HRM vs. 5E3 OD tone stack

[tubenit]

For those of you who are trying D-type OD's.  I tried one with a 5E3 tone stack and compared it to the HRM tone stack in a different amp I built.  I find the 5E3 tone stack easier for me to match more closely the OD to the clean channel. And it is way easier for me to dial in the tone I want.

These are the OD channels compared between two of my amps.  The preamp section of both amps is different though.

With respect, Tubenit

[Geezer]

Thanks T!

I'm going to try the 5E3-type on my Maxim OD (bypass the full tonestack & insert the simple tone control), as I'm still not totally satisfied with the OD tone on my new amp. The "Clean" is perfect, but the OD is still lacking "something".

I'll let you know how it turns out....

G

[JayB]

The HRM is really a different beast and can be a little aggressive and ratty in the high end. I think the HRM tone stack works better in your second example. I usually end up with a 500p snubber on the first over drive stage to tame that ratty high end. I find a mid boost switch by paralleling an additional 500p over the treble cap works a treat but limits the interaction of the bass and middle controls though but it's a fun one trick pony.

[phsyconoodler]

Hey Tubenit,
  Do you find it makes the OD more strat friendly?

[tubenit]

Do you find it makes the OD more strat friendly?

It's hard for me to answer that question because the preamp is not a Dumble preamp on the amp with the 5E3 tonestack.

Only the OD and power section are Dumblish. I'm playing a Tele with DiMarzio FastTrack1 (humbucking strat) pickups thru it and it sounds good to me with those. While they're buckers they have a strat tone to them overall.

With respect, Tubenit

[jojokeo]

I find the 5E3 tone stack easier for me to match more closely the OD to the clean channel. And it is way easier for me to dial in the tone I want.

Hi T - What are you meaning by "matching more closely the OD to the clean channel."??? Do you mean in the volume levels between the two or the tone of the OD channel?

I love the way mine interacts betweeen the two and if it was footswitched instead of a toggle between the two channels it would work very nicely there too. I find the drive control gives a great tone when it's down less than half way w/ more than enough sizzle left over yielding more of the guitar's tone & pu settings through in the OD. Having the 5E3 vol/tone set-up on V1 makes the tone more pure also going into the OD section. The mid switch also puts the two caps in parallel but I'm finding rather than the mid cut, I am going to give more mid boost instead which is what really makes the OD tone sing. I also may try a switched total stack bypass circuit (w/ a filtered RC network) and check that out?

[tubenit]

Matching more closely in the tone.  In other words, instead of the clean being somewhat mid heavy and the OD channel more trebly. They match more closely.

The other thing I found with this 5E3 tone stack  is that dialing in the "right" tone allows more of the blooming effect with the D style amps.

With respect, Tubenit

[jojokeo]

I see, that's why the two plate to cathode caps then to tone it down. Interesting in that I don't notice that w/ mine as the treble control does both ends of the spectrum good and I just dial it where I want it w/ whatever guitar and style I'm playing (mostly w/ my Strat & LP). I find the sensitivity w/ the guitar's volume and pick attack amazing. I'm not too sure about what the Dumble "bloom" is exactly? Mine will sustain indefinately turned up at a certain modest volume level but I'm not sure that's what you're talking about? Could this be associated w/ the power supply "rebound" that comes after a second or two like you get after an amp that sags a bit?

[tubenit]

What I am referring to as a "bloom" is a sustained note that swells and brings really nice harmonics to it. You know how when an amp goes into feedback, the sound begins to swell into a howling feedback? It is sort of that idea but instead much more subtle and with the note & tone you're wanting. Not a great description but the best I can come up with.

With respect, Tubenit

[jojokeo]

  I think that was sort of what I was thinking but had a hard time describing it too. Ya know, maybe it's best described as being more of a "musical feedback"? That's kind of what I think of when I'm experiencing it. The only way for me to know if it's the same thing for sure is if there's an example to hear it on youtube or someone's recording. Do you know of any links that demonstrate this? Just below this "threshold" I get a sustain that wants to vibrato on it's own but I think that has to do w/ the way I designed it while it subtley comes out of it's grid current limiting & cut-off conditions. One other thing of note is that the amp takes on a different feel and sound whether or not I give it negative feedback or not. W/out it it's much more open, loud, and agressive and w/it it gets really milkshake rich. I find I keep playing it for longer periods than my other amps and when I switch to different speaker cabs it's gets even more addicting. This has been by far my favorite amp to this point.

[Geezer]

an example to hear it on youtube or someone's recording. Do you know of any links that demonstrate this?

Here's a good vid of an original TW that shows some good "bloom"

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[tubenit]

Yeah, that is a great example!  My amps do not bloom that pronounced but I have some of that going on.  The D-HRM is smoother sounding than that Trainwreck without that degree of crunch to it.  The other amp has more chime but also blooms somewhat.

With respect, Tubenit

[jojokeo]

Thanks Mr. G - then my ears are fine but my playing is definately not as refined. I'm extremely happy w/ my amp especially after hearing this. That's the type of infinite musical sustain I was referring to w/ guitar volume swells, turned down chiminess, and pick attack sensitivity w/ the biting chrunch. It seems he's using some chimey Celestion speakers and as I suspected the amp is turn way up helping this bloom/feedback to occur. Check out his tools and how he's using them that explains everything better -

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