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Hoffman Amps Forum image Author Topic: Silvertone 1484 OT secondary impedances??  (Read 8289 times)

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Offline bnwitt

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Silvertone 1484 OT secondary impedances??
« on: July 24, 2010, 02:07:20 pm »
I've got a Silvertone 1484 Twin Twelve head in for repair and I'm wondering what impedance the unused second tap on the secondary might be on the OT.  I'm assuming that the one being used is 4 ohms as the schematic shows 2@ 8 ohm speakers in parallel.  The used tap ohms out about 0.8 ohms.  The unused tap ohms out at 0.4 ohms.  Anyone have any idea?  I am going to change the stock speaker wire to a jack and I thought I might as well do the other tap and label both jacks.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2010, 03:07:16 pm by bnwitt »
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Offline 6bq5

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Re: Silvertone 1484 OT ssecondary impedances??
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2010, 02:59:17 pm »
I've got a Silvertone 1484 Twin Twelve head in for repair and I'm wondering what impedance the unused second tap on the secondary might be on the OT.  I'm assuming that the one being used is 4 ohms as the schematic shows 2@ 8 ohm speakers in parallel.  The used tap ohms out about 0.8 ohms.  The unused tap ohms out at 0.4 ohms.  Anyone have any idea?  I am going to change the stock speaker wire to a jack and I thought I might as well do the other tap and label both jacks.

i believe it for use in the 1485 amps, which had 2 of these output trannies, each hooked to a triad of 8 ohm speakers.     rh

Offline bnwitt

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Re: Silvertone 1484 OT secondary impedances??
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2010, 03:19:42 pm »
I'm talking about the secondary winding of the OT not the primary.  The 1484 Silvertone schematic doesn't show a second tap on the secondary, but this OT has one.  It looks like the original OT so I'm assuming it was just a stock model for several amps and they didn't use the additional tap for the 1484
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Offline 6bq5

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Re: Silvertone 1484 OT secondary impedances??
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2010, 07:31:14 pm »
I'm talking about the secondary winding of the OT not the primary.  The 1484 Silvertone schematic doesn't show a second tap on the secondary, but this OT has one.  It looks like the original OT so I'm assuming it was just a stock model for several amps and they didn't use the additional tap for the 1484

i was talking about the sec as well. i've owned about 10 of these amps and currently still have 4.  they all have had an extra tap on the output trannie sec that was not hooked up.  in fact, the merc magnetics repros i've used added this on in keeping with the original teardowns they did.   it does measure lower than the 4ohm tap that is hooked up in the 1484,  and since 2 of these trannies are used in the 1485 (which hooks each trannie sec up to 3 8 ohm speakers) it would make sense that this tap is used for load(s) in that amp/cab config.   
http://www.schematicheaven.com/bargainbin/silvertone1485.pdf

Offline bnwitt

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Re: Silvertone 1484 OT secondary impedances??
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2010, 09:06:31 pm »
So you think that tap is 2.66 ohms for the 3 speaker setup?
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Offline 6bq5

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Re: Silvertone 1484 OT secondary impedances??
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2010, 09:37:47 am »
So you think that tap is 2.66 ohms for the 3 speaker setup?

yes i think that's what it was used for.  although i've never done this with this amp/trannie (now that i think about it, i'm not sure why), if i get the chance this week i'll pull one of the amps out and stick some ac on the pri. and crunch the numbers and see what it is.   rh

Offline bnwitt

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Re: Silvertone 1484 OT secondary impedances??
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2010, 11:16:15 am »
I must say that this is physically the smallest push pull 6L6 OT I've ever seen.  It's half the size of a 5F6-A Bassman OT
« Last Edit: July 25, 2010, 01:41:14 pm by bnwitt »
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Offline LooseChange

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Re: Silvertone 1484 OT secondary impedances??
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2010, 11:41:22 am »
Yeah, it's tiny!
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Offline 6bq5

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Re: Silvertone 1484 OT secondary impedances??
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2010, 11:52:59 am »
I must say that this is the physically smallest push pull 6l6 OT I've ever seen.  It's half the size of a 5F6-A Bassman OT

yes it is!   i'd say about a third of the 1484's i've bought or worked on over the yrs have had a blown output.   i'd replace them with a blues deluxe/pro/etc sized output before the repros were available.   one reason they got away with (well, sort of)  it being smaller is the drastically reduced screen voltages in the amp, knocking down the overall power a bit.  the most unusual power trannie/setup---a dual voltage double (a voltage quadrupler) and they take the screen voltage off the 3rd node so it's approx. 3/4's plate voltage.   rh

Offline bnwitt

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Re: Silvertone 1484 OT secondary impedances??
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2010, 01:50:17 pm »
Let's talk about that blown OT.  I have done a cap job on this amp and changed all electrolytics except the multi can capacitor.  What I have right now is very low level output with distortion.  When I tap on the multi cap can I get loud crackling out of the speakers.  Very loud.  So I'm assuming I still need to change out the multi cap can with some individual capacitors and do a voltage check on all tubes.  

I'm assuming the OT is good since I can get such loud noise out of the speakers when I tap the preamp filter cap can making noise in that section that is making it's way out to the speakers.  Also, I get about 90 ohms on each wire to the center tap on the OT primary side.  The secondary winding resistance measures in ohms what I would expect it to be as previously mentioned.  What do you think?  OT ok?

Another thing is this amp's standby switch.  Not really a HT standby switch at all but a shorting of the push pull signal out of the phase inverter.  I've added a speaker out jack, a 3 wire grounded power cord and I'm thinking a real HT standby switch would be a good thing.  Any thoughts?  I guess I'd have to use a DPDT so I can break the OT Primary feed and the choke feed simultaneously.  That dual winding HT setup is very interesting.

And the preamp section power filtering at 20-10-5?  There are 3 triodes on the 10uf cap and 4 triodes on the 5uf cap.  That don't seem right :rolleyes:

http://www.triodeel.com/sil1484.gif
« Last Edit: July 25, 2010, 02:36:09 pm by bnwitt »
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Offline gldtp99

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Re: Silvertone 1484 OT secondary impedances??
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2010, 08:23:43 pm »
So you think that tap is 2.66 ohms for the 3 speaker setup?

Yes this is what the unused OT secondary tap on the 1484 is----- i'm not absolutely sure it's exactly 2.66 ohms but it is used in the 1485 to supply one bank of three 8 ohm speakers, connected in parallel.
I've also re-done many 1484's--- replaced many 1484 OT's, usually using the 125A6A/022848 replacement OT's for a little more low end punch.
I still have my 1485----i should take it out of storage and crank it up soon.
The Standby switch doesn't cut hi-voltage to the circuit----and it doesn't allow for the tubes to warm up before being hit by full B+---despite this, the tubes seem to have long lives in these amps---- even the 6L6's.
I also have some early/mid 60's Gibson Atlas and a Gibson Titan that use a similar Standby---- they don't eat tubes, either.
You can convert the Standby to interrupt the B+ but it probably isn't absolutely necessary.
These amps are quite a departure from the usual Fender/Marshall designs..................gldtp99

Offline SoundmasterG

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Re: Silvertone 1484 OT secondary impedances??
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2010, 11:50:32 pm »
The 1484 OT is used in the 1485 also, as mentioned. The 1484 uses the 4 ohm tap, and the 1485 uses the 2.66 ohm tap. I did measure this btw just to confirm what my brain told me it should be. It is WAY undersized, so it limits the frequency response, but it a large part of the tonal character of these amps so if you change it, the tone will change....might be better...might be worse. Power will go up too with a bigger OT. You can also move power up by adding a seperate filter cap node for the screens and move the screen tap to the next lug up on the doubler so it is going to the CT of the OT, then to the screens through a filter node like in a Fender. Power increases in a otherwise stock 1484 to 30 watts RMS from the stock 25. With a bigger OT, if you did this mod, you could get more like Super Reverb territory most likely. Another useful mod is to add a doubler and adjustable bias pot to the bias supply. You can get the tubes running in a safer range and extend tube life even more than stock, and get better tone too.....not so loose on the bottom and easy to distort. Preamp changes can really help too.....going towards a blackface fender can liven things up as far as supply voltages and cathode components are concerned. The reverb sux on these...don't mess with it if it doesn't work...not really worth the time. You can get better regulation, lower hum, and a slightly tighter bass by using larger cap values in the two doublers in the power supply. With what they have now, you essentially have the equivilant of a 25uf cap there. The resistors were poor quality in these amps and often drift out of spec. Any resistor will be better, and of course metal films, carbon films, and metal oxide will be quieter. You might keep the carbon comps on the plates for tonal reasons, but use better quality modern ones. The trem is fantastic...leave it alone on these if it works. I wouldn't bother with the standby change.....guitars amps don't need it to save the tubes from cathode poisoning, so as long as you have a mute feature from a standby, that is all that is needed. The Silvertone setup doesn't cancel the frequencies completely when on standby so it gives a somewhat cool sound effect when in standby if you play hard, but it still works as a mostly effective  standby in a mute respect.

You used to be able to get a reproduction can cap from Zack at Vibroworld, but he closed up shop. My brother's 1484 and my stock one have the last two of these can caps that he made. (He was across town from me) I've fixed a couple since then with varying methods. Due to space limitations a can is the best choice for these amps. I had Weber do a custom can, and had to mod the hole in the chassis to make it fit, but it worked just fine. I also did one with discrete caps inside on a new terminal strips. It worked, and was cheaper as far as parts cost, but space is an issue. If I did another, I'd go with a can again. I'm on record as not liking can caps too. :)

Greg

Offline jeff

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Re: Silvertone 1484 OT secondary impedances??
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2010, 04:15:32 pm »
I'm quite sure one is the 4Ω and one is the 2.6Ω. Which color wire is used for the 4Ω and what color is left unused? When I got my amp someone had disconnected the wire so I don't know which is which. thanks-Jeff

Offline SoundmasterG

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Re: Silvertone 1484 OT secondary impedances??
« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2010, 03:06:31 am »
Yellow is the 4 ohm tap, and red/yellow is the 2.66 ohm tap. Black is ground.

Greg

 


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