Need help on Tele Upgrade Job

[Platefire]

I just installed shielding, new wiring/electronics and new neck pickup in my Affinity Squire Special BS Tele. The new shielding, wiring kit and pickup did wonders but one flaw I find---------------------------------------In the mid switch position I get that "nasal out of phase" sound.

I think the problem is the Stu Mac "Golden Age" neck pick said it was wired in reverse polarity to obtain the humbucker effect in the mid switch position. I'm thinking I need to reverse the wiring to install the black ground to switch and the white + to ground on vol pot(reverse locations) to correct the problem?

I don't do this eveyday so I would appreciate that someone in the know would look over my shoulders and varify if my thinking is correct or either correct me on what I need to do to get the normal tele mid position sound. Thanks a bunch, Platefire   

[G._Hoffman]

Am I correct in assuming that your pickups are not made by the same manufacturer?  Like, one is a Fender, and the other is the Stew Mac pickup?  This shouldn't be a problem, but Fender winds their pickups backwards from the rest of the world, so they will always have the opposite polarity from other manufacturers pickups.  (This is just Fender doing what they have always done - they've been doing it that way since the 1940's! - and the other company's mostly started by copying Gibson pickups, and they wind all their pickups to work together.)

You are mistaken about the humbucking effect - humbuckers reverse both the winding AND the polarity of the magnets, so you don't get the phase cancellation problem.  If you are getting phase cancellation, only one of the two is reversed - probably the winding.

But the good news is that it's very easy to fix - just swap the black and white wires on one - and only one - of the pickups.  That should take care of it.


Gabriel

[Platefire]

Ok thanks! Platefire

[simonallaway]

and the other company's mostly started by copying Gibson pickups, and they wind all their pickups to work together.)

You are mistaken about the humbucking effect - humbuckers reverse both the winding AND the polarity of the magnets, so you don't get the phase cancellation problem.  If you are getting phase cancellation, only one of the two is reversed - probably the winding.

I apologise in advance for potentially hijacking this thread, but your comment may have shed some light on a recent project.

I have an LP copy that I retrofitted a Seymour Duncan JB SH4 in the bridge and an early 60's PAF, from a 335, in the neck. On their own they sound normal, but together I get that out of phase 'honk'. I actually quite like the tone because I can seemingly control where the notch is by adjusting the volume knobs...anyway....am I seeing something similar? i.e. Seymour Duncan...a modern humbucker, wound differently to the old PAF? I think the PAF I have in the neck position may have originally belonged in the bridge position (judging by wear, and the casting artifacts).

[Willabe]

On their own they sound normal, but together I get that out of phase 'honk'. I actually quite like the tone because I can seemingly control where the notch is by adjusting the volume knobs...anyway....am I seeing something similar?
[/quote]

Yes!

The Peter Green effect. Altho there's debate on how he realy did it, that was a big part of his sound.

Some guys like it and set up their guitars that way. Thinner sound for rythmn and cleaner lead parts and then just turn a knob and get back that full fat sound. It works great for some guys.

Do what Gab says and see which you like better.      


                   Brad              

[G._Hoffman]

Do what Gab says and see which you like better.      

Except it doesn't really work the same for Gibson pickups, because the ground is the shield.  But you can swap the black and the green on the Seymour, if you have a four wire pickup.


The problem with old Gibson pickups is that they aren't always consistent.  In theory, they should all match the polarity of a Seymour Duncan pickup, but in practice, they don't always.  At some point in their history they got their stuff together, and now they are all the same.


Gabriel

[simonallaway]

Do what Gab says and see which you like better.     

But you can swap the black and the green on the Seymour, if you have a four wire pickup.

Hmmm. I might add a pull switch on one of the pots so I can switch the phase. of the Seymour Duncan. A nice quick project.

[Platefire]

I'm kind of having the same thoughts----I don't use the mid position that much on the tele, mostly the neck or bridge idiviually---I think I'm going to leave the out of phase sound as is on the mid position and just try it for a while. I can decide what to do about it latter. Platefire

[Platefire]

This really turned out good! I finally got around to re-wiring the pickups in-phase like normal and I definately like the normal mid-position tele sound better. Guess I'm becoming more and more a tele freak! 

[EL34]

On Fender pickups that had the plastic bobbins, I used to shove the magnets out one end and reverse them.
Of course that won't work on a pickup that has the wire wound right against the magnet surface.
Only bobbins that have plastic sleeves and the magnet is inside the sleeve.

I kept a small pickup magnet on my bench with the plus end marked in red sharpy.

You can hold the small magnet up to the magnets on a pickup and tell if the magnet attracts or repels.
Now you know which way the magnets are inserted.

You can take pickup covers off and determine which way the wire is wound.

[G._Hoffman]

On Fender pickups that had the plastic bobbins, I used to shove the magnets out one end and reverse them.
Of course that won't work on a pickup that has the wire wound right against the magnet surface.
Only bobbins that have plastic sleeves and the magnet is inside the sleeve.

I kept a small pickup magnet on my bench with the plus end marked in red sharpy.

You can hold the small magnet up to the magnets on a pickup and tell if the magnet attracts or repels.
Now you know which way the magnets are inserted.

You can take pickup covers off and determine which way the wire is wound.

Or, you can try it, and if it sounds weird, you can swap the black and white wires.  It's not like they are shielded, in which case it would be a problem. 


Gabriel

[Platefire]

I considered installing a DPDT to switch between in phase and out of phase but I decided I don't really like the out of phase sound enough to justify it. That sound is good when your in that paticular mood and want to be kind of silly or off the wall. Peter Green did a lot with it on his old LP.