amps for jazz ?

[worth]

What does a jazz player look for in an amp ? Would any of the usual vintage Fenders be a good choice ?

[LooseChange]

If you mean classic Jazz, I'd say a clean, warm tone.

[frank57]

You might consider the Polytone brute amp used by just about a who's who of jazz guitar.
http://www.polytoneamps.com/photo_player_flash1.html
I think George Benson still uses them.No tubes needed.

Also Hiwatt might be a good choice with a nice clean warm sound.

[tubenit]

If you mean classic Jazz, I'd say a clean, warm tone.

I agree with that if it's classic jazz. A blackface Deluxe (non-reverb) would be worth considering especially if you had an effects loop added.

The best classic jazz player that I have personally known used a Polytone solid state amp and also a some model of Mesa Boogie for a more modern jazz tone.

Robin Ford and Larry Carlton (who are blues/jazz) players use Dumble amps. Jeff Golub uses Fuchs and VibroKings.

With respect, Tubenit

[Lizard King]

Sacrilege on this board but a Roland JC-120 really is a nice amp....

[jjasilli]

If you mean classic Jazz, I'd say a clean, warm tone.

Ditto.  I'm thinking Ampeg.  But today jazz tone can run the gammit, into overdrive.

[bigsbybender]

In the tube realm old-style Ampeg is the way to go.

 I see Polytone or Roland with a vast majority of Jazz ensembles.

I played in my College Jazz band with a Twin Reverb.... the music director derided it as "too hot" or "too rock and roll". (mainly meaning bright).


I eventually switched to my Supro-made Wards-Airline bass amp.... it was darker/warmer sounding with a 15" speaker, not totally jazzy but made the director happier.

[thermion]

polytone through a 1x15 closed back cab gets my vote.
I imagine the Phil Jones Pure Sound stuff is killer too.
the mesa may have been a blue angel?

[triode]

Subdued.. dark, plenty of bottom, clean, harmonic. 15" is one thing to consider. Not to plug myself too much, I make a jazz amp thats 40W, single 15, light reverb, manual overdrive that is a mild overdrive. But the amp was made to have lots of harmonic content...

As someone else said, it runs the gamut. I have a customer with a 100W modded dumble I built. He only plays jazz. Another guy loves a deluxe for jazz, still another is a Roland Jazz Chorus (whoa). Steve Masakowski of Astral Project plays a Crate...every now and then a SF Fender. I talked to him at length one time, he said he did not care about the amp at all, sort of in a Wes Montgomery kind of way. It was a tool, like a hammer. I walked away in a fog of broken thoughts...

[Willabe]

I thought Wes played a BF SR for years?


             Brad     

[terminalgs]

Here's Wes in the studio in front of an Ampeg Gemini I.   Of course, Ampeg's were in every NYC studio in the 60's.   Wes played Fender Supers, and Twins.   He was discerning about amps, and played the speaker game (maybe he went back and forth between Jensens, JBLs,  alnicos and ceramics??).  In a Guitar Player interview he talked about the speakers being the most important part of the gear setup because it is what you ultimately  hear, and he indicated he was never happy with his sound.   He also played Standels.  Grant Green played twins (tweed?) and ampegs, Jim Hall used a GA50, Tal Farlow played gibsons and twins.



Then when SS hit, guys like Joe Pass and George Benson switched to Polytones and Roland JC's.   The SS stuff is a lot lighter  than tube stuff, and companies like Polytone and Roland seemed to be happy to cater to jazz dudes in the 70s, while, clearly, ampeg and fender were focusing elsewhere.

so, for your question "Would any of the usual vintage Fenders be a good choice ?"

I'd say,  for a fender, an SS recto, fixed bias push-pull model,  that is loud enough with the guitar player's pickup for whatever size room or volume he wants to play at.... bandmaster...? super? twin?



clean is key for jazz tone.

almost any amp will distort at max volume, so I think these guys liked an amp if they could play loud enough without distorting  at whatever room they played.  original jazz guys  played P90 and 59 style humbuckers instead of telecasters. I suspect most jazz dudes thinking about tone are looking to Green/Burrell/Montgomery/Pass/etc who all played  all lower impedance p/u'd compared to modern PUs, and tele's.   I don't know when the strat came into the jazz guitar picture, (maybe with Robben Ford? )   Roy Buchanan plugs into a JC and its sweet SS compressed OD city.     jazz guys also didn't like carrying heavy amps (i don't think there was enough money in jazz guitar to afford amp toting roadies,  not unless Benson probably), that why ampeg had the ampeg-turn-key guitarist club, or whatever they called it.,  and its why polytone minibrutes were popular.

a great jazz tone was Les Paul.  what did he play?   low-impedance pickups into transformer preamps into Gibsons or direct into the board?

[HotBluePlates]

Here's Wes in the studio in front of an Ampeg Gemini I. ... He also played Standels.

Notably, Wes' Standel amps were the solid state versions of the 60's. At least they still used nice JBL speakers.

[P Batty]

... a great jazz tone was Les Paul.  what did he play?   low-impedance pickups into transformer preamps into Gibsons or direct into the board?

Les Paul recorded straight through the board, with lo-z pups.  He used a 130w UL SFTR when he played in NYC in his later years.

P.S. There is a Standel amp behind Wes in that studio shot.

[HotBluePlates]

I saw that! I didn't know (prior to starting a Standel project) that they did front-facing control panels before Fender did.

[topbrent]

Subdued.. dark, plenty of bottom, clean, harmonic. 15" is one thing to consider. Not to plug myself too much, I make a jazz amp thats 40W, single 15, light reverb, manual overdrive that is a mild overdrive. But the amp was made to have lots of harmonic content...

Details?  Topology?

Clean headroom?

[teisco88]

There is sort of a BC/AD break point in jazz guitar that occurs in the 1960s.  Prior to this point (mid-60s) everyone used tube amps.  There was some variety, to be sure, and it mattered whether you were gigging or recording.  If there was such a thing as THE jazz amp, it was either the Fender Twin Amp or the Gibson GA-50T (talking about the 1950s).  Both amps could produce clean headroom and a great sound with archtop guitars.  Jim Hall's great 50s sound featured the Gibson ES-175 through the Gibson GA-50T (his amp has recently been up for sale).  Herb Ellis once told me that if the Twin weren't such a PITA to lug around it was the best sounding amp to play jazz through.

Many studios supplied a smaller amp for recording.  Rudy Van Gelder had a Fender Deluxe amp in his New Jersey studio that many guitarists recorded with (Kenny Burrell, Grant Green, Wes Montgomery).  At low volumes the Deluxe is an awesome jazz amp.

As has been noted in the thread, Wes Montgomery played and recorded through tube Fenders and Ampegs early on. 

This was all "BC."  Once solid-state amps became available, many jazz guys jumped on the bandwagon (er, bandstand).  Wes Montgomery, of course, started using solid-state Standel amps (check out YouTube footage).  By the 1970s things had simplified greatly.  You had all the guys who had jumped over to the Polytone solid state amps.  The rest would just ask for a Twin Reverb to be supplied.  George Benson would actually use both.  When the Polytone MiniBrute arrived on the scene, retaining the power of the earlier Polytone combos in a much smaller package, just about everybody made the switch.  Operating into a low-impedance speaker load (typically 4-ohms or less), MiniBrutes worked hard and achieved a warm sound, even at low volumes. 

After the 1970s and 1980s, all sorts of amps surfaced in jazz.  Now, you are apt to see just about anything on a jazz gig.  Boutique amps--sure thing.  Acoustic Image Clarus Amp with high end cabinet--regularly.  Henriksen--great successor to the Polytone. 

Tell you what, though: if you can get it to the gig, the old Fender Twin Reverb is still tough to beat--after all those years.  At low volume, an archtop sounds excellent.  Dial the volume up some and you can solo over anything.

[smackoj]

I'll take a Twin Rev anyday for almost any type of live gig....but make sure there's a young buck to bring in from the bus up on stage....otherwise, I'll settle for a Valco Supreme or an early BF Deluxe hold the reverb.