SoZo electrolytics

[FYL]

SoZo has done it again with their Royal 67, a 100µF/350V cap targeted at Marshall builds and restorations.



From their spec blurb: "SoZo's single 100uf radial electrolytic super cap is named the Royal 67. It is modeled precisely after the vintage Hunts™ / Eire™ / RS™ capacitors found in the 1967/68 10xxx and 12xxx series of 100 watt Marshalls. It is called a super cap because of its amazing ratings; modern electrolytic capacitors are rated for 2000 hours, the SoZo Royal 67 can operate for 10 years straight - 87,650 hours. It is a standard 1 3/8" diameter so it can be used in place of the 50x50 capacitors found in the later Marshalls."

http://www.sozoamplification.com/royal67_purchase.html

Now, let's have a serious look at this cap : 55° temp rating (!), a strobe discharge life test - this is a friggin photoflash/strobe cap, designed for fast DC high current discharge, with very poor ripple current handling. Such caps should *never* be used in the first stage of a power supply.

And from where are they sourced? EIA code 658 = Sangamo, part of CDE since 1987 or so. And yes, it's a CDE ST101V360J042 photoflash cap, cf. the datasheet at http://www.cde.com/catalogs/ST.pdf

"modeled precisely after the vintage Hunts™ / Eire™ / RS™ capacitors"? Oh, yeah, the form factor is nearly the same...

[phsyconoodler]

Too much mis-information and hype can make for disaster in an amplifier.   55 degree?????  I don't like to use less than 105 degree.
 
  But...take some old vintage amps.They used some pretty low grade(by today's standards) capacitors and they last a long,long time.
So who's to say these caps won't be just fine?
  But photoflash caps?I'm thinking Sozo may know something beyond the numbers.

[tommytornado]

55C = 133 degree fahrenheit.

[phsyconoodler]

Far too low for a tube guitar amp.The damn temperature inside a 100 watt Marshall head is constantly over 133 F.More like 150 F.

 

[FYL]

55 degree?????  I don't like to use less than 105 degree.
 

Yup. Caps should be rated at 85 or 105° C, depending on the application.
 

  But...take some old vintage amps.They used some pretty low grade(by today's standards) capacitors and they last a long,long time.
So who's to say these caps won't be just fine?

Photoflash caps are designed for pure DC applications, don't handle any significant ripple current, have a very poor thermal behavior, show a highish DF even if they are optimized for minimum inductance. Filtering caps work on pulsated DC, with a high ripple content - typically a few dozens of volts at 2A or more, are usually well balanced thermally (Sprague Atom's are one of the few exceptions) and show a low DF.

Using a photoflash for ripple filtering is technically stupid.

I'm thinking Sozo may know something beyond the numbers.

The numbers add up pretty well: you can buy the original CDE for $6 or so, the SoZo lists for $20.

[FYL]

Far too low for a tube guitar amp.

85° C is a minimum.

[Geezer]

Even the cheapo Weber e-caps are rated @105°C

[RicharD]

Replicating caps of yester-year seems foolish to me.  Back in the day, caps were expensive and noisy.  I understand and enjoy the idea of using a tube rectifier for sag characteristics, but using a 55C caps seems like begging for trouble.  I have never been able to bring myself to purchase Sozo caps.  My amplifier budget has grown limited and I just can't justify the additional expense.  Maybe somebody will ask me to install them someday and I'll order some extras for dissection.

[HotBluePlates]

"modeled precisely after the vintage Hunts™ / Eire™ / RS™ capacitors"

That should be "Erie" as in one of the Great Lakes in the U.S. rather than "Eire" as in Ireland. Which is amusing since this is all so obviously targeted to a Marshall crowd.

55C = 133 degree fahrenheit.

The damn temperature inside a 100 watt Marshall head is constantly over 133 F.More like 150 F.

To be fair, most of these caps are going to be mounted so they feel the ambient air temperature more than the internal temperature.

However... when I got to Kuwait, enroute to Iraq, the ambient temperature was almost 120 F, and that's without tube electronics throwing off some heat.  

Really though, you might mount these caps near a rectifier or output tube, so the heating of the cap is much more than you would think. Or inside a poorly-ventilated cabinet, which again leads to higher heating. And just because the max temperature is given on the cap doesn't mean that everything is kosher until that temperature is reached; caps are usually derated on various specs prior to the maximum being reached.

Anyway, anyone who is not a component manufacturer is just going to be relabeling someone else's product, possibly with extra testing to meet some spec. This means that you're paying extra mostly just to have a certain company's name on the wrapper.

The radio restoration guys are starting to seem very smart when they hollow out old caps and restuff with modern caps, or take an old cap label and apply it to a new cap. It is very common for them to begin restoration of any old gear by replacing every cap, since the ones that aren't leaky now will wind up leaky later. It follows that they buy so many caps that they don't go for the specialty-label voodoo stuff. They also despise some caps as being horribly unreliable that are prized in the hi-fi and guitar communties. I find that interesting...

{EDIT: broken Italic tag -- PRR}

[bigdaddy]

I always thought that those Marshalls sounded best right before they blew up. So maybe Sozo is try to recreate that special sound of a Marshall right before it goes POP.

Seriously who knows what they are thinking and how much they tested them. I really do trust the guys here and would believe y'all before some small company trying to make a name for themselves and money.

I use their handmade tone/coupling caps and they sound GREAT.

But this does sound really hinky.

If I were a serious builder of amps I would find out...............

[FYL]

I have never been able to bring myself to purchase Sozo caps.

I did some proper double blind tests a while back - the panel included 22n, 47n and 100n 400 to 630V caps from ETR (OEM to CDE), Mallory, Mullard (NOS), Roederstein, SoZo and TAD (Mullard mustard cap repros). No significant measurable difference, strictly no subjective difference. But there's one big difference : the ETR are vastly less expensive than so-called high end caps...

[tubesornothing]

... proper double blind tests a while back ...

really?  That must have been a bunch of work - how did you set that up?  Did you have a lot of participants?  What kind of a circuit did you use for testing?

[FYL]

Recorded 24/192 signal => analog out => simple testing amp platform including DUT => 24/192 sound card => digital capture
Just change the DUT, repeat.

Then captured samples => PC-based AB/ABX comparator => 24/192 sound card => analog out = > high quality hifi amp & speakers.

Plus the usual measurements using a Sencore LC-53 as well as a PC-based FFT system.

[tubesornothing]

Any chance you can share the sound files?  It'd be interesting to listen to.  What kind of circuit  (e.g. coupling cap, tone cap, cathode bypass)?

[jerrydyer]

why do I spend the majority of my day on the sites that do not give me the goods like this. 

[phsyconoodler]

Because the gear page ain't Hoffman amps forum.'Nuff said.

  And doing tests on different coupling caps is subjective.Many sound quite different and do float some people's boat.But it really is funny how the differences can be subtle and can easily change from day to day.
  However,if a cap is bad sounding to start with,no amount of technique or sitting in a different spot or tone tweaking can make it sound better.And harmonics don't come easily with some either.
  So it's really a crap shoot.Use what makes you happy and has some range to it and you're good.

[FYL]

Any chance you can share the sound files?

I don't think that I've archived them.

What kind of circuit  (e.g. coupling cap, tone cap, cathode bypass)?

Coupling.

[RicharD]

>And doing tests on different coupling caps is subjective.

Watch this:

[FYL]

And doing tests on different coupling caps is subjective.Many sound quite different and do float some people's boat.But it really is funny how the differences can be subtle and can easily change from day to day.

Proper double blind tests eliminate a lot of false subjectivity. Then you can focus on the real differences, if any. 

So it's really a crap shoot.Use what makes you happy and has some range to it and you're good.

I'd say use whatever cap fits technically and physically, and maybe go for some fancy models if you or your customers feel better that way.

[FYL]

Watch this:

A classic...

[bluesbear]

Most of my best sounding amps were experiments using old stuff laying around and old square Xicon caps. I like 'em. I like Mallorys. I like Webers. I don't like Sprague but only because of the size. They sound fine. I don't understand the need for ultra expensive high fidelity caps in a low fidelity application. I'd rather save the money for great speakers.
Dave

[PRR]

> photoflash/strobe cap... Such caps should *never* be used in the first stage of a power supply.

It has worked for me, long-term.

Gotta respect the laws of physics though.

You can get very compact fotoflash caps. But in ripple-catching you can NOT get away with anything far smaller (physically) than you would use normally; you can't "save space".

> Photoflash caps are designed for pure DC applications, don't handle any significant ripple current

They handle a HUGE "ripple current" every time they flash. In still photography, that may be seldom. But airport and ambulance lights flash at high rates for extended times. Unlike our amps which only discharge 5% each cycle, a photoflash discharges to ZERO every time.

Photo-flash caps normally sit in a cool spot. Worst-case they jolt a 100 Amp flash many times a second; other photo-caps sit with only leakage for many minutes while the photographer sets up a shot. It IS very different duty, hard to define, but normally not "hot" duty. So temp rating (not limit) becomes a concern.

You can use 470uFd foto where you would use 40uFd classic can-cap.

> The damn temperature inside a 100 watt Marshall ....More like 150 F.
> enroute to Iraq, the ambient temperature was almost 120 F

150F is 65C. 120F is 50C.

The "temperature" on an e-cap is not a blow-up limit. Run it hotter, life is shorter. Roughly half for every 10 degrees C hotter. So a "55C" cap sure will work at 65C, for half the time.

But what IS the life-rating on this cap?? SoZo's "10 years" seems to be taken directly from CDE's blurb.... but CDE really says 30 million flashes then claims this is "more than ten years’ operation in emergency vehicles". Their graph for 10 million flashes at 6Hz covers about 19 days non-stop hard flashing. 30 million flashes at 2 per second, emergency vehicle rate, is 4,200 hours. Under the 10 year claim, that's 420 hours/year or about an hour a day.

The 6Hz full-discharge rate may be similar to 120Hz at 5% discharge (5% ripple). Taking this approximation, they say 10 million flashes for-sure, and typical 30 million flashes. That suggests 57 days non-stop. Over 10 years that is 5.7 days or 137 hours per year, 2.6 hours per week.

> Marshall ....More like 150 F.

And granting that, the life is half: 1.3 hours per week.

Another thing: a power supply cap "should not" fail short. The "100W" PT can deliver well over 1,000 Watts for many seconds, so a shorted cap leads to explosion or fire. A photo-flash cap charger must "start from zero" at every re-charge, is always current-limited in some way, will not go wild trying to charge a short.

All that said: in my opinion, that CDE cap will run hours a night every night for a decade, unless you jam it too close to the power tubes. It's a good cap, very conservatively specced, and it is plenty big enough.

$14 extra for SoZo logo and application warranty.... hmmmm.....

[bigdaddy]

I have to chime in here and say from the perspective of a guitar player, a serious blues and blues rock player I can feel as much of a difference as I hear it.

I use many techniques for vibrato, I use the pickups facing the speakers for special effects to get a little feedback of certain notes. A whole host of picking and finger techniques I developed over 40+ years of playing.

Sound is subjective that we all agree on but......when I plug a guitar into an amp it's how it feels and responds. Ask a race car driver about that, how his car handles on certain tracks and how the engineers listen to the driver out of respect and make changes to the engine, drive train and suspension, tires, excreta. So all the sound cards an graphs and tests mean nothing. When I turn the amp up and play the question is does the amp respond the way I want it to as well as the sound I get. Like an amp that's over filtered, I can feel the difference even more then hear it. I can feel the pull of the note as opposed to letting the note sing out a certain way. Some people like that feel , I don't.

So yes I really like the Jupiter and SOZO handmade caps. I can feel the difference as much as hear it. It subtle and I am sure many people cannot tell the difference, even many guitar players. I can and was shocked because at first I did NOT believe it, I was extremely skeptical. When I close my eyes and go into that special place, in the zone. I can only do that when the amp is cooking and maybe the band is cooking and I'm poring my heart and soul into a solo, yes indeed I can tell the difference.

[jjasilli]

>And doing tests on different coupling caps is subjective.

Watch this:

Thanks for re-posting this.  Lost track of it but now it's bookmarked. 

[bigdaddy]

Great stuff and in a way reinforces what I was saying about feel. I can feel how the amp responds to my playing, it's not with the ears only but a combination of things. When I bend a string and vibrato I know if there is a difference right away. I could tell since I was a teenager, right away, any difference or change or something that I didn't like because I could feel it first before I consciously recognized it. Yes I heard it first but my brain was taking the information and processing it differently then if I was JUST listening and not paying more attention to how the amp respond to my playing. When I play and check out an amp it's not like an audio engineer checking out different mic preamps. I'm plugged in and my body, mind and guitar become one.

The same goes for pickups. One idiot on the Webervst boards a few yeas ago swore all guitar pickups were the same and none had any difference. That is was all BS about the different wire and magnets and build. Well I can tell you everything matters, the type of wind, even the amount of insulation will change the tone of the pickup. I have probably spent almost as much money trying different pickups in my guitars as I have on amps. And for amps the different tubes changing the sound, tone, and most important for me feel of the amp.

[The_Gaz]

Big Daddy, get your feel (pun intended), but I don't think pickups and coupling caps are comparable. Most would agree that pickups change the sound, maybe even more so than speakers, but coupling caps? I still don't buy it, literally.

[tubesornothing]

>And doing tests on different coupling caps is subjective.

Watch this:

She totally gets my "engineer geek" motor running...  yum.

[tubesornothing]

The same goes for pickups.

Pickups are HUGE effect on tone.  I gotta box filled with them, but I have the ones I love in my guitars.

[RicharD]

I'm gonna back Bigdaddy on the feel thang.  That's where all the magic happens.  Mojo is much more about the relationship between person and instruments and not how much you spent on caps, but if you feel it's important to use big blue transformers, then you probably should.  Years ago, many people were trying to make the perfect amplifier.  Finally the Princeton Reverb was born and one might think it would end there but no.  That dang Mesa Boogie fella went and hot rodded the already perfect amp and the boutique circus began.

Ironically, today I broke out an amp I built quite a while ago and hadn't played in months.  Immediately I thought to myself, "this isn't how I remember it sounding."   When I built it, I thought it was the baked potato loaded with extra bacon bits.  Today I almost popped the hood on it to add some salt & pepper.

[FYL]

It has worked for me, long-term.

Provided that you've suitably derated them.

They handle a HUGE "ripple current" every time they flash.

Fast charge/discharge <> 50 to 120 Hz ripple.

All that said: in my opinion, that CDE cap will run hours a night every night for a decade, unless you jam it too close to the power tubes. It's a good cap, very conservatively specced, and it is plenty big enough.

Let me kindly disagree: this cap should never be used in a guitar amp.

$14 extra for SoZo logo and application warranty.... hmmmm.....

It sounds much better with the SoZo logo.

(Edit: typo)

[FYL]

Here are the "specs", from the SoZo web site:

SoZo Royal 67 Capacitor Specifications

Discharge Life: Tested to More than 10 million discharges - typical life is more than 30 million
Working Volts: 350 VDC
Surge Volts: 400 VDC
Ripple Current @ 120Hz , 85°C: 0.80 Ω max.
Normal Operating Temperature: - 20 °C to +55 °C
Leakage Current: 0.01 CV +20 μA at 25 °C
Cold Impedance: –20 °C multiplier of 25 °C Z ≤ 2
Dissipation Factor: 7% maximum @ 25 °C & 120 Hz
Shelf Life: 500 h @ +55 °C, Δ capacitance ±10%, ESR 150% of limit, DCL 150% of limit
Vibration: 10 to 55 Hz; 0.06” and 10 g max, 6 h vertical, 2 h each, 2 other planes

Now, can anybody explain to me what "Ripple Current @ 120Hz , 85°C: 0.80 Ω max." means?

[alerich]

Big Daddy, get your feel (pun intended), but I don't think pickups and coupling caps are comparable. Most would agree that pickups change the sound, maybe even more so than speakers, but coupling caps? I still don't buy it, literally.

I think different types of caps do sound different based on the type of dielectric they are made of/with. Some dielectrics perform that job more efficiently than others and that will affect how well the cap does its job. Changing a cap here or there I don't think makes a whole lot of difference. I prefer Mallory caps to Orange Drops but if all I have on hand in a given value is an Orange Drop I'll use it and it's no big deal. Take a black face Fender amp and shotgun it with OD caps and I can tell a difference and I won't like it. The next guy might love it.

Bluesbear makes a great point about high fidelity components in a low fidelity application. People are sometimes unhappy with current production components - output transformers in particular - because they are essentially "too good". That same effect can certainly happen with any component including capacitors. Metal film resistors are quieter in plate load applications but some people prefer to use carbon comps specifically for the opposite reason. It's all a big trade-off. If someone says they can hear the difference I believe them and more power to them.

[FYL]

I think different types of caps do sound different based on the type of dielectric they are made of/with.

Of course, a cheap ceramic cap will be highly non linear, as will an electrolytic used for AC apps w/o any DC. Ditto for construction and overall quality: cheap Chinese film caps can be non linear and noisy, old-style PIO's are usually leaky an can wreak havoc.

But there are no subjective differences between broadly similar quality caps. None, zilch.
Anyone can do a double blind test and verify this.

Metal film resistors are quieter in plate load applications but some people prefer to use carbon comps specifically for the opposite reason.

Soime people like unreliable hissy amps. Others like root beer floats with their KFC double fat sandwich.

[tubesornothing]

Greasy fried chicken aside, I am wanting to set up a guitar clip to run some tests.  Now, what would I put in it to help me hears any differences in caps?

Clean chords (full spectrum)
Hard pushed chords (power chords)
Some low note solo stuff
Some higher note solo stuff


what else?

[simonallaway]

Others like root beer floats with their KFC double fat sandwich.

Git r done!  

[Fresh_Start]

Some people like unreliable hissy amps. Others like root beer floats with their KFC double fat sandwich.

I've got to draw the line when you disrespect a root beer float by tying it to a KFC "double fat sandwich"!  In a double blind taste test, even anorexic models prefer root beer floats over non-fat yogurt!!!

That YouTube video is fantastic.  I'd never thought about the importance of the room itself much, let alone the position of your ears inside that room.  Adjusting EQ when the pedal in question isn't even in the signal chain?  A couple of days ago I found myself asking "Why aren't the mids coming out more?" instead of "Why aren't the changed settings having any effect on my tone?"

Can you hear a difference between complete garbage cables and George L cables?  Sure!  Can you hear an improvement with "gold plated" contacts?  If you really can, I'll buy them for you.

Carbon comp resistors act differently under large voltage swings compared to metal films (which are very stable).  That's real "mojo" which can be measured... it just come with the potential cost of hisssss.

I believe that I can hear a difference between polystyrene Orange Drops and polyester Mallory 150s but do not know how much of the difference I hear is due to reading endlessly that there is a difference.  I know I can't tell the difference between two decent quality polyster caps (e.g. Mallory 150s and Xicons like Doug sells).

The speaker, cabinet, tubes, output transformer, and component values are so much more important than which specific type or brand of component that all these debates about hi-$$$ power cables, caps, etc. make me dizzy, sick or worse.  

If burning up your money on high dollar uber-caps makes you happy, just send it all to me or my family instead.  We'll "burn" it for you!

Sorry for rambling,

Chip

[phsyconoodler]

Gaz,Gaz,Gaz,
  "Most would agree that pickups change the sound, maybe even more so than speakers, but coupling caps? I still don't buy it, literally. "

  They can make or break an amp.I have changed coupling caps in many amps that the owners were ready to turf and the difference in tone was enough for them to want to keep the amp.
  Big Daddy knows those differences.Many average players can't hear nothing,but a good player can hear and 'feel' the difference almost instantly.Some examples are:many 'orange drop' type caps are brighter and faster that caps like Mallory's.Paper in oils are clearer sounding and have a graininess to the tone that you cannot get with orange drops.Some caps like Xicons and mylar sound kind of dull to me.Not bad by any means,just dull.Less harmonics in the tone.
   The only way to find out is to try them in an amp that you play every day.
But to say that one is 'better' than another is like saying I prefer Lindt chocolate to Cadbury chocolate.It depends on what you want to hear or even CAN hear.
 

[Rich]

Anyone get a peek at what Dumble used/uses?

[FYL]

what else?

I would add pink and white noise, plus a 1 KHz or so calibration tone in order to check levels.

Plus suitable software for your PC, Mac, Vax or C64.

Another good test is to compare the difference between two time-aligned and level-matched files...

[plexi50]

I have used the  Mallory M150 and Sozo caps for a while now. I really cant hear a huge difference between them. There are too many other variables in every amp i have built weather it be using metal film or carbon comp resistors

I will say that though when i use Orangedrops for the PI coupling output stage i do hear a nicer sheen,mix what ever you want to call it

Mallory or Sozo caps throughout the entire amp but OD's for the PI output to the power tubes

This is all Marshall circuit related. Fender is another story / Also i am a firm believer now in using carbon comp resistors through out the signal path

I built a Champ 5F1 using half metal and half carbon film resistors / Sounded good. Then i changed all the resistors to carbon comps. I hear finer details in the notes and have more personal satisfaction in using carbon comps now

The cap thing though is ever changing from build to build. So i have to say for me personally the Mallorys do just a fine job as do the Sozos at less than half the price of the Sozos / F&T PS caps have done me good and i am happy using them

Carbon comps may be a little noisy but i think they are more noticable than most of the tone caps in the full mix / JMO

[FYL]

Anyone get a peek at what Dumble used/uses?

Coupling caps are usually Sprague PS.

Plenty of pix here http://www.roblivesey.com/dumble

[jcm-jmp]

lol geez guys

orange drops in the signal and sprague or FT's in the power rail have never failed to provide quality sound and "feel" in any amp i have ever done.

more over the "feel" or "touch responce" of a guitar amp stems from all the enteractions of power filtering, pt and ot give and take, signal transfer in the tubes,stage coupling and cathode bypasing, smoothies,resistance drift in resistor temps i.e. screens on power tubes, all the way to pick up and build type of guitar and the fingers fretting the fret board.

so no 2 amps are ever going give the same results no matter what type caps you use.
some may be close but are always different to some degree.

I just try to use what gives consistant,exceptable and reliable results. that has always been those mentioned above.

it is fun to try and recreate or emulate that mystical marshall major tone just before it went up in flames though lol!!!!!!!!!

[jerrydyer]

I use Mallory 150 and solen. I do remember also stated from plexi 50 I think ,, i had orangedrops in my favorite 79 marshall, output coupling caps. Still the best sounding amp to my ears. I think I am going to try them again in my next one.

[alerich]

I will say that though when i use Orange Drops for the PI coupling output stage i do hear a nicer sheen,mix what ever you want to call it

Mallory or Sozo caps throughout the entire amp but OD's for the PI output to the power tubes

That's a pretty slick idea. I never considered using OD's in that position to exploit the one reason I'm not terribly fond of them. Good call.

There's a guy who frequented a.g.a on Usenet who rebuilds Deluxe Reverb amps from DRRI donors. He uses a practice he calls cap stacking - using two smaller values or two different caps to add to get the value you need and derive some sort of sonic mojo from the combination.

[Fresh_Start]

I will say that though when i use Orange Drops for the PI coupling output stage i do hear a nicer sheen,mix what ever you want to call it

Mallory or Sozo caps throughout the entire amp but OD's for the PI output to the power tubes

That's a pretty slick idea. I never considered using OD's in that position to exploit the one reason I'm not terribly fond of them. Good call.

There's a guy who frequented a.g.a on Usenet who rebuilds Deluxe Reverb amps from DRRI donors. He uses a practice he calls cap stacking - using two smaller values or two different caps to add to get the value you need and derive some sort of sonic mojo from the combination.

Funny, I did the same thing on my Super Reverb build.  Mostly Xicons with a couple of Mallories in the signal path except for PS Orange Drops for the PI->power tube coupling caps.  I don't recall the reasoning behind the choice but the customer loves it.

Cheers,

Chip

[FYL]

I don't recall the reasoning behind the choice but the customer loves it.

If the customer loves it, that's perfect.
 

(I do the same most of the time, depending on board space and more or less random selection in the parts bins. Mixing caps and resistors can also have an eye-pleasing effect if you pick the right color combinations)

[sluckey]

Mixing caps and resistors can also have an eye-pleasing effect if you pick the right color combinations

There you go! 

[plexi50]

I built a Marshall 1987 plexi one week and i didnt have any Mallorys left for the PI coupling so i used a pair of .033 Orange Drops

I noticed the difference right off the bat. When i got my order of .022 Mallorys in i changed them out for the Mallory's again just out of habit

At that point i knew i was putting the OD's back in the PI output stage / Definetly worth listening to and keeping in the PI coupling

It's hard to break old ways of doing things and this is another one of those trial and error things

Turned out to be a good thing

[birt]

i just use quality parts, whatever brand they are. coupling caps are mostly NOS Tesla, philips and other european brands. filtercaps are brand new not too expensive ones, mostly 450V. i use whatever resitors i have, mostly 1/2W and 1W on the anodes. no carbon comps.

and the room you hear it in DOES matter. there are times that when working in theatre i hear the whistling high pitched noise of a spotlight (we use old dimmers). if you turn your head just the right way the sound can dissapear. that is not my imagination, it's the space i'm in, whavelength of the sound etc...

[bluesbear]

You can build 2 identical amps with all identical components from same batches and they probably won't sound the same. They may (hopefully) both sound good, even great, but not quite the same. There is magic to this art! I sold a 1 channel BF Fender type amp to a jazz guy in Jersey City a couple years ago. It was almost all Xicon caps. He said it was the best amp he'd ever owned. I'm not saying Mallorys or ODs, etc, wouldn't have been different but maybe not as good for that particular casino jazzman. Who knows? "Better", "worse", even "different" tone is such a subjective thing, how can it really be quantified? I just know I get great results from good inexpensive caps. Hey, it worked for Fender, Trainwreak, D*mble. etc. I wont waste money on what I don't need. Of course, if they make a difference in someone elses design, then they make a diifierence. That's my point, actually. It's magic! I love that!!
Dave