Vintage 30 vs. G12H

[theundeadelvis]

Hey guys! I'm curious if moving from a WGS Vintage 30 clone to a Celestion G12H might help achieve the sound I'm looking for in my M@tchless inspired amp. The amp right now sounds a little muddy. The bass is real "boomy" and I feel like it's lacking in the mids a bit. I'm wondering the G12H might give me a little more clarity? Anyone have any experience with these 2 speakers, and if so, can you give me an idea of what I might expect? Thanks as always!

[LooseChange]

Either one of those speakers won't cause a muddy problem.

[theundeadelvis]

Muddy may not be the right adjective. I'm not sure how I'd explain it, but I've never liked the Vintage 30 clone in any amp by itself. It sounds good mixed with other speakers, but I've always felt like it was missing something.

[tubesornothing]

When I first ready your description "The amp right now sounds a little muddy. The bass is real "boomy" and I feel like it's lacking in the mids a bit. "  I immediately thought Celstion V30 is a good solution - punchy mids.  But then I re-read it and saw you are using a clone.  I am a little confused.  I wonder if the clone is a poor copy (I have heard a couple of BBQ clones that were poor copies).  Or perhaps  the cab is introducing something.

[theundeadelvis]

Maybe it is my cabinet then. It's a bluesbreaker style/size cab. Maybe I'll stuff some stuff in it to see how it sounds with less volume. Thanks guys!

[OldHouseScott]

The G12H30 is brighter and ballsier than the V30. The V30 has so much mids, it can sound muted or muddy on the top end. The H30 won't get you more mids, but it should improve the clarity. I've got a pair in my Tophat Club Royale and they sound great.

[jojokeo]

I always get confused and know others are confused when talking about Celestions lame use of model numbers for their speakers. Too many G12 types is the culprit for all of the confusion. I then throw in the the word greenback and it's no wonder. G12-30, G12-100, G12-65, G12K, G12T, G12H Heritage, G12M Heritage, G12 Anniversary, etc. etc. etc. - even the blue and golds have G12 on their labels...every 12" speaker says G12 on it somewhere...stupid Celestion! Whew, glad I got that out of me 

That said, I like their speakers mostly. I recently dumped a true V30 out of a JCM800 single combo build after A/B various speakers of which the G12 Heritage was one of them and it was clearer w/ more bottom AND top end but didn't break up as well in the higher gain territory. The G12 sounds fantastic in a 5E3-ish type of build more in cleaner settings and I don't like them for heavy gain type of amps. I ended up going w/ an Eminence Wizard which is one of the best speakers out there all around. Clear, balanced, efficient, sweat, pretty much all of the adjectives you want to attribute for a good sounding speaker.

*I think the amp sounding a certain way "muddy &/or boomish" should be looked at in the tone control section and it's use of coupling caps and/or voltage dividers or bypass caps and such also.

[stingray_65]

*I think the amp sounding a certain way "muddy &/or boomish" should be looked at in the tone control section and it's use of coupling caps and/or voltage dividers or bypass caps and such also.

That is my first impression.

Speaker selection can be very critical when you're searching for a particular sound.

It's my opinion that an amp needs to be Voiced correctly first.

I find that the first preamp is very responsive to the type of guitar pickups used.

My first 5E3 sounds SO wicked good when a Tele or Strat is plugged in, But when you plug in a LesPaul with Humbuckers I get MUD and FLUB.

So now I use a simple switch next to the input jack that switches in a 10 or 20 uF cathode bypass cap to a .68 hard wired cath bypass cap ala Tubenits handy schematic (fat full and bright) http://www.el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=5621.0

I'm by no means saying not to go buy a great speaker like you are thinking, but maybe pick up a different guitar and see how it sounds with your current setup.

If you see a great difference in tone and voicing, you may want to tailor your amp to your guitar and playing style. It may save you  a couple hundred bucks that may not give you any better results than you had before.

Ray

[stingray_65]

I ended up going w/ an Eminence Wizard which is one of the best speakers out there all around. Clear, balanced, efficient, sweat, pretty much all of the adjectives you want to attribute for a good sounding speaker.

I have to say I have a couple Eminence wizards here. One is my test mule speaker I built into the AX84 cab. I end up buying more of these than any other speaker because of its clarity and neutral sound ( they really let the amps voice come through) and DANG they are efficient and LOUD!.

Not to mention you can get some change back from a $100 bill and have it delivered to your door.

Ray