multi fx anyone like em, use em? Here's my thoughts...

[nateflanigan]

I've been researching/trying out multi fx units.  Since I can't find a store that has all the units I'm curious about I figured I'd order them all and keep the one I like best.  I'm looking at the line 6 m9, TC nova system, digitech rp 500, and boss me-70.  So far I've received the TC and the boss.  I sat down with them tonight, I don't know if I'm ready to draw any final conclusions but so far the boss is the boss.  It's very easy to use and sounds pretty good.  The TC isn't so much hard but annoying to use, it looks nice but it doesn't feel good.  I want to work with it some more, but so far it sounds really crappy.

Any one have anything they like?   

[simonallaway]

I used to use a Boss GT-6 and had some success when using it in a recording context. But live through either a PA amp or a guitar amp it just didn't do it for me As far as tone goes. I loved it for the fact that I could dial up pretty much anything, which was great in a cover band.

More recently I got some good tones when using it solely as multi-effects i.e. not using the amplifier or speaker simulation. This latter configuration is in essence an ME-70.

These days I've gone back to "guitar -> couple of pedals -> tube amp" and I cannot see myself going back to simulated effects. I'm having too much fun learning how to build amps and pedals, to be honest.

In conclusion I *think* that I am agreeing with you on the ME-70, as when using the GT-6 in that mode it was very cool, just not for me anymore.

[nateflanigan]

These days I've gone back to "guitar -> couple of pedals -> tube amp" and I cannot see myself going back to simulated effects. I'm having too much fun learning how to build amps and pedals, to be honest.

I've been doing that for a while, and on a philosophical level I'm right there with you.  The "need" for a multi fx unit is more the byproduct of the direction my band is going in.  Normally I just use a delay and rat clone but I'd like to do some more textural sound scape type stuff, and I think using a big pedal board is kind of ridiculous. 

On a side note, I like the modeling section of the me-70.  Not because the tweed setting really sounds all that tweedy or whatever, but it makes for a nice versatile boost pedal. 

Just for the sake of internetery I'll keep posting my opinions as I try out the various units.

[simonallaway]

 The "need" for a multi fx unit is more the byproduct of the direction my band is going in.  Normally I just use a delay and rat clone but I'd like to do some more textural sound scape type stuff, and I think using a big pedal board is kind of ridiculous.  

Totally understood. I bought my GT-6 when I was in a cover band that did a wide variety of genre that needed all kinds of weird tones/textures. Much more than my then current rig of "guitar -> cord -> marshall" could serve. That band is no more.

On the path I'm on now, I'm willing to bet I'll end up somewhere between the two, and have a board with perhaps 2-3 overdrives, a decent delay, wah and perhaps chorus/univibe modulation. That might amount to 10 units, but that's not toooooo ridiculous  

I'm definitely interested in how your voyage progresses...so keep posting!

[tubesornothing]

I actually purchased a few units and did side by side comparisions.  Boss GT6, Digitech RP600, TC Nova, Line6 M9 and Line6 M13.  Overall conclusion - some get close, but individual pedals are still king.  I stayed with the Line6 M9 and use my own dirt boxes.  The M9 has compactness, simplicity, a lot of effects and pretty good sounds (for a modeller).  If I would use an effect a lot - I would still buy a nice analog pedal.  For cover rock stuff, these modellers sure make it easy for the various effects.

[nateflanigan]

That might amount to 10 units, but that's not toooooo ridiculous  wink

You're a stronger man than me, I think the most I ever had on my board was like 7 pedals, it felt like a total pain to me.

I actually purchased a few units and did side by side comparisions.  Boss GT6, Digitech RP600, TC Nova, Line6 M9 and Line6 M13.  Overall conclusion - some get close, but individual pedals are still king.  I stayed with the Line6 M9 and use my own dirt boxes.  The M9 has compactness, simplicity, a lot of effects and pretty good sounds (for a modeller).  If I would use an effect a lot - I would still buy a nice analog pedal.  For cover rock stuff, these modellers sure make it easy for the various effects.

Good to know, I played the line 6 at guitar center the other day.  I agree, it was super easy to use and I like that you can change the order of the fx, or make a patch that's 3 delays feeding each other or some other weird combination.  I didn't realize at the time that you can store scenes on it, one of my requirements is being able to save presets.  I've also found that the distortions on these things are the weakest links, must have something to do with harmonics and nyquist stuff.  IMHO, the distortions on the Boss, were usable at either extreme of the spectrum, meaning a little boost or crunch was alright or really saturated fuzz with lot's of delay and wha was pretty cool, but the middle was pretty middle of the road.

Tonight I'll try out the digitech.

 FWIW I talked to a friend who's playing with janet jackson right now (how cool is that!) he's using the digitech and the line 6 and likes them both a lot.

[Boots Deville]

Nate, is your friend using one of the M-series Line6 effects modelers or a floor-pod?

I'm following this with interest, so please keep posting your opinions.  I'm a stompbox guy and still not convinced that I could bring myself to get one of these, but... maybe.  I do play regularly in a cover band, and one of these would come in handy.  I would probably build a bypass pedal for it, so I could run straight into the amp for songs that don't require the effects.

A multi-effects unit would also be useful for low-volume rehearsals allow me to be able to plug it into the board.  For that reason, for the line 6 stuff, I would lean more towards a Floor Pod X3 (or XT) instead of the stompbox modelers.  That digitech rp500 looks ok too, so I'm interested to hear your opinions.

[tubesornothing]

  I would probably build a bypass pedal for it, so I could run straight into the amp for songs that don't require the effects.

Check out the pedals, some of them have true bypass (I know the m9 and m13 do, same with TC electronics).

[nateflanigan]

So, I've thrown the digitech rp500 into the mix and spent a lot more time with the TC.

The digitech really isn't what I'm looking for, which is too bad because it's really well made.  You could probably use it to smash all the other units to pieces and turn around and play your set.  The delays and reverbs sound good, but I couldn't push things into the sort of wall of sound territory I'm going for.  The distortions and amp models on the other hand are, to me, very very bad.  I think it's sounds like these that make us regard these types of units as bull shit.  On the usability scale, it falls in between the TC and Boss.

I'm not ready to declare it the winner but, I've changed my tune regarding the TC.  It takes a lot more work than the other units, but it has a kind of pragmatic style that I can relate to.  In that sense, I like that there's no modeling, it's its own thing.  The analog distortion really does sound significantly better than the other units.  It's pretty basic distortion sound, but the fact that it's not trying to be all tones for all songs is probably what makes it so usable.  Unlike the other units it doesn't have a built in expression pedal, fortunately I had one to hook up.  You can set it up to do a lot of cool things, some of which the boss can do others it can't.  In particular I liked setting it to control the drive level of the distortion, I was easily able to control some really cool feedback swells.  On the down side It doesn't have a wha setting, maybe you can set up the expression pedal to sweep the eq but I didn't get there.  It might be for the best anyhow, I should probably just make a nice real wha.  The other effects sound really good and if anything they suffer from too many editable parameters.  Unless you really love a certain chorus or phaser or whatever I think the modulation fx would probably get you where you need to go.  For my purposes it would be more than enough.

I had band practice tonight and planned on running our set with each unit to see how they sounded in context, but I only got to A/B-ing my regular pedals with the TC.  I kept futzing with the delay but really couldn't get it to sound as good as my BYOC delay pedal.  I got it close though, and there's a lot of functionality that the TC (and any other multi effect) has that is truly useful.  There were some songs that I preferred the TC drive to my rat clone, and having a distortion channel as well as a boost is really useful.  The TC doesn't have as many bells and whistles the others and it's a steeper learning curve but it doesn't feel as phony as the other units.  If I stick with the TC I'd likely keep my delay on my pedal board, the rat might be redundant but a real wha and a big thick fuzz would be "necessary" as well.

I look forward to trying the boss with the band, and after I return the digitech I'll order the line 6.

[SLW]

I have a Line 6 Pod XT live that I have had for a few years.  I have never been happy with the amp models when I run the thing into the front of a real amp.  When I run it into the board it works much better.  I have had the chance to a/b test it using the deluxe emulation into the board with a real deluxe reissue.  I could get the Pod to sound ok.  Playing alone I could hear a difference.  When the rest of the band played(another guitar, bass, drums, a big piano and singers) I could not really tell any difference.  The effects are ok.  It is very handy to quickly try out different combinations.  I play it at night when everybody is asleep.  I still like my amp and pedals better.  I do like the sound of my Martin through it using the tube preamp emulation with reverb straight into the board.  I am sure the models will and have gotten better.  I am going to try the "Eleven" one of these days.  It looks like fun.

SLW

[nateflanigan]

Nate, is your friend using one of the M-series Line6 effects modelers or a floor-pod?

m9

[nateflanigan]

I used the Boss Me-70 at band practice tonight.  It's really not a bad unit at all, I know that's not a glowing endorsement, for some reason I don't want to like the Boss.  I think it's because it looks like a multi fx board, it has amp modeling, there's settings for effects I consider lame, but it's really a good unit.  Complaint wise, the expression pedal feels kind of cheap, and when the unit is bypassed (not true bypass) there's some tone sucking.  Not a horrible amount at all, and it would be easy enough to build a little bypass box so I wouldn't consider it a deal breaker.  On the positive, it slotted right into our set really seamlessly, it's very very easy to use, and none of the effects are weak, even the distortions work.  The reverb has to be used sparingly but in small amounts it sounds good, same with the pre-amp/modeling section. 

The line 6 should show up in a few days, hopefully I'll come to a final conclusion this weekend.

[shortfuse]

I use a Pod XT Pro Rack Unit with several add on packs & I love it.  When I go to a friends house once a week i bring it and a guitar, line out of the Pod and line into the back of one of his amps and use it as a power engine for the pod and have all I need to play for the night.  It also keeps him from getting all grumpy from me resetting all his precious knob settings LMAO.  It will also go direct to a mixer board with the option of live or studio sound and it does make a difference.  It has so many features I have only scratched the surface (because I refuse to read the Britannica edition of a manual) and have been happy and able to get the unit to sound the way I want.
Now I still like individual pedals better like the Tone Bone or the BB+ and old CE2 MIJ.  I am a pedal junkie with 25 or more laying around the office where I keep my gear.  Some I built, some I modded, some plain stock.  But for ease and simplicity in a time constrained night to get out and play with the guys the rack mount does the trick for me.  Just my $.02.

Steve

[Platefire]

I use to use multi fx when I was playing in a band that we recording CD's and I used the effect pedal to get the same sounds live as we had on our recordings. I found it worked best for me to send the effects direct to power amp in (bypassing the preamp).

Having two or three effects going at the same time (per patch) for one guitar sound and then maybe having serveral multi patch sounds (chorus/verse/lead) within one song, all pre-programed and levels set makes it managable to accomplish this live. With a pedal board you would have to be super stomper to accomplish all this.

Now that I'm not doing the band/latest CD thing I use pedals and minumize what I do use. My main sound now it tube amp, reverb/delay, distortion/OD, tremolo and occasionally chorus. As far as the latest multi Fx pedal I don't even look at them anymore and wouldn't dare use one unless absolutly necessary. However thay a very convinent for recording as compared to setup required for miking an amp and getting a sound. Plate

[nateflanigan]

I've been helping a friend remodel his kitchen so I've had no time to update this.  I ended up going with the TC Nova system, which is really funny given my initial reaction to it.  I really wasn't that into the line 6, it's hard to say exactly why.  I re-read Plato's cave and Corinthians 13:12, I think it has something to do with "the thing itself" versus a simulation.  The Line 6 is super flexible which is a plus, but for me, it had a lot of unnecessary stuff going on.  Of course it's easy enough to just not use the effects you're not interested in but it felt cluttered in comparison to the TC.  The TC has two nice sounding distortion settings, the line 6 has like 100 crappy ones.  All the units sound pretty different to me and I think most people would agree with that.  I also didn't think any of them sucked, I think it comes down to personal taste and intended use.  In the end the TC won for philosophical reasons as much as anything else, I like the "clean" quality the effects are known for.  Programming sounds is a little more like synth programming which I think a lot of the other units were trying to get away from.  It's harder to do stuff on the fly, but it feels more deliberate to me.

So in conclusion, you'd probably have to do this for yourself to get any real insight, but hopefully I've narrowed the field a little bit.  I really like the TC, I'll keep my old delay and maybe my rat pedal but I don't feel like I'm compromising on sound quality for extra funtionality.  It's its own thing and I think it sounds really good.  Especially when combined with other stuff, for example, a little TC delay and reverb plus a little pedal delay and amp reverb is nicer, thicker, and more 3D sounding than any of those things by themselves.

Having two or three effects going at the same time (per patch) for one guitar sound and then maybe having serveral multi patch sounds (chorus/verse/lead) within one song, all pre-programed and levels set makes it managable to accomplish this live. With a pedal board you would have to be super stomper to accomplish all this.

Now that I'm not doing the band/latest CD thing I use pedals and minumize what I do use. My main sound now it tube amp, reverb/delay, distortion/OD, tremolo and occasionally chorus. As far as the latest multi Fx pedal I don't even look at them anymore and wouldn't dare use one unless absolutly necessary. However thay a very convinent for recording as compared to setup required for miking an amp and getting a sound. Plate

I agree, I think these kinds of units make the most sense in a band situation. 

[tubesornothing]

  The TC has two nice sounding distortion settings, the line 6 has like 100 crappy ones. 

Ain't that the truth.

Like you I liked the effects on the Nova, although the UI drove me a bit nuts.  It was almost a wash between all the systems, nothing really standing out as fantastic.  Since I already have a ton of seperate dirt pedals, I selected the M9 simply because it had more .  It was a toss up between the few nice effects that were in the Nova or the plethora of mediocre effects in the m9. 

If I was doing something like a pink floyd or u2 cover band, I would have a very special rig.  But for a R&R cover band, the M9 covered the field for me.

One sort of goofy thing about the M9 is they don't have "patches" but "scenes".  So rather than string along a series of pedal effects (a patch), you select a scene and all the pdeals on the board change.  Different way of thinking, but I guess I have it figured out.

[nateflanigan]

the UI drove me a bit nuts

I think they all take a little getting used to, the TC kind of reminded me of programming on a Kurzweil synth, which I always had a fondness for for some reason.  And you're definitely right, the line 6 has it's own language, which doesn't seem to borrow as much from established manual speak.  I found certain tasks like setting up an expression pedal on the Line 6 really weird.  Like I'd set it for one parameter then, then decide I wanted to change something, then they'd both be assigned to the pedal... some kind of modulating tar baby. 

In general it seems that distortions are the weakest link in a multi fx unit, which is fortunate since anyone reading this could probably build a great dirt box with $30 and a saturday afternoon.

[Cups]

I recently got a Boss GT8. So far I'm digging it. I'll reserve all out love for it until after I do a couple of gigs.