high end parts

[bnew63]

Are the high end caps and resistors worth the extra money??
I know in home stereo applications that the better quality parts do make a difference.
But if you where to introduce some serious background noise(like the rest of the band) will you hear the difference?
Just want to know before I fork out the extra money for these parts.

Thanks Brian

[phsyconoodler]

No.Audiophile parts are not going to work in a guitar amp,where the frequency response is much narrower.Not to say they won't work,it's just a waste of money when the sound and tone will not improve enough to make the price tag worth it.
   Some of the best sounding vintage amps use 10 cent caps and sound hideous with audiophile grade parts.

[bnew63]

I wasn't specifically talking about audio parts but the more expensive parts that are for guitar amps.
Angela Instruments have alot of these for sale.

Brian

[tubesornothing]

read the thread on "sozo capacitors".

[simonallaway]

read the thread on "sozo capacitors".

... if you have lots of time on your hands 

[FYL]

Are the high end caps and resistors worth the extra money??

Absolutely not. All are overhyped and overpriced.

I know in home stereo applications that the better quality parts do make a difference.

Please define "better quality parts".

[bnew63]

I did read through a bit of that thread and gleaned enough to save the money for better tubes.
In better parts I was referring to caps and resistors.
I know that better iron,pots and tubes do make a difference.

[phsyconoodler]

Better quality parts: definition: more expensive to give Audiophiles something to do.Or for people that have too much money.

 But...the question is,what parts are you looking at on the Angela site?

[bnew63]

Spraque axial caps
Angela Alunimum foil paper in oil
official fender pots(are we paying for the name)

[Tiny_Daddy]

The Sprague name was bought by United Chemi-con who suggests that the large blue electrolytics are for replacement purposes only, meaning they are the same size/color outside but different inside. There was a thread on this some time ago - maybe 2 years? with photos of cut-open caps showing the smaller caps inside. A Sprague rep was answering and promising something new from Sprague for guitar amps but I haven't seen anything yet.
Bourns (who would have expected it?) is making some nice pots for guitar amps these days.

[G._Hoffman]

Spraque axial caps
Angela Alunimum foil paper in oil
official fender pots(are we paying for the name)

As Tiny_Daddy said, the Sprague caps are snake oil (not from the manufacturer, but from the people who say they are better because of their larger size - Sprague is very clear about what they are selling!), and the "Fender" pots are nothing but CTS pots that are either stamped with the Fender name, or just with a code that indicates they were made for Fender.  Buy CTS, they are cheaper, and they are the exact same pots.  Bourns also makes very nice pots, but most of them are difficult to impossible to clean down the road, which I'm not wild about.  And if you are going to get their open pots, why not buy the CTS which are just as good but cheaper?


Gabriel

[bluesbear]

Many people (whose opinions I respect) hear a difference. Maybe I do, too, but I couldn't say I hear anything better within that difference. Just different. But I agree with where your thoughts seem to be heading. I don't care how good your ears are, I doubt you'll hear any difference over the drums, bass, and/or keys.
Dave

[tubesornothing]

Oh lordy, here we go again...

[6G6]

Keep in mind that Leo Fender produced a lot of good amps,
for a lot of years,
by using whatever he could find a good deal on.

[bigdaddy]

It doesn't matter what end it comes from. If it works and sounds good then it's good.


Although watch for re-branding and jacked up prices. Some places sell things for list price but most have a discount. Some companies just take a part and put their name on it, some jack up the prices. For instance Stew Mac sells tint for refinishing guitars with their name on it, it's the same thing sold everywhere under the true manufactures name. But they all sell it at about the same price.

Some companies just jack up the prices, some sell for more because they test and measure the parts, especially tubes. It takes some time to get the hang of it and find dealers you trust and can rely on.

[tommytornado]

I think you'll find most here would say no.. they don't make a big difference, especially when considering the cost.  Those Angela PIO's cost $15-25 per, but I could point you to $1-2 film/foil caps that are going to sound 98% as good if you were to swap all the coupling and tone caps in the same amp and did a comparison.  Same kind of deal with resistors.  Percision values really aren't needed/don't and any value in most cases in guitar amp circuits.  I don't care for the hiss of an amp loaded with carbon comp resistors, carbon films work fine for me.  Pots, I put my first amp together 10 yrs ago and have done 8 others since.. $2 ish alpha's and webers in all of them and I've never had an issue or failure.  But as others have said, the CTS product for $1-2 more per should outlast the usefulness of the amp they're in.  

What amp/circuit are you looking to build?      



    

[bnew63]

I guess I opened Pandoras box here.
Thanks for the info guys.The first amp I built(a Princeton tweed)I used carbon comp resistors and a few high end caps.I had just finished a audio amp so I guess I was caught up in the frenzy of better parts better sound.
I did find the amp a little noisy even after several tries at extra grounding.
I've been looking at the Ceratone 36 watt EF86 for this build.I have alot of the parts already.
Another thing that I need info on is the size of the chassis needed for this amp.
Also something I have done in the past was to take a sized flat sheet of metal machine all the holes,have it bent and add wooden sides.I've used this for audio applications and I like the overall effect the wood gives the amp.I don't move my amps much so I'm not building a outer chassis for it.In your opinions is it safe to use wood as long as I give appropriate spacing

[HotBluePlates]

Yes, everyone is justifiably concerned about the old "you can't hear it, but I can" routine...

So I'll say this:
I built a tweed Deluxe copy. I saw Angela's website, and decided to try out all kinds of supposedly wonderful, very expensive parts. Yes, copper-foil paper-in-oil caps, and resistors with the silly gold flashing on the leads.

End result? An amp that sounded like a tweed Deluxe, and a builder who could have spent a lot more of the cash on the next build.

Draw your own conclusions, but I've never bought any of the high-end stuff afterwards. There are other places where gnat's-ass better is a better investment. But I didn't put high-end parts in the McIntosh MC-30 I restored either.

[bigdaddy]

I tried a lot of different things too and I now use metal film resistors, the CC are noisy and the values drift. I bought some NOS Bradley's and a 100K was 130K. Carbon film are OK but I do not hear much difference with metal film so I use them. But the only thing I can say I heard a big difference was using the SOZO and Jupiter handmade caps, that's my opinion and I will go with it. Everything else was really a disappointment, the most being PIO which sounded horrible in guitar amps.

[LooseChange]

My favorite amp build is an 18 watt that was modified a zillion times and most parts except the iron was from the junk box (after all it is my amp).  It sounds absolutely awesome to my ears and all the guys in the band. I play it every week with with a full band.
It has Orange drop, STK, Mallory and ceramic disks. Carbon comp, Carbon , metal and those brown vishy- dale resistors. Even the pots are good to garbage. And don't forget the really cheap Weber filter caps.

[Tiny_Daddy]

Before you rush out and buy parts with gold on the leads, read up on gold embrittlement of solder joints. The latest ISO solder rules require you to remove the gold by tinning with solder and wiping it off. Gold flashed circuit boards are exempt.

[alerich]

In better parts I was referring to caps and resistors.

Everyone has their opinion about caps - not going to go there. As far as resistors go there seems to be much more agreement that certain types of resistors sound different in various applications but it's not a 'high end' thing since there isn't a radical price difference between resistor compositions. I don't know that I have ever seen high priced high end resistors but I would assume they do exist out there.

I take my lead from Doug. If he doesn't sell it I probably don't need it for my amp.

[FYL]

Gold flashed circuit boards are exempt.

And for good reason: this is the best and least expensive ROHS-compatible process.

[FYL]

I don't know that I have ever seen high priced high end resistors but I would assume they do exist out there.

They do exist. Just an example: audiophools love Kiwame 2-watt CF resistors at a cool $1.10 a pop. Do they know that they are basic Koa Speer SPR-2 resistors, available from distribs such as Mouser for $.17 each (and much less if you purchase them in indus quantities)?

I take my lead from Doug. If he doesn't sell it I probably don't need it for my amp.

Doug has an excellent parts selection, ships really fast and has always offered excellent service - give or take a few episodes with a missing spacer (tongue in cheek joke).

[bnew63]

Thanks I appreciate the on going advice.
Things are a little more expensive up hear in the great white north but the part count isn't to high on an amp like this.
Shipping and border fee's are a killer,so small orders don't save you anything.

Brian

[LooseChange]

Things are a little more expensive up hear in the great white north but the part count isn't to high on an amp like this.
Shipping and border fee's are a killer,so small orders don't save you anything.
Brian

Where are you up north? Some stuff can be had up there.

[bigdaddy]

That's why it's best to make a large order of things you know you are going to need to build a lot of amps. For instance if you build Fender clones of some type certain values are used in every amp starting with the late 1950'. 100K, 220K, 1M, 68K and so on, with caps, .1, .047, .022 and so on, filter caps 22MFD 500v are used a lot.

So figure out what you might need, add an extra one or two and make sure you have the parts when you want to build. I cannot say how frustrating it is waiting for a part. That's one reason I mostly use Doug. He might not have everything but he has mostly everything you need to build amps.

Honestly I might not have built anything if I had to order from some other vendors all the time. Without Doug getting parts to me so quickly the frustration is not worth it from some other vendors. I have spent maybe a few thousand dollars in parts over the last few years. I didn't care about the price which is competitive, the knowledge that I would have them in a day or two was comforting.

2 others who I recommend highly are David Allen(sent me free stuff) and JMI music in Ft. Worth Texas(good buddy). But Doug is the man!!!!