Tweed BluezMeister

[tubenit]

Geezer has built an incredibly sweet sounding amp. This is some info he provided on that amp:

The "Bluesmaster" is a "Dumble" style amp that normally has a full (extra) tonestack in the OverDrive section (known as "HRM", HotRodMarshall, HotRubberMonkey, whatever).

Erwin took the Bluesmaster preamp & married it to the overdrive section of a "normal" Overdrive Special (no HRM tonestack).

I then took his original design & "tweedified" it by using cathode bias & by lowering the filtering in the power amp.

The amp is big & fat in the clean section (not "too" clean, but still clean), but really shines in the OD section! Super touch response, & big bloom & sustain when you crank up the gain & volume.

The linked clip was recorded at a fairly low volume, thru an older Weber Sig12 in an open back cab.
Guitar = HSH Strat

https://soundcloud.com/dageezer/bluesmaster-non-hrm-demo

https://soundcloud.com/dageezer/noodles-on-the-bm-01032011mp3

https://soundcloud.com/dageezer/tweedmaster-demo-higain-floyd

THANKS for Doug/EL34 who helped edit the layout for this build!

Geezer suggested that we create a "STANDARD" for this build using his values except in the OD section where we choose to use some of his values but also more traditional  "D-style" amp pots of 100kl values.

He has looked over the schematic and layout & I have proofed it for errors also.

However, .......... ALWAYS  check for errors and compare the schematic and layout with one another.

I would advise taking an approach on this amp of planning to build it as is. Then tweaking it to make it fit the personal tone you
are looking for.

Tweak suggestions that I would recommend would be trying different 12A_7 type tubes. Also I recommend that you try different resistor values going into the trim, drive and level pots. Tip: don't use shrink tubing over the resistors & wire connection until you settle on which resistors will be the best value for you. You can slide shrink tubing over but don't shrink it ....til you're done.

And you may or may not want to try extra smoothing caps across the plates of the V2 tube in the OD section. I would confine the tweaks to the the V1 & V2 tubes. I think the LTPI and power amp are probably are fine and the OD is from the preamp not the power amp anyway.

I used Orange Drop PS in mine, I think Geezer used typical 715P Orange Drops. I am sure the amp would sound good with other types of caps also but Orange Drop seem to be a "D-style" favorite. I personally am not real keen on the Mallory 150's for this type of amp because I think it loses some clarity in the overdrive. However, others may find the Mallory's to be to their liking? I would suggest at least using the OD's in the tone stack.

EDIT  3-21-12:   Hoffman's layout board is still a perfect fit for my current 3-2012 version of the TBM at the bottom of this thread. Just buy his board and turrets and then change component values accordingly.  There is a Hoffman style layout of my current build on that reply #10 post.

With respect, Tubenit

EL34: I edited the Layout to be closer to the actual lugs layout on the board. Use the new layout below.
I renamed the Schematic file just so it's easy to figure out which file is which.
You can use these two documents for my turret boards for assembly tips
https://el34world.com/Hoffman/instructions.htm

https://el34world.com/Hoffman/files/CommonHookups.pdf

[tubenit]

Below are Geezer's and Tubenit's personal versions.

However, I would suggest building the "standard" in the first post which is what I will do if I built another one.

I have left these in this post out of courtesy to those of you who may already have downloaded these so you can reference them if you lose your copy & have already built this amp.

Note that the Hoffman layout board will work for either of these also.

With respect, Tubenit

[tubenit]

The original thread post by Geezer is here: http://www.el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=10719.0


Geezer's amp sound bits are here:

http://soundcloud.com/dageezer/bluesmaster-non-hrm-demo

http://soundcloud.com/dageezer/tweedmaster-demo-higain-floyd

http://soundcloud.com/dageezer/higainnoodles-on-the-bm-01032011mp3

Tubenit's amp sound bit is here:

http://www.soundclick.com/player/single_player.cfm?songid=10193624&q=hi&newref=1

IF you have some interest in building a FX-Reverb unit to plug into the passive effects on this amp, information for that is here:  http://www.el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=10624.0

[tubenit]

EDIT:  4-22-12

Someone on the forum was interested in the idea of a Tweed BluezMeister with an active FX loop.  So I drew this up.

As always ....... CHECK for errors!  Compare schematic with layout. If there is a discrepency, go with the schematic.

With respect, Tubenit

EDIT:  I've added a TBM with clean only (no overdrive) for someone that wants a super simple grab & go blues amp. It still has PAB and mid boost and a treble, bass, mid tone stack so I think it would be more versatile than a 5E3 (which is a great amp also).  This eliminates the need for relay switching.  I use either a Boss delay or MXR delay in the passive effects loop and it works great, IMO.

[drumslinger2000]

Tubenit,

    Was there a preference on what type of smoothing caps to use? (Ceramic, Mica..etc) 

[Geezer]

For the smaller values I use whatever I have in the bin (SMica or ceramic).....polyester (Mallory 150's) for the .001's

[EL34]

Made time to cut some Tweed BluezMeister boards.

You can find them on this page
http://www.hoffmanamps.com/MyStore/catalog/parts12.htm

Here's a pic of one with the lugs installed, all laced up and soldered
The bottom one with no lugs is the one I sell

[EL34]

I was creating a parts list for the web site from the BOM
http://www.el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=11197.0

IAll parts that had no qty's I assumed to be qty of 1 each?

Check out the new parts list feature I am messing around with here.
All the parts on the BOM can be added to the shopping cart with one click.
http://www.hoffmanamps.com/MyStore/catalog/partslistredirect.htm

[EL34]

Ok, check out the page again

I made it so that each parts list is collapsed
When you click on the parts list header, the parts list shows up below the header

The page would be way too long once there are lots of parts list.

Now, you only see the parts list you are interested in.

Here's the parts list page link
http://www.hoffmanamps.com/MyStore/catalog/partslistredirect.htm

[jenks]

First Post here. Long, long time lurker. So long I had to re-register on this "new" forum. I was thinking of building a #124 Dumble, but came across this thread. Much rather try this one. I've done most of the Fender, Vox and Marshall clones (have almost all Doug's drilling templates, etc.).

I have the Hoffman board in house. Was wondering if anyone can comment on a pre-punched chassis to use that is "close"?

I know I'd have to buy 3 blank chassis' before I even came close to getting one right

Jenks

[tubenit]

I don't know of one, but there may be something out there.

I've always used aluminum chassis and punched out my own. I did my BluezMeister in a shortened 18w Marshall type blank chassis . Inexpensive chassis. I had to "double deck" the relay above the board but it worked. And I used two mini-pots on the chassis front. One for the bass pot and one for the OD tone pot.

Wiring is not very neat but surprisingly the amp is very quiet.

EDIT:  The TBM 1-12 and TBM 3-2012 is the same. I simply drew up a Hoffman style layout for the TBM 3-2012 to show those went together.

With respect, Tubenit

[guitardude57]

Tubenit, Thanks for drawing up the layout and schematic for the TBM with the active loop.
I'm saving up to build this...

Doug,

How much lead time do you need to drill up the board for this?

I appreciate you guys greatly

Regards, Mike

[EL34]

Doug,
How much lead time do you need to drill up the board for this?

None, I stock them on this page
http://www.hoffmanamps.com/MyStore/catalog/parts12.htm

[guitardude57]

Thanks Doug!
This board is ready for the active tube FX loop as is?

[EL34]

I don't know, you would have to look at the project info
I did not design the circuit, I only helped create a turret lug layout and that was a long time ago.

Tubenit would know

[tubenit]

Now, the TBM is in a 18.5" X 6.5" X 2.5"  18 watt style open end chassis. I actually cut the 20" length down to 18.5"

This amp combo is about the size of a 5E3 combo amp.  

However, it has clean/OD, PAB, & midboost.  The clean/OD and midboost are relay switched using a foot switch box.

It also has on board an active FX loop.  I left out the LNFB around the 2nd triode and I changed some of the component values.

What I am trying to do is convey that I have ALOT going on in a very small chassis ............ AND the relay boards are super quiet.
They were very very easy to wire up and I actually built a relay power supply board that I mounted on L brackets on the open side of the amp.

The combo amp is so quiet at idle that I can almost not hear it & yet when I hit a chord, it's VERY LOUD with 6L6's in it.
I think it would be easy to walk into a room with the amp on and perhaps not hear it at all with it on either clean or OD? This is maybe the most quiet combo amp I've owned.  It is actually quieter than the D'Mars ODS which has surprised me.  

This amp has incredible blooming!  It is bluesier sounding than the D'Mars OD Special.  The D'Mars ODS has a sweeter more musically harmonic tone.  The TBM  actually sounds sort of Dumblish meets Fendery tone.  It has excellent sustain and blooming.  

The quietness of the TBM at idle (when dialed in to be LOUD) and the sustain and blooming feature make this a really really nice small combo "grab & go" amp.

I will try to take some pictures later this week and post them.  The wiring is NOT very neat, but I think a chassis shot  would be impressive in knowing that so much can be crammed into such a small space and be so super quiet at idle. This is waaaayyyyy quieter than the Princeton Reverb amp I owned.

After playing it an hour,  I can not think of any tweaks yet that I want to try?   However, keep in mind this is basically the same TBM that I tweaked over a yr of playing it .......... but with a D'lator type active FX loop now on board. So, I don't expect any major tweaks on this.

I am using an Emminence Texas Heat speaker with this amp.

EDIT:  1-12-13   Added an 82p to V3-6 to V3-8 on the active FX loop.  This added some sweetness, vowel tone  and sustain with no
          perceived loss of highs.    I also lowered the entrance resistor to the OD trim from 180k to 100k.  This opened up the amp's OD
          and made it somewhat more touch sensitive.  I added a 33k from wiper to ground on the OD drive to change the dial setting a
          little.  No difference in tone.

With respect, Tubenit

[rifflicks]

Hello....I realize this is a real old topic.....but.....is there a complete layout, and schematic for a "clean only" Tweed BluezMeister w/Reverb anywhere to be downloaded????

[tubenit]

Tweed BluezMeister   clean only & Reverb.

CHECK for errors!   Compare layout to schematic.  IF there is a difference, go with the schematic.

You might consider using a 50uf/100v cathode cap for the power tubes.  You can also use a 330ohm or 270ohm 10W cathode resistor if you want for the power tubes.   


with respect, Tubenit

[rifflicks]

Tubenit....this is the schematic I came up with

[tubenit]

You did a GREAT job with the schematic!

I probably would change a couple of things simply out of personal preference.
I'd want the F node on the B+ rail to be a little bit higher voltage for the reverb to work it's "best".  This isn't necessarily truly better just another approach to consider.

So, I redrew the F-node.  And also noted some preferences for the power tubes cathode resistor and cap.

With respect, Tubenit

[rifflicks]

Thanks.... I actually caught the "F" mistake when I was looking at the layout for errors....I'm still working on the layout in between getting some work done.

[rifflicks]

Tubenit....I've had a chance to work more on the Layout drawing and I'm down to the reverb circuit.....I noticed the reverb portion of the schematic you posted is different than mine....should I correct the layout to your schematic or was mine correct enough to use? 

[tubenit]

I would suggest making your layout match the schematic I posted, but it's your call.

I am presuming you have taken a look at the layout I already drew up for you in reply #17 .............. correct?

With respect, Tubenit

[rifflicks]

Yes....I have been matching the layout to the schematic you posted....the reverb section is all I have left.

[rifflicks]

Tubenit....the schematic has the reverb schematic using a single 12AX7...and the layout has a parallel 12AT7 ....do you want me to convert the layout to the single 12AX7?.....wouldn't the reverb be smoother and easier to control with the lower gain of the 12AT7 in parallel ?

[tubenit]

Tubenit....the schematic has the reverb schematic using a single 12AX7...and the layout has a parallel 12AT7 ....do you want me to convert the layout to the single 12AX7?.....wouldn't the reverb be smoother and easier to control with the lower gain of the 12AT7 in parallel ?

I did it both ways just to offer two different approaches.  I have always been quite happy with the simple "one tube reverb" approach because I use a VERY subtle amount of reverb. Don't do surf stuff.  with a one tube reverb,  my dwell is usually between 5-7 and the reverb pot is between 3 -4.  That is more than enough reverb for what I want.  I also have used 5751's and 12AT7's sometimes for the one tube reverb and have enjoyed that.

Go with whatever you want to use, either will be fine, IMO.

Best regards, Tubenit

[rifflicks]

O K here is what I came up with comparing layout and schematic....should I have added the components on the to 6V6 tubes to the turret board?

[tubenit]

You did a very nice job with the layout! 

I typically mount the screen and grid resistors right on to the power tube pins, so it's not necessary to show them on the turret board.

Looks fine!   It is a great amp and I hope you enjoy it ALOT!

With respect and best regards,  Tubenit

[rifflicks]

Thanks.... I wasn't sure I did the reverb circuit right, it seemed to all come together pretty quickly......I'm going to build it in the near future....buying parts a little at a time to squeeze into the budget. Thanks for the education ....I may have to tap your expertise again when it's done to tweak it.....thanks again.

[rifflicks]

Tubenit.....if you please, I have another question....on the Tweed Blueszmeister  clean only schematic at V1b, pin#6... there is a .001uf and a .01uf capacitor in parallel right before the RV insertion point...then at RV there is  another .001uf in series at the reverb potentiometer....is this correct??? doesn't two capacitors in series act like two resistors in parallel ??

[tubenit]

Use this capacitors in series calculator and figure it out.   

http://www.kusashi.com/series-capacitors.php

With respect, Tubenit

[rifflicks]

That's a pretty handy little tool (even easier than my 1970's Radio Shack thumb-wheel Resistor color calculator) .... I guess I'm just perplexed at what all of those capacitors are doing at one point in every direction of the current path .....with my lack of knowledge in circuit designing , I wasn't sure if it was an error.

[ampedup]

This looks like a cool little amp. I built a d lite clone that sounds good but I don't think it does the dumble tone I  was hoping for. How do you open the layout and schematic files?

[tubenit]

ExpressSCH is a free download program that is intuitively friendly.

http://www.expresspcb.com/expresspcbhtm/Free_schematic_software.htm

Look at the top of the Schematics Library info.

With respect, Tubenit

[tubenit]

Here is an idea.  Tweed BluezMeister with FX and VVR and quad 6AQ5's.

Note the B+ rail and VVR is on page 3 of the schematic.

With respect, Tubenit

[lord preset]

I am doing a build based on the "standard" Bluezmeister schematic and layout in the 1st post of this thread.  The layout has both the treble and bass pots grounded which is not the case in the schematic. I am assuming that the schematic is correct but I thought I would mention it.

[hokenpoke]

I haven't been able to open any of the standard version .sch files for this amp and tried a number of specific and universal apps.  Could someone please let me know what I might use?  Many thanks.

[tubenit]

Are you using ExpressSCH?  Did you read the 2nd thread in this SCH library about this free download?

[hokenpoke]

I came to the thread in a roundabout way so missed the good stuff about ExpressSCH.  Unfortunately I'm all Mac at home so that doesn't work for me.  I tried the JSchem download but the current version of OS X is not happy with it.


Any chance I could appeal for .pdf versions?

[jonyoungyi]

Hey all, going to be building this soon, but I noticed the BOM and Hoffman's pre-made parts list differ in PT used? I also don't see a Solid State Rectifier in the BOM, but I do see it in Hoffman's pre-made parts list.

Just curious which is correct and which I should go by?

[tubenit]

I would go with Hoffman's pre-made list.   

IF you are using an 8 pin socket for Hoffman's plug in solid state rectifier, you could also use a GZ34 for 1.3 x VAC  .............. or a 5V4 for 1.2 x VAC ................ or the solid state for 1.4 x VAC.   So you have options there and each one will sound a little different.

With the Mojo 472 PT,  I would lean towards using a 5V4 or GZ34 over the solid state rectifier, but any of those will work.  You may need to have a somewhat larger dropping resistor in the B+ rail between nodes B and C.  I would probably try a 10k to 20k dropping resistor there instead of a 5k.

IF I was using tube rectificer, I'd use a 10k dropping resistor.   IF I was using solid state rectifier, I'd try a 20k dropping resistor. 

With respect, Tubenit

[jonyoungyi]

tubenit, you've been so helpful with all of my amp builds, thank you!

I'm assuming you mean the Mojo762 transformer!

Thanks for the dropping resistor recommendations, as well!

 

[tubenit]

Yes,  I meant Mojo 762

[MakerDP]

GREAT video demo of this amp here...

http://el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=22719.0

[tubenit]

This is a reply to Juanjo who left me a personal PM.

Given your guidelines,  I would consider something like this.  I included a GIF version.  However, the ExpressSCH version is editable IF you download the ExpressSCH  free download:  https://www.expresspcb.com/expresssch/

There is a 2nd page to the schematic that you would need ExpressSCH to open.  IF you don't have a Windows PC, then look at J-schem as a free download program to use on a Mac as it will also open these schematics.

With respect, Tubenit

[Guy77]

Hi, I was interested in building an amp like the TBM with 5879 tube and I found this layout over at ampgarage. I noticed there was no Drive pot for the overdrive section.  Is this because the OD volume pot acts as the Drive pot?

I had a 5879 tube handy and was interested in trying this ver of the amp. I know there are a number of layouts of this amp and if anyone thinks I should build a different ver of the TBM I would appreciate any input.

Thanks for the great work everyone has done here documenting their builds!

Cheers

Guy

[tubenit]

I've built this.  Sounds fantastic!  Passive effects loop works reasonable well after the reverb.  CHECK for ERRORS!  If there is a discrepancy between layout and schematic, go with the schematic.

with respect, Tubenit

[jonyoungyi]

Hey all,

I built Tubenit's Tweed Bluezmeister (schematic/layout from the original post and not the other versions further down the thread) and sold it to someone. Turns out he has been listening to the wrong version of this amp.

He listened to Geezer's version (Tweed Master?): http://soundcloud.com/dageezer/tweedmaster-demo-higain-floyd

From what I gather, Tubenit's version is just a "STANDARD" version of Geezer's where the builder can change values and voice the amp to taste.

He's requesting the schematic to build Geezer's version, the one he uses in the Tweedmaster demo.

There are a lot of versions floating around and a lot of different names being thrown around (Tweed, Tweedy, Bluemeister, Bluesmaster, etc.) so it's a bit confusing to track down.

Could someone shoot me a link to the schematic for Geezer's "Tweedmaster-demo-higain-floyd" build?

[tubenit]

Look at Reply #1 where Geezer's version is listed.   The first post and the first reply is NOT a reflection of my personal amp, BTW. 

DaGeezer is a FANTASTIC player!  He used a different guitar and a different speaker and a different recording system & IF he had played my personal amp, it would still sound different then me playing my amp.

That's my way of saying some of the difference is not just the amp, but guitars, speakers, talent etc.............

In other words,  someone with their own talent, their own speaker, their own guitar and their own way of recording using DaGeezer's  "exact amp" will NOT sound like DaGeezer's soundclips.

Respectfully,  Tubenit

[jonyoungyi]

Thanks for confirming the first reply's schematic for me!

Understood about the different factors that affect a simple .mp3 recording haha *salute*