replacement bridge for US tele

[CraigB]

I bought a Joe Barden compensated 3-saddle bridge for my late '90s american tele.  I can recommend this bridge.  A huge improvement over the flat plate with the chunky steel saddles.  A couple of caveats, though.  First, I ditched the stock pickup and put in a duncan 5-2, used an Esquire pickguard, so no neck pickup.  I realize that in itself had a lot to do with the change in tone plugged in.  But I know this guitar, and it just sounds tons better without even being plugged in.  Second, the mounting screws were small compared to the stock ones.  The original bridge has three mounting holes, but the Barden has four, so I used two of the original screws on the outside holes, and two of the smaller ones that came with the bridge on the inner holes I had to drill.  Third, the setscrews for the A, D, G and B saddles were like a mile high once the guitar was set up, so I had to remove them one at a time a file the bottoms off so they'd sit flush at the top of the saddle.

Anyone else tried one of these?

[G._Hoffman]

That is my favorite Tele bridge.  I was expecting this to be a question about which bridge to get, and I was going to recommend the Joe Barden.



Gabriel

[FYL]

I bought a Joe Barden compensated 3-saddle bridge for my late '90s american tele.

Your Tele is designed with a modern American Standard bridge with a long plate, 6 low saddles and 5 mounting points (2 at the top, 3 at the bottom), the JB is designed for vintage-style Tele's, it's a shorter bridge with 3 high saddles and 4 mounting points... Those bridges aren't supposed to be interchangable.

I would have used a Gotoh or a GFS, or going high end a Callaham or a Glendale.

Anyone else tried one of these?

Really nice stuff, decently priced thru Allparts. I've got one on my Barden Partscaster.

[CraigB]

FYL, it's specifically made to replace the long plate stock unit.  Sorry, I didn't make that clear.  Check the JB website, you can find it there.  Attached is a photo of a guy's guitar I spotted on the telecaster forums with this bridge installed.

I also think I was mistaken as to the year it was made.  Z1 is the first two characters of the serial no.  That would be 2001?

Your Tele is designed with a modern American Standard bridge with a long plate, 6 low saddles and 5 mounting points (2 at the top, 3 at the bottom

My stock bridge only had three mounting holes.

[FYL]

it's specifically made to replace the long plate stock unit.

Then it should mount directly, no?

Z1 is the first two characters of the serial no.  That would be 2001?

Z1 : American Standard series, manufactured from late Q1 2001 to early Q2 2002 (there's substantial overlap in Fender year/serial numbers).

My stock bridge only had three mounting holes.

Yup, just like most stock bridges.

[CraigB]

FYL thanks for the info on the date codes.  I went to Fender's product dating site and it shows the Z prefix as denoting the new millenium, but also:  "As always, there is typically some number prefix overlap and carryover from year to year."

the JB is designed for vintage-style Tele's, it's a shorter bridge with 3 high saddles and 4 mounting points... Those bridges aren't supposed to be interchangable.

Again, I didn't use a vintage style Barden bridge (pictured below).  I used the one Barden makes for Am Std guitars (also pictured below).  

Then it should mount directly, no?

That's fair.  I'll say "yes and "no".  Though, remember, I did already point that out as being, IMO, one of the downers of the product in my original post.  Why four mounting holes as opposed to three?  I don't know, you'd have to ask Barden.  I'm assuming that some Am Std guitar must've had a bridge with four mounting holes, but again, I don't know.  Other than that, it fits the guitar, unlike the vintage unit.

I think I fairly pointed out the good and bad, and that was the purpose in starting the thread in the first place.  The bottom line outcome is for $50 (as opposed to more than double that for the Callaham and even more for the Glendale) I feel I have WAY improved the tone of my guitar.

Craig

[FYL]

The bottom line outcome is for $50 (as opposed to more than double that for the Callaham and even more for the Glendale) I feel I have WAY improved the tone of my guitar.

Agreed, the Barden is a really nice bridge, now fairly priced thru Allparts (the pre-Barden Engineering version was more expensive than the equivalent Callaham).

Re. Glendale, yes Dale Clark should check what his competitors do and reprice some of his parts - but there's worse : have a look at Vintique. Jay Monterose lists his Tele bridge at a cool $250.

[CraigB]

That said, I think had I known in advance that I'd be so pleased, I would've considered the Callaham or Glendale, either one.  It's a very nice guitar, and I would've preferred not to have to drill those holes...although I notice the pricier Vintique for Am Std product also has the four hole configuration????  So there I am, drilling into the guitar again!

This goes back about five, six years for me.  When I bought the guitar I just loved how it played, still do, but have always wished it would have all those weird overtones (and just plain better tone) like my vintage-style teles have.  So I called a guy I used to deal with a lot for guitar and amp parts and asked him if he knew of anyone that made a vintage style 3-saddle that fits the newer guitars.  I was greeted with, "Well if you want a vintage tele, you better get rid of that piece of junk you've got and get the real thing.  There is no such thing as you're talking about, and there probably never will be."  Whoa!  That was an earful.  Then about a year after that conversation, I happened upon Vintique on the internet, and later Callaham.  Vintique was always out of the question, and the price tag of the Callaham without knowing what I'd end up with tonewise has kept me debating "yea" or "nay" for a long time...  

As an aside, it seems that guy was wrong, wasn't he? as there is now at least four options for players at three different price ranges.

Thanks - Craig

[jjasilli]

My nephew lives around the corner from this gent, who I never heard of.  He's using titanium hardware.  Anyone ever hear of this?

http://www.detempleguitars.com/temp/intro_1.php

[CraigB]

Whoa!  That guy makes some sweet-looking guitars.  He also has quite a background.  And a pretty nice website too.  Interesting - thanks jjasilli.

I hadn't really heard about titanium saddles until I read about them on Glendale Guitars' website.  According to the Glendale website, the tone of titanium saddles is comparable to brass, "but with added sparkle".

A brief search just now turned up a company called tisonix which makes all-titanium tele bridges, vintage looking ones, and really modern looking ones for vintage style guitars.  I thought Vintique was expensive!

Another company, KTS, makes titanium saddles for teles. 

There's probably more out there, but those were "front-page".

Craig

[G._Hoffman]

I've seen titanium hardware before, but I've never actually tried it.  Seem unreasonably expensive to me.  There is also a fair bit of aluminum hardware out there, which is usually pretty expensive.


Gabriel

[Justa]

I am curious about these compensated saddles but have never had the opportunity to try one.  When I originally got my first Tele the intonation errors with the 3 barrel bridge I would up trashing it due to the intonation errors.  Got a Fender 6 mini barrel bridge with the long set screws, got the intonation perfect but I would not recommend that bridge to anyone (barrels flip when you change strings).

How close can you get the intonation on that compensated Barden between string pairs on each barrel, especially the middle barrel with a solid third and round wound fourth if that is what you are using.  Can you ever hear the error when you are playing clean up on the neck?

Thanks

[CraigB]

I've used them ever since I heard they were available.  You can get real close.  There are a few things to consider.  I've installed the generic ones, and I've found that the flat ends of the barrels need to also be cut or filed to complimentary angles so the saddles can pass back and forth by one another and sit perfectly together wherever you need to set them.  As with everything, a little goes a long way, so it may take time to file a little, check for fit, file some more, etc., in order to get the angles right so it does not look like a hack job.  The Barden saddles have the angles already cut, and it appears from the pictures I've seen the Callaham and Glendale saddles are also angled to fit together, so that's not an issue.  I already mentioned earlier that the bottoms of the hex set-screws in the Barden product had to be cut shorter so the tops didn't stick up right into where you rest your palm.  So that was a small issue to be dealt with.

Other parts of the guitar as you know can cause things to be out of whack.  You can set a string to ring open and intonate perfectly at the 12th fret, but if you have a shallow nut slot (meaning not cut deep enough) on that string, it can be annoyingly sharp at say the 1st thru 5th fret.  Neck relief plays a role, too.  Also, you don't want the saddle set with either side too high or too low, because with that incline, you may find your stings slipping "downhill".  

All things considered, if it's set up properly you'll love the three-saddle over the six, tonewise and intonation-wise.  Well, it may bug you a little if you're used to playing a guitar with the Buzz Feiten tuning system  

[G._Hoffman]

Oh, you can get perfect intonation with the old ones - you just have to grab the barrel and kind of twist it.  It bends the screw and all, but you end up with perfect intonation. 

That being said, I much prefer to use the Barden bridge.  You don't need to bend any screws.


Gabriel

[CraigB]

you just have to grab the barrel and kind of twist it.  It bends the screw and all, but you end up with perfect intonation.

Ha, that's what I used to do! 

So, Justa, what you do is you get it as close as possible to playing in-tune, knowing which way you're going to make the twist and where you hope for it to wind up.  The screw bends fairly easily.  Use a pair of pliers with the jaws wrapped in a couple winds of electrical tape so the pliers won't bite the brass barrel.  If you have really strong fingers, you may even be able to do it without any pliers.  Once the screw is bent, you can still make a gross adjustment of full-turns on the screw, but no super-fine tuning, and you can usually only go forward with the saddle because of the bent threads.  So if you wind up too sharp, take a careful measurement of where you made the bend for reference, grab another screw, set the saddle a little further back this time and try again.  It really does work, but a bit of a hassle until you've done it a few times to get the hang of it.  The screws are cheap, so you could probably ruin a few and finally get it set up as close to perfect as possible and only dent your wallet a few bucks.  Of course, if you don't have your old saddles anymore, you'll want to just spend the $20 or $30 for the nice compensated set.  Either way, you'll be a lot happier - Craig

[G._Hoffman]

you just have to grab the barrel and kind of twist it.  It bends the screw and all, but you end up with perfect intonation.

Ha, that's what I used to do! 

So, Justa, what you do is you get it as close as possible to playing in-tune, knowing which way you're going to make the twist and where you hope for it to wind up.  The screw bends fairly easily.  Use a pair of pliers with the jaws wrapped in a couple winds of electrical tape so the pliers won't bite the brass barrel.  If you have really strong fingers, you may even be able to do it without any pliers.  Once the screw is bent, you can still make a gross adjustment of full-turns on the screw, but no super-fine tuning, and you can usually only go forward with the saddle because of the bent threads.  So if you wind up too sharp, take a careful measurement of where you made the bend for reference, grab another screw, set the saddle a little further back this time and try again.  It really does work, but a bit of a hassle until you've done it a few times to get the hang of it.  The screws are cheap, so you could probably ruin a few and finally get it set up as close to perfect as possible and only dent your wallet a few bucks.  Of course, if you don't have your old saddles anymore, you'll want to just spend the $20 or $30 for the nice compensated set.  Either way, you'll be a lot happier - Craig

Our shop manager just uses his fingers.  Given the value the vintage idiots are putting on original screws (and pots, and switches, and solder joints, etc.), I'd rather use a Barden bridge, and keep the original stuff in good shape.


Gabriel

[FYL]

All things considered, if it's set up properly you'll love the three-saddle over the six, tonewise and intonation-wise.  Well, it may bug you a little if you're used to playing a guitar with the Buzz Feiten tuning system 

I've seen an old-style Tele (vintage bridge with bog standard barrels) fitted with an Earvana nut...
 

[G._Hoffman]

All things considered, if it's set up properly you'll love the three-saddle over the six, tonewise and intonation-wise.  Well, it may bug you a little if you're used to playing a guitar with the Buzz Feiten tuning system

The Buzz Feiten thing makes the way I play sound really out of tune, so I've got to go with the Barden's intonation sounding better.


Gabriel

[Justa]

Also, you don't want the saddle set with either side too high or too low, because with that incline, you may find your stings slipping "downhill".

I think my old Tele has a 7.25” radius neck.  The slope angle at the bridge on mine from strings 1-2 and 5-6 looks very extreme compared to an American Standard.

So will I need string retainer grooves rather than smooth barrels?

All things considered, if it's set up properly you'll love the three-saddle over the six, tone wise and intonation-wise.  Well, it may bug you a little if you're used to playing a guitar with the Buzz Feiten tuning system.

I am used to playing a Feiten electric but truthfully I have forgotten to reset the offets on my tuner when playing live many times and never noticed the difference.  This is only a couple of cents though.

Oh, you can get perfect intonation with the old ones - you just have to grab the barrel and kind of twist it.  It bends the screw and all, but you end up with perfect intonation.

Unfortunately I tossed the both the old bridge and saddles both.  It was decades ago before I knew any better.  I now treat ever new guitar like it might become a vintage someday.  If I live to 100 I will be rich!

[CraigB]

Justa, my '50's tele has the hard radius and it has steeper slopes on the E-B and E-A barrels, so until the string actually digs into the brass a bit, it does have a tendency to slip.   I notice the callaham saddles have the tops carved but it's hard to tell if that's just the compensation or if that's to prevent slippage.

[G._Hoffman]

Also, you don't want the saddle set with either side too high or too low, because with that incline, you may find your stings slipping "downhill".

I think my old Tele has a 7.25” radius neck.  The slope angle at the bridge on mine from strings 1-2 and 5-6 looks very extreme compared to an American Standard.

So will I need string retainer grooves rather than smooth barrels?

If you have a problem, take it to a good luthier and have them notch the saddles.  Its a quick easy just if you have the nut files, and it would probably cost less to have it done than to buy the files.


Gabriel

[jjasilli]

If you have a problem, take it to a good luthier and have them notch the saddles.  Its a quick easy just if you have the nut files, and it would probably cost less to have it done than to buy the files.

I must be a real Klutz.  I have nut files and the Stew-Mac string spacing tool.  I'm just not good at fine tooling.

[madison]

All things considered, if it's set up properly you'll love the three-saddle over the six, tonewise and intonation-wise.  Well, it may bug you a little if you're used to playing a guitar with the Buzz Feiten tuning system  

I've seen an old-style Tele (vintage bridge with bog standard barrels) fitted with an Earvana nut...
 

I have an Earvana nut on my 86 Greco LP copy and absolutely love it.
Great intonation all the way up the neck.
One of the best $30 I've ever spent.

I may do it on my tele too that is, after I replace the bridge.