Which has more gain, a 5E3 or a 5G9?

[RobBozic]

Can someone tell me which has more gain, a 5E3 style circuit or the 5E9-A? Assuming power supply dropping voltages are the same.

Or yo put it another way, does the extra gain stage & cathodyne PI of the 5E3 drive the 6V6's harder than the LTP PI of the 5E9-A?

Thanks
Rob

[FYL]

Gain is slightly higher in the 5E3 gain stage than in the 5E9-A balanced paraphase gain/PI stage but both can more than adequately slam the 6V6GTs.

[tubeswell]

Both are adequate for gigging amps in small clubs and similar venues. However, they both start to get lost when somebody else has a 5F6A or a tweed twin - but who needs to be that loud anyhow?

As for the amplification factor, the 5G9 and 5E3 are different amps. The 5G9 is designed to run cleaner overall, but the stock circuit eventually dirties-up when its dimed. It has more bite when driven and sounds fantastic with a hotcake in front of it if you want to do overdriven. It can even be quite bloomy and saggy this way. It also sounds excellent with a stand alone reverb unit in front (because it is a cleaner amp)

Whereas the 5E3 has more dirt, compression and sag naturally. (But it doesn't have that amazing trem)

[HotBluePlates]

Your title said "5G9" but I'm going to assume your typing reflects what you really want to know; that is, how does the 5E3 compare to a 5E9 (or 5E9-A Tremolux).

I have a 5E3 copy, and I used to own a '55 5E9 Tremolux. Six of one, half-dozen of the other, excpet the Tremolux has trem and a bigger cabinet. They both sound essentially the same, and the name "Tremolux" comes from "Deluxe, with tremolo."

The changed phase inverter was all about having a method of injecting the trem signal with causing audible pumping at the speaker when nothing is being played. Leo Fender had it patented. But a paraphase offers roughly the same gain as a split-load inverter plus its pre-gain stage ahead of the inverter. Both systems use two triodes and arrive at basically the same end goal.

If we're strictly talking abut capability, the paraphase is capable of a larger output signal swing than a split-load inverter, if both use the same B+ voltage. That's because the paraphase needs a given triode to only supply one output signal with that supply voltage, while the split-load has to supply 2 output signals and still have some voltage left over across the triode.

Either inverter can be made to work if you need only a relatively small output signal to drive your output tubes, which is generally the case with 6V6's (especially lower voltage cathode bias circuits) and EL84's. Split-load inverters can also work supplying larger output signals if care is taken with the design, and if adequate supply voltage is available.

[Willabe]

What about the 5G9? How does the gain it has stand compared to the 5E3 and 5E9?


       Thanks,    Brad     

[tubeswell]

I see that Rob edited his post to change it to 5E9A (after I replied). Obviously the 5E9A and the 5G9 are quite different amps, they amplify their signal in a different way at the PI and the trem is way different. The 5G9 trem is king. The 5G9 is in keeping with Leo's evolution to get cleaner amps over time and takes pedals and reverb units way better than a 5E3 or a 5E9A for this reason. With a hotcake in front, it is unbelievably huge-sounding at low volumes. Bloom and sag like you've never heard. Well that's my experience of it anyhow

[RobBozic]

Thanks guys.

I actually was originally thinking of the differences bertween the AC cathodyne PI plus extra gain stage of the 5E3 versus the LTP of the 5G9. Assuming all else is equal (same biasing & dropping resistors etc...), I asumed the 5E9A also had a LTP PI, but I was wrong.

Anyway, thanks for your response gents.

Rob