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Hoffman Amps Forum image Author Topic: Conn Organ Amp thoughts (Schematic included)  (Read 10857 times)

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Offline LooseChange

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Conn Organ Amp thoughts (Schematic included)
« on: May 14, 2011, 06:44:58 am »
I have a couple of Conn Organ Amps coming in.  They have great iron and seem like a good candidate for a couple of power amps in one chassis.
Take a look at the schematic (searched hard for this one!).

Tell me what you think of the power supply with V14, Whats up with V12 and V13.
Any thoughts would be welcome....


Call me Dan
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Offline sluckey

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Re: Conn Organ Amp thoughts (Schematic included)
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2011, 07:07:18 am »
V12 and V13 is an oddball. Never seen that before.

V14 is a gas filled voltage regulator tube. When current flows through it, the tube drops a constant voltage. Think of it as a 75v zener.

A schematic, layout, and hi-rez pics are very useful for troubleshooting your amp. Don't wait to be asked. JUST DO IT!

Offline LooseChange

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Re: Conn Organ Amp thoughts (Schematic included)
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2011, 08:24:27 am »
I think V12 and V13 are the tremolo oscillator. BUT. part of it is off the chassis so it would be hard to reproduce. BUT, I could add another OT and make a third power amp in this one chassis!

The amp has all sorts of power options. The two different voltages off of the PT and the regulated voltages you just mentioned.  I think I need to strip most of that stuff out. Leave the two B+ voltages for the two different power tubes and build around that.
What do you think?
Call me Dan
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Offline RicharD

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Re: Conn Organ Amp thoughts (Schematic included)
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2011, 08:50:46 am »
That is odd.  Where do Y7 & X6 come from?  Are those inductive loads part of the 5 1/4" speakers?

Offline DummyLoad

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Re: Conn Organ Amp thoughts (Schematic included)
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2011, 06:06:18 pm »
to me it looks like the 12AV6s, V12 & V13 P-P AM modulate the B+ to the 2nd amp; V10,V12. V7 is a DC coupled gain-stage+cathodyne, and the LFO seems to be off-board on the preamp chassis.

essentially what you have is 3 amps - 1 big amp, 1 smaller amp, and 1 modulator amp that modulates the smaller amp.

leave it as is - bond the inputs, V3 and V4. steal fender trem osc. cktry to drive V7. -OR- use 2nd amp as reverb amp?  

--DL

edit: oh yeah! that thing looks like it'd be a cool project...  :icon_biggrin:  
« Last Edit: May 14, 2011, 06:09:19 pm by DummyLoad »

Offline HotBluePlates

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Re: Conn Organ Amp thoughts (Schematic included)
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2011, 08:18:40 pm »
Could it be that the inductive loads of V12 and V13 are field coils for the 5-1/4" speakers. I've never seen it done or discussed, but could you inject trem directly at the speakers by varying the presence/lack of saturation on those field coils (assuming that's what they are)?

Offline DummyLoad

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Re: Conn Organ Amp thoughts (Schematic included)
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2011, 10:15:52 pm »
Could it be that the inductive loads of V12 and V13 are field coils for the 5-1/4" speakers....


it appears that they are. i thought that might have been the case at first as well, but schematic does not make reference to that fact. the photo below confirms that it is so. seems as though 2 of the wires to the 5 1/4" spkr field coil on the left have been cut and taped up in the bundle above it.



I've never seen it done or discussed...

and now we have.  :smiley: it's seems like a really cool idea. finding replacement speakers would be a drag though...   :dontknow:
« Last Edit: May 14, 2011, 10:21:01 pm by DummyLoad »

Offline RicharD

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Re: Conn Organ Amp thoughts (Schematic included)
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2011, 10:22:43 pm »
Roll yer own field coil speakers.   :dontknow:

Offline DummyLoad

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Re: Conn Organ Amp thoughts (Schematic included)
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2011, 10:37:08 pm »
Roll yer own field coil speakers.   :dontknow:

nah! found one in wissskhaaansiiinnn...  125 clams  :icon_biggrin:

--DL

Offline PRR

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Re: Conn Organ Amp thoughts (Schematic included)
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2011, 01:03:06 am »
Wind a lot of turns around the speaker magnetic circuit. (This probably forces an Alnico; ceramic pots don't leave any good place for turns of wire.) Run DC through it one way or the other. One way "the magnet gets stronger", the other way weaker. Speaker output is roughly blah-blah TIMES magnet strength. You have adjustable output. If the "DC" is slowly varying, you have amplitude modulation, tremolo.

The oscillator is in another box (console). This is just the booster to make the several Watts power needed to fight/aid the magnet.

Offline LooseChange

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Re: Conn Organ Amp thoughts (Schematic included)
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2011, 06:15:19 am »
Wow... That Conn organ has a lot of tubes!
The current plan is to build three amps out of this chassis.
The 6L6's will have a preamp. The 12V6 with the OT already installed will be a power amp and the other pair will have an OT installed from a second unit and also be a power amp. This is someone elses idea. I'm juts the designer/builder.
Call me Dan
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Offline LooseChange

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Re: Conn Organ Amp thoughts (Schematic included)
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2011, 06:19:18 am »
AAfter looking at that picture for a bit. What's the idea around those two tremolo speakers in the box? How does the sound get out of the organ? And how does it compete with those 12" speakers?
Call me Dan
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Offline Willabe

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Re: Conn Organ Amp thoughts (Schematic included)
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2011, 09:21:03 am »
Looks like it comes out the front, like the 12" on the left, from the back side. The box is attached to the front baffel on one side.

Whats with all the little transformers up top? Or are they chokes?


            Brad       :think1: 

Offline sluckey

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Re: Conn Organ Amp thoughts (Schematic included)
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2011, 09:52:59 am »
They're probably part of the oscillator LC tank circuit.
A schematic, layout, and hi-rez pics are very useful for troubleshooting your amp. Don't wait to be asked. JUST DO IT!

Offline DummyLoad

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Re: Conn Organ Amp thoughts (Schematic included)
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2011, 12:46:33 pm »
What's the idea around those two tremolo speakers in the box?

the box is the housing for the expression pedal.

How does the sound get out of the organ?

through the opening for the expression pedal.

--DL

Offline PRR

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Re: Conn Organ Amp thoughts (Schematic included)
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2011, 02:37:47 pm »
> Whats with all the little transformers up top? Or are they chokes?

Where do notes come from? Guitars have strings. Harmonicas have reeds. Pipe-organs have pipes. Hammond has spinning tooth-wheels.

Electronic organs use oscillators.

They could run 32-90 oscillators one-per-note. That's almost as bad as a piano, worse because audio oscillators drift more than good pianos, even worse because the idea was to sell to ordinary people who couldn't tune a guitar, much less a piano.

There is a short-cut. Octave is simple 2:1. If you have a high A, you can get the A an octave down with a simple astable, and it WILL be same-pitch an octave lower. So you build a "top octave", twelve oscillators A thru G with semitones. Then you have 12 dividers per lower octave, maybe 8 octaves total so one oscillator and 7 dividers per note. The higher pitch top oscillator will tend to be more stable than lower audio frequency oscillators. Since there's only 12, you can build them extra good. When tuning is needed, there's just 12 screws for the whole instrument (little more than a guitar, far less than the 150-190 pins on a piano) so the tuning doesn't take a whole hour.

I'm not sure how this one is organ-ized. There's 9 modules with 6 bottles each. I'd expect 12 of something, and surely more than 6 octaves available (even if the manual is 3-octave, the stops let you layer different intervals on the same keys).

> How does the sound get out of the organ? And how does it compete with those 12" speakers?

In a classic pipe organ there is a box several feet wide, filled with pipes. The side facing the room has doors or shutters that open/close via a foot-pedal. Same as the go-pedal in your car opens the throttle-flap in the engine, only much bigger. Door open, the pipe sound goes mostly into the room. (Yes, phase is incoherent but so what?) Door closed, the sound is much softer. "Swell" is opening the doors during a musical passage. Tremolo is when you shimmy the swell pedal.

It seems this is the same idea on two 5" speakers in a 6-inch box. A small swell chest's doors need a strong leg, a big church-organ needs power assisted swell pedal; obviously this little flap could be worked directly with a small child's foot.

But then why, having a swell-chest, didn't they gimmick a tremolo motor to the swell-flap? More control of rate and depth? Cheaper?

> how does it compete with those 12" speakers?

The Fives are very efficient. The Twelves trade sensitivity for extended bass.

Also an organ "knows" where each note comes from. To over-simplify: notes from the left hand are low and sound through mellow filters to the 30 Watt and Twelves. Notes from the right hand are mid-high and sound through the 14 Watt and Fives. Two separate instruments. In many organ passages, the Twelves just loaf; but you gotta have them to impress the customer with a few heavy-bass riffs. The ratio 14W/50W mids/bass is not that different from a 50 Watt guitar playing with a 200 Watt bass.

Offline jerrydyer

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Re: Conn Organ Amp thoughts (Schematic included)
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2016, 03:31:52 pm »
I know this is old but i just got a Conn tube amp that has 26l6's and a 5u4gb but i cant figure out the input tube and driver. Not 12ax7 set up. Anyone still have info on these. there were quite a few diff models.


thank you

Offline eleventeen

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Re: Conn Organ Amp thoughts (Schematic included)
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2016, 04:04:13 pm »
Terrific amp for parts and stuff. You will find that many of the tubes are lit up with a 12.6 volt filament. Your oscillators are 36 qty 12 AU7 and we start to talk about 20+ amps of heater current if we don't light up some tubes off 12v.


The two things I will tell you is (having a similar one, without the 6L6, but with 4 qty 12V6.


1: You will most likely find that the layout of the original chassis prevents you from laying out a row of tone controls in typical fashion, along a long side of the chassis. I was not able to visualize doing so without cutting the entire top out of the chassis and slapping on a flat plate that rearranged everything except for the PT. Which is what I did. Your mileage may vary, but what I am saying is to not get married to the idea of building your amp in that chassis.


2: 12V6 are available sometimes very cheap, $4-$5. NOS American tubes. I have a set of GEs and a set of Sylvanias NIB that were like $10 delivered.


By the way, are you getting the sub-chassis that all the 12AU7s are mounted on, the oscillators? Because they make superb "breadboard" type chassis. Strip them down but leave all the terminal strips and tube sockets. Run them with tubes upside down and they work very well for preamp experimentation. You don't necessarily need 8 or 9 of them but a couple would be good to grab.


« Last Edit: February 03, 2016, 10:51:28 pm by eleventeen »

 


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