able to translate them from a schematic to a layout anyway, so i could be way off.

be sure to post up how it turns out...i know a guy that wants one of these pretty badly, and it would be cool if i could build him one.

punkykatt · « **Reply #2 on:** January 13, 2009, 06:56:48 pm »

Elwood, I just sent you an e-mail of my hand drawn 1996 matchless clubman 35 schematic. File was too big to post here. Study both schematics and note the changes for the ef86. Also the tone pots wiring is not complete and wired wrong. Study study study you will find it. Punky

SirElwood · « **Reply #3 on:** January 13, 2009, 07:16:30 pm »

Hi punkykatt!

Thanks for the email, but it did not include any attachments. :( Can you send it to me again?

tubenit · « **Reply #4 on:** January 13, 2009, 07:17:42 pm »

Did you know there is a Matchvox NightClub guy amp schematic and layout in the SCH files?? That could probably bet edited very easily into what you want.

http://www.el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=597.0

;)

With respect, Tubenit

SirElwood · « **Reply #5 on:** January 13, 2009, 07:26:04 pm »

Quote from: tubenit on January 13, 2009, 07:17:42 pm

Did you know there is a Matchvox NightClub guy amp schematic and layout in the SCH files?? That could probably bet edited very easily into what you want.

http://www.el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=597.0

;)

With respect, Tubenit

No I did not know that... Well now I know! :D

Thanks tubenit!

EDIT: I can't wait to compare that, and punkykatt's schem.

SirElwood · « **Reply #6 on:** January 14, 2009, 07:16:39 am »

I got punkykatt's schematic, and I made a "new" layout. Small changes here and there. Mostly on tone controls.

http://www.mia-amps.com/images/clubmanlayout.png

sluckey · « **Reply #7 on:** January 14, 2009, 07:30:45 am »

Don't forget to ground that 47K 'tail' resistor.

tubenit · « **Reply #8 on:** January 14, 2009, 12:11:33 pm »

SirElwood,

How about putting your layout in the thread that has the SCH files for that amp when you're finished, please? ....... or simply in the schematic file and then reference the SCH thread. Either is fine.

Thanks, Tubenit

SirElwood · « **Reply #9 on:** January 18, 2009, 10:34:42 am »

I think this might turn into a one hell of a build... Today I finally got change to make turret boards an some other minor stuff. Looks good so far. I need to order some caps and resistors tho. Transformers are very big and heavy, chassis is steel... That thing will weight a metric ton! :D

I was thinking about that effects loop. I think that passive loop dosn't work (well, if at all) with stomp boxes. So I try to make and active tube loop from Kevin O'Connors "the ultimate tone 1" book. Page 7-11. At least it looks good, and it's fully featured.

EDIT:

Quote

How about putting your layout in the thread that has the SCH files for that amp when you're finished, please?

Sure!

zach · « **Reply #10 on:** January 19, 2009, 10:35:41 pm »

i know it's frowned upon to use SS stuff in a tube amp, but have you considered using an SS loop? this one http://www.ironsounds.com/ is supposed to be damn good, and it's true bypass with a 10dB pad if needed.

i may go to these instead of the tube buffered loop i've been using. i'm not really fond of what a loop does to the feel of the amp, anyway.

SirElwood · « **Reply #11 on:** January 20, 2009, 12:31:00 am »

I was actually thinking about weber copper cap (or similar solution) rectifier. I'm not against SS stuff at all (SS reverb might be nice thing to try). I'm not sure how tight fit it will be between power tranny and cabinet back plate, as I have no cabinet yet, but one heat source less feels like a good idea. However I already have pcb made for that KOC effects loop, and I was able to fit it in quite small size. Only 1,5"x4" plus tube. So far so good.

SirElwood · « **Reply #12 on:** January 21, 2009, 10:48:30 am »

Here's first pictures. It's a tight fit... Empty space "behind" preamp tubes is for FX-loop PCB.

tubenit · « **Reply #13 on:** January 21, 2009, 11:52:44 am »

That looks great! Nice job.

With respect, Tubenit

SirElwood · « **Reply #14 on:** January 28, 2009, 01:50:43 pm »

Here we go.

Progress is kinda slow, this has been very demanding build to me. But finally I got first sounds out of this. I can't say anything about sound quality, but it promises good.

At the moment this amp suffers a bad hissssss (reminds me of a marshall jcm800 for some reason), but I think it's just a bad tube. Also PI wires are really microphonic, no idea why. I think bass and treble pots should be linear, and of course I have both logarithmic so almost nothing happens on first half or 2/3 of the pots rotation. But overall this is looking good. No explosions, electric shocks, or other injuries. :D

Oh yeah, I did shed light on front panel: http://www.tg-music.com/images/IMG_4429.JPG

VMS · « **Reply #15 on:** January 28, 2009, 03:36:28 pm »

Few thoughts that might help.

If you look at the chieftain schematic, the bass pot is marked as reverse audio.

http://www.schematicheaven.com/newamps/matchless_chieftan.pdf

Another thing that is different is the plate resistor (100k) of the first preamp tube. That 18k seems too small, at least if you compare it to other amps.

-ville

SirElwood · « **Reply #16 on:** January 28, 2009, 03:52:35 pm »

Quote from: VMS on January 28, 2009, 03:36:28 pm

If you look at the chieftain schematic, the bass pot is marked as reverse audio.

Makes sense to me. Hell, I don't have those. >:(

Quote from: VMS on January 28, 2009, 03:36:28 pm

Another thing that is different is the plate resistor (100k) of the first preamp tube. That 18k seems too small, at least if you compare it to other amps.

This 18k should be correct. I believe that was an error, but it seems to be right after all... It's matchless, so weird it might be...

SirElwood · « **Reply #17 on:** January 29, 2009, 03:30:12 am »

Ok, here's the schematic and voltages. If you see something weird, please tell me.

I changed rectifier to EH-5U4GB and I did increase cathode resistors on power amp. It's still really hot! Sounds quote good, but needs alot more testing with good speaker cabinet. And ofcourse I need to fix those tone controls. I think I wired treble backwards, and I also need that rev.log. pot for bass.

That's all for now.

BarryW · « **Reply #18 on:** October 22, 2010, 08:23:22 am »

sorry to dredge up an old thread, but how did this ef86 version of the Clubman circuit turn out? I was toying with building one, but I started thinking about using the 5879 in place of the (previously 6SH7) ef86. What the heck, since I'm going to try the Hoso56, thought it might be a good shot here as well. I was going to use iron in the bassman/JTM45 range. Did this schematic work for you?

TIA,
BarryW

TubeGeek · « **Reply #19 on:** December 09, 2010, 12:05:23 am »

I have a Clubman 35 on the bench this week for repair and can snap some pics if it helps either of you out. I think the circuit layout of this amp is crucial.

BarryW · « **Reply #20 on:** December 09, 2010, 07:20:18 am »

Absolutely, I'd really appreciate it. There are some floating around out there, but it would be great to get some good internal pictures. I'm really interested to see how close the existing/circulating schematic is to an original. I'm especially interested in the ef86 values and the cap following the volume pot.

TubeGeek · « **Reply #21 on:** December 09, 2010, 09:52:22 pm »

I took some pics and posted them on my "pics" page at the bottom. Lots of pics here so the page may take a few moments to load.

http://www.glacieramps.com/Glacier_Amplification/Pics/Pics.html

BarryW · « **Reply #22 on:** December 09, 2010, 10:21:32 pm »

Thank you! I appreciate the pix very much!

roseblood11 · « **Reply #23 on:** May 13, 2017, 05:08:31 pm »

Can someone please upload schematic and layout again?

sluckey · « **Reply #24 on:** May 13, 2017, 06:40:44 pm »

It's in Hoffman's schematic library.

roseblood11 · « **Reply #25 on:** May 23, 2017, 06:13:42 am »

Yes, but only the old version with 6SH7, not the later one with EF86

kagliostro · « **Reply #26 on:** May 23, 2017, 06:45:32 am »

Is this what you are looking for ?

Franco

roseblood11 · « **Reply #27 on:** May 23, 2017, 06:47:43 am »

yupp, many thanx! :-)

Johntb · « **Reply #28 on:** December 10, 2017, 09:33:27 pm »

So glad I found this.
I have someone that wants me to make for them.

Any suggestions? Transformers in particular?
He does not want an FX loop and doesn't want a reverb either. I just picked up about 5 of them and offered just to add it in for just the cost of parts but he didn't want it.

Thanks,

John

tubenit · « **Reply #29 on:** December 12, 2017, 06:27:47 am »

The schematic has 426 volts on plates.

Using a 5U4GT (1.2 x VAC) 426/1.2 = 355 So, you'd look for a PT with around 355-0-355

Using a GZ34 (1.3 x VAC) 426/1.3 = 327 You'd look for a PT with around 325-0-325

Looking at the Tube Data Cheat Sheet, you'd probably want 150 ma capacity PT.

So, you could consider a Mojotone Super Reverb type PT since it has 362-0-362 with 150ma. And it has a 5 volt winding for a tube rectifier.

http://el34world.com/Transformers/files/MOJO761.pdf

The only other thing I'd definitely change is the crossline master volume. I think they sound awful. I'd use a LarMar PPIMV. I think you could use a 5879 in place of the EF86 if you wanted to.

With respect, Tubenit

DummyLoad · « **Reply #30 on:** December 12, 2017, 12:45:57 pm »

Quote from: tubenit on December 12, 2017, 06:54:12 am

I noticed the original is using a GZ34 with 380v on the EL34 plates.

http://el34world.com/charts/Schematics/files/matchless/matchless_clubman.pdf

380/1.3 = 292. So, IF you're wanting to go closer to the original then you'd look at 300-0-300 with 150ma PT.

schematic shows 430v to plates. 380v g2 after dropping thru 1k. g2 supply is 405v. use 650vct PT.

DummyLoad · « **Reply #31 on:** December 12, 2017, 06:40:48 pm »

B+ value incorrect on the clubman35 schematic. see circled. it is not likely that is 405V - more likely 425V.

--pete

turtle441 · « **Reply #32 on:** December 12, 2017, 08:28:16 pm »

For transformers, check out TDS. http://www.yelp.com/biz/transformer-design-and-supply-san-jacinto

Their website's been down for a while, but they're still going. They take orders over the phone and Bill via PayPal. They made the iron for the original Sampson-era amps. I got one of their sets for my Ligtning/spitfire build.

shooter · « **Reply #33 on:** December 12, 2017, 08:43:06 pm »

Quote

more likely 425V.

dug out my build notes and I show 433vdc at the B+ tap. I'm using a WPT100 FW, BIG filter caps. FWIW the OT is Wo22889 into 8ohms

Johntb · « **Reply #34 on:** December 13, 2017, 06:19:00 am »

Many thanks to all.

The guy I was supposed to build this for called last night and cancelled.

Thankfully I haven't spent anything yet. I had almost all caps and pots already. I was actually going to order a bunch of stuff today. So now I'll just take a little more time to build it for myself instead.

I'll probably add a reverb to it. I picked up a bunch of PT, OT, reverb tanks and even a nice Vox AC30 2x12 cab that would fit this build nicely.

Thanks again,
John

frankenxtein · « **Reply #35 on:** January 22, 2018, 11:10:51 am »

If I wanted to put a one tube reverb , where would I put it? A mixing resistor at the effects loop? I've built one like the drawing kagliostro posted. Works pretty good

VMS · « **Reply #36 on:** January 22, 2018, 01:05:17 pm »

You could probably take the signal after the volume pot and feed the return signal to the unused side of the phase inverter

...or if you have dwell pot then before the volume

tubenit · « **Reply #37 on:** January 23, 2018, 04:44:55 am »

There is ALOT of information about 1-tube reverbs in the ARCHIVES here:

http://el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=7957.0

In the first post of the 1-tube reverb thread, look at the "5879 Blues Amp" example of how the reverb is inserted after the volume pot and prior to the send of the passive FX. That is how I would personally do it.

NOTE that there is a 150k (mixing) resistor after the volume pot in the 5879 Blues Amp & that the Clubman also has a 150k resistor after the volume pot. Because the 1-tube reverb uses a 1MA or 2.2MA reverb pot, the 150k mixing resistor seems to work fine in my experience.

With respect, Tubenit

sluckey · « **Reply #38 on:** January 23, 2018, 06:12:30 am »

Quote

You could probably take the signal after the volume pot and feed the return signal to the unused side of the phase inverter

I've been intrigued by this idea ever since seeing the Chieftain schematic. Very simple idea and should work well. No lossy mixing resistor involved. I'd definitely try this. You can always change over to the lossy mixing resistor if not satisfied.

Look at the Chieftain schematic to see how easy this is...

http://el34world.com/charts/Schematics/files/matchless/matchless_chieftan.pdf
http://el34world.com/charts/Schematics/files/matchless/matchless_clubman.pdf

frankenxtein · « **Reply #39 on:** January 24, 2018, 04:53:21 am »

Thank you all for the input on the reverb idea , built this one for my son. It's a really quiet amp up till now

I could do a bigger reverb circuit but , knowledge and real estate is limited.

kreso · « **Reply #40 on:** January 30, 2018, 11:42:52 am »

I made Clubman based amp with single tube reverb and there is more then enough reverb. Did use mixing resistors though.

darkbluemurder · « **Reply #41 on:** February 01, 2018, 03:41:34 am »

Nice amp - true to style I would say!

I was long undecided whether to build a Clubman or Chieftain and in the end opted for the Chieftain (without reverb). That was the third amp I built and it is still one of my favorites - not many tweaks made on this amp. But there may still be a Clubman build in my future.

Have fun with the amp,
Stephan

kreso · « **Reply #42 on:** February 01, 2018, 02:47:24 pm »

Thanks Stephan!

Every time dilemma when a man start to build a new amp, isn't it? Chieftain is very nice choice.

Did made few changes on this one as well. I placed six way rotary switch like on DC-30 channel 2 and cathode/fixed bias switch.
Together with reverb it turned out really versatile amp.

UpperPacificSweaterRock · « **Reply #43 on:** September 20, 2020, 05:22:20 pm »

Hey y'all,

First post here after many years of being a lurker. It seems that the first schematic that appears in the thread has the power supply nodes for the Phase Inverter and the 12AX7 gain stage wired in reverse, which may be causing headaches for some folks (including myself). They look like they are backwards:

This power supply is incorrect I believe
A - OT Centertap (Yes)
B - Power Tube Screens (Yes)
C - Phase Inverter Plates (No)
D - EF86 Gain Stage (Yes)
E - 12AX7 Gain Stage (No)

This power supply is correct after cross-referencing the other schematic I believe
A - OT Centertap (Yes)
B - Power Tube Screens (Yes)
C - 12AX7 Gain Stage (Yes)
D - EF86 Gain Stage (Yes)
E - Phase Inverter (Yes)

Hopefully that clears it up some!

bmccowan · « **Reply #44 on:** September 20, 2020, 05:57:55 pm »

I'm confused. The first schematic posted does not have an EF86. I've built a Clubman 6V6 so curious as to what you are pointing to?

shooter · « **Reply #45 on:** September 20, 2020, 06:31:36 pm »

it's a 10yr old completed thread, confused, well just herbally happy?

UpperPacificSweaterRock · « **Reply #46 on:** September 21, 2020, 01:32:10 pm »

Quote from: bmccowan on September 20, 2020, 05:57:55 pm

I'm confused. The first schematic posted does not have an EF86. I've built a Clubman 6V6 so curious as to what you are pointing to?

The power supply nodes C and E are reversed on the first VIEWABLE (sorry) schematic posted with the provided voltage table. Perhaps the voltages on the table are right, but the letter C should be feeding the first gain stage's parallel'd 12AX7 triodes (off the 220k resistor) and the letter E should be feeding the phase inverter plates (off the 6.8K resistor).

The schematic with the nodes referenced with COLORS as opposed to the LETTERS is correct, I believe (I highly doubt the plates of the phase inverter are being feed 413v from that node with a dropping resistor that large). Perhaps I will write up a schematic in the coming days to clarify when I finish the project in front of me.

bmccowan · « **Reply #47 on:** September 21, 2020, 03:25:23 pm »

Yes - I believe you are right. I referenced the schematic with the color codes when I built mine since I was using a 6SH7 in V2 position. Correcting the schematic for others, is a good mission. If you will do it in ExpressSCH the schematic I drew up may help cut and paste. Although the tube lineup is 6SL7>6SH7>6SL7>2x6V6.
And I think the schematic named Matchvox Niteclub Guy also has the correct nodes - it's also a 6v6 version but the preamp is all 9pin.

frankenxtein · « **Reply #48 on:** November 13, 2021, 10:22:41 am »

Realize this is a older thread but , it has lots of good info.
I decided to use a little reverb pedal in the effects loop. I had punched the holes for the send and return jacks just hadn't put jacks in there. I like it so much I just ordered a couple more ef86 tubes from Ukraine.

Had people tell me that that effects loop was lame but , it works quite well with a little Sonicake reverb pedal.

I built the Matchless Clubman in 2017 for my son and he was liking my 5e5 Reverb a bit too much.

The little pedal makes it a little more lively but , we haven't tried anything else in the loop.

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Author Topic: New project: Matchless Clubman 35 (Now with schematic and voltages) (Read 24299 times)