Billy Jean Blues on C-4 Special

[jojokeo]

Hi all,
I figured I'd share a sound sample of my very first amp that I designed & built about a year and a half ago (I think I've made 5 others since). I call it the C-4 Special since it was originally based on the old VOX AC-4 and right about that time, they had just come out w/ their new version - the AC-4 Heritage. I had just joined this forum at that time and there was very little info that I could find anywhere in designing an amp using the EF86 pentode. Anyway, the amp is only the pentode to CF stage going into a single EL84 - pre SoHo and 5879T/Little Wing builds that are most current and that are similar.
I made the song Billy Jean based off of Chris Cornell's version only week's before Michael Jackson died. It was kind of eary for me and I was in Cancun when that occured but that's another story. It's a little intimidating putting any song links on this site because there's so many of you good players and builders out there but what the heck?
For the song, I only used a line out that I'd made at the time and didn't have a microphone to get the true sound of the amp but it's fairly representable. The signal was a bit hot too going into the computer & I improvised the solo just to get a quick down & dirty test to see how things would work out so no big production value here, lol.  I hope the link works and suggestions are always welcome.

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7706724

Joe

[CraigB]

Hey, that's pretty cool!  My only suggestion would be if you can get a mike and mix the direct signal with that, you'd have some more dimension and could get even more expressive than it already is.  Or use the direct for the rhythm and miked for the lead track, or vice-versa.  I do that a lot.  BUT, I've also been down this road, you've got two great sounds, and try to mix them together and one phase cancels the other.  That's another story.  Another thing I sometimes use is miking the front AND back of the speaker cabinet.  I've got a couple SM57s, no fancy stuff at all.

From a playing standpoint, very nice dynamics and touch, so you should feel confident to post links to more of your stuff in the future!

Regards,
Craig

[jojokeo]

Thanks Craig I appreciate the time you took to give me some feedback that I can try to apply in the future. I have a couple of different microphones and since the recording I got a Sennheiser e609 evolution specifically for miking amp cabs and am still getting accustomed to it. I also have a couple of other types which one is a Digital Refrence dynamic and the other is a Tascam electret condenser. I don't know much about these and if they would work very well or one better than the other? I like your suggestions on doing both miking and direct input. I'm really inexperienced w/ recording stuff. I really wish I could spend more time at it. I've always wanted to make a drum track w/ a rhythem track like what Doug's done and others. This would be my goal to be able to create my own songs in a similar way as if I had a band backing me. I play much better when I have a little support or maybe it's that I don't sound as bad when the focus isn't so much on every note and sound I make, lol?
About my equipment/recording software - I have a CuBase program w/ a PreSonus module for two guitar inputs and two balanced microphone inputs and/or on the back it has two rca inputs for piano or other device to go into the computer via a firewire connection. Thanks again for the suggestions.

[EL34]

I find it difficult to record by miking live amps.

I take the lazy way out and use Guitar Rig.

Craig does an awesome job with his recordings.
I don't have the time, the proper space or the desire to go through all that monkey business. 

It sure sounds good when it is done right though.
Keep on what you are doing, it gets better with every recording you do.

[Madison]

>>Craig does an awesome job with his recordings.

He sure does!
GR sounds great too.

>>you've got two great sounds, and try to mix them together and one phase cancels the other.

Craig, may I ask what do you do about this?
Re-record?
Software fix?
Mute one of the front/rear mics in the mix?

Jojo, nice technique and touch.

[jojokeo]

>I find it difficult to record by miking live amps.
I'm learning this the hard way, very time consuming.

>I take the lazy way out and use Guitar Rig.
I have JamVox, I think it's close to Gtr Rig? Maybe I'll use that more for recording songs?

>Keep on what you are doing, it gets better with every recording you do.
I think you're right. It helps to hear one's self when NOT actively playing and to be your own harshest critic. You don't hear yourself the same when you're playing and can hear so many mistakes that need to be worked on w/ timing, accents, poor fretting, wrong notes, holding the notes, etc...this is when I realize the truth in my playing. It can be humbling, dissapointing, frustrating, & disheartening. It reminds me of a saying in another hobby I have, "good things take time and bad things happen fast."

[CraigB]

It helps to hear one's self when NOT actively playing and to be your own harshest critic.

Guys, I REALLY appreciate the compliments, but it's true, we're all our own worst critics, right?  It's like hearing a recording of your own voice - "That's really what I sound like?"  It's SO easy to be overly critical of little mistakes and sloppiness, or whatever, during the recording process.  Sometimes it helps to just save the session and move on to something else, then come back and listen to it after some time has passed, like a week or two.  You may not even remember what it was you didn't like.  You may find it's not bad, just needs a punch in or an edit here and there.  You may want to re-record the whole thing for whatever reason, and that's OK.  Either way, I find the critique of myself to be a lot more fair if I let it sit for awhile then come back to it.

Craig, may I ask what do you do about this?
Re-record?
Software fix?
Mute one of the front/rear mics in the mix?

Do the front/rear muting first - just a quick A/B comparison, then both mikes on and you should be able to tell if there's cancelling.  Then just to be sure, do a "warmup" take and playback, rather than spend hours getting the playing perfect and then discovering there's a problem.  It may not be cancelling  per se, just that a new track does not sit well with another track.  Re-record?  Yes, I've had to do that.  Software fix?  If you mean trying to EQ the problem away and/or panning, that can sometimes work, but fixing it in the mix can be very frustrating, so it's much better to get things sounding the way you want as you build tracks instead of later IMO.  Monkey business?  Yes.  I AM going to get Guitar Rig.

Regards,
Craig

[EL34]

Yes.  I AM going to get Guitar Rig.

You will really like it, but wait for them to get Guitar rig 4 fixed.
It got a bunch of annoying bugs that Guitar rig 3 di not have.

I have 4, but I still use 3

[jojokeo]

Doug, is JamVox similar to Guitar Rig do you think? I imagine that GR has those drum tracks included that you use besides the various amp/cab/effects chain sims?

**Here's a huge question I've always wondered - since I'm not a drummer I've always had trouble trying to make a drum track. So I would just make a guitar track or two like you heard earlier. But w/out the drum track you can't stay on time w/ the beat. So that means I have to make the drum track first correct?!? Then lay down the basic rhythem track(s) and build the solos, bass, etc. from there? For me this has always been like the "chicken or the egg" question and thus my recording dilemma.   

[jojokeo]

It helps to hear one's self when NOT actively playing and to be your own harshest critic.

Guys, I REALLY appreciate the compliments, but it's true, we're all our own worst critics, right?  It's like hearing a recording of your own voice - "That's really what I sound like?"  It's SO easy to be overly critical of little mistakes and sloppiness, or whatever, during the recording process.  Sometimes it helps to just save the session and move on to something else, then come back and listen to it after some time has passed, like a week or two.  You may not even remember what it was you didn't like.  You may find it's not bad, just needs a punch in or an edit here and there.  You may want to re-record the whole thing for whatever reason, and that's OK.  Either way, I find the critique of myself to be a lot more fair if I let it sit for awhile then come back to it.

Craig, I totally agree about letting the time pass before being too hard on yourself and it reminds me of two instances that I draw from to keep perspective on this:

1. My dad was a great jazz/blues piano player w/ a very unique style playing bass lines and chords w/ the left hand while soloing and doing voicings w/ the right along w/ a great sense of timing that was infectuous. EVerytime others heard him play he got great compliments and you could see them tapping their feet or smiling or stop what they were doing to watch & listen. Yet, he was always complaining that he was so close to "getting it" to HIS satisfaction and I'm a pretty discriminate listener. I would tell him, "I can't hear anything or only hear a thing here or there" but nothing close to his own criticism. We talked about this all the time when I would encourage him to play out more for people/clubs. He had a great talent that needed to be shared but he limited himself & people being able to hear him. Sorry I don't mean this to sound self-serving or go on long but am putting out a point that we shouldn't be too critical because others don't even know or hear or care about most of all the "screw up" subtlties that we make. Plus if we have a talent - like you do and Doug also - that it should be shared w/ many people not kept private and not shared. This may not apply to you or Doug as I don't know you guys and your personal lives but it's still a good lesson & concept for others that may read this.

2- I have a musician friend trying to "make it" in Tenessee and we've also talked about this stuff. He had a great story of a really good guitar player friend of his that could play so well and many enjoyed to see him in that area all the time. When he was through w/ his set or after the gig was over and they talked, there was an occasion when he was so happy & ecstatic saying, "man, I only made about 12 or 15 mistakes tonight!!!" My friend laughing told me that he didn't even hear ONE of them and how great he always plays and sounds.
This is was helped get me out of my shell and to stop worrying about the mistakes and instead embrace them. It really free'd me up in a lot of ways and I'm not so serious or insecure w/ my playing like I used to be.

I hope this helps in some small way? - Joe

[EL34]

Guitar rig is a Huge Guitar amp, guitar effects, and amp cabinet simulator program.
There's no drum loops, you use a drum program Like Beatcraft to do that.

I have info and links on my sound recording page here.
 http://www.el34world.com/Misc/Music/music1.htm

Play a few of the tunes to listen to the wide range of sounds I use in Guitar rig.

[Dynaflow]

 Shoot sometimes the mistakes ARE the cool stuff. I recorded a few things where I was feeling good and playing over my head a bit and made mistakes, but on listening to them back, they sounded like a jazz lick that I intended to do. I even saw a larry carlton article once where he said, just play it a second time and people will think you intended it. (From his playing I can hardly imagine anything him doing being much of a mistake). Heck ole BB misses that octave he means to hit up the neck about 50% of the time and its always funny cause you hear him audibly go 'Ohhh' but he don't let him get him down none. I know theres many times where on a particular gig I'd tell my wife, man I gave myself a b or c+ tonight, she's like 'What? Baby you were smoking tonight" (nice to have people that love you heh), but agreed we're our harshest critics and I guess the trick is not to let it get to your head so much.

Regards,

Dyna

[jojokeo]

I know theres many times where on a particular gig I'd tell my wife, man I gave myself a b or c+ tonight, she's like 'What? Baby you were smoking tonight" (nice to have people that love you heh)

My wife IS my harshest critic!  She's always there to keep me centered. Gives it to me when I'm feeling too good and picks me up when things can be down. 

Good to hear other's stories on this, thanks Dyna