When the chase becomes more important....

[12AX7]

....than a final result. Anyone else feel the same as me? That is to say, i have long since gotten my main amp design to sound easily better than the amps i use as a reference and was quite happy with as gigging amps for years. Yet the promise of finding some holy grail of circuit design that just drops jaws has become more important than a final result that i am 100% happy with.  It's become a hobby that involves seeing just how incredible a tone i can come up with. At the moment my main amp is easily better sounding and feeling than my reference amps yet i can't leave it alone. My mind is always thinking about it and comes up with countless ideas that i just have to try no matter how happy i am with the tone. When i hit a point where it's just absolutely to drool for, i can't stand the thought that i may be done. It would mean i don't get to play the game anymore !

Actually i'm glad because i love the chase. I also know i will likely never make it better, only different in an equally good way. But it's too darn fun to stop ! Anyone else feel the same?

[Platefire]

Well I would confess that I think about amps all the time for sure even sometimes when I don't want to be!    I find myself in the strangest times and places maybe start thinking about an amp problem/issue I had with an amp years ago and start trouble shooting it again in my head. Then I have to make an extra effort to re-focus because I need to be dong something else at the time.

The unconquerd horizon for me is channel switching. Two channels clean and drive. Seperate controls for each channel. One channel with wonderful fender clean tones and the other drive channel with fat distortion with a lot of variation. My Mesa Boggie Rocket 440 is the closest thing I have to it right now but the clean channel don't get Fendery clean enough(close but not completly) and the drive channel don't have seperate tone controls. So yeah I guess you could say I'm still chasing------------

[bluesbear]

I tried for years to put together a 2 channel amp with seperate controls. It was easy to design and wire. What I couldn't do is fit it into a chassis/cabinet I was willing to haul around. It's the knobs!! My first principle is "small and light as possible". Even as a head, it would have been as wide as a 2 - 12" cabinet! Not for me. I like a modified hot switch.
I agree with the premise that it's more fun to design 'em than to play 'em. I have what I think is the perfect design for me but you just never know... the next idea might even be better!
Dave

[TIMBO]

Hi guys, Great topic.I have only been involved with amp building for a short time and what i have learn't from being on this forum has been priceless and as they say "a little bit of knowledge IS dangerous". I have been a house builder for many years and have built houses of many different shapes and sizes and every time when a house was built i could stand back and say "I BUILT THAT" and that is a FANTASTIC feeling. I don't build houses as such any more (but still in the building industry) I can still be building things that make a beautiful sound (not when i play them   ) and say "I BUILT THAT". As for the on going ADDICTION i feel the same and its the sound in your head that you wish to produce seems to be unobtainable so therefore the quest to build the HOLY GRAIL will always be there and there is never enough time in the day/night to silence the ADDICTION.
I have just completed the TOS II which was a rebuild of the original TOS that Tubenit has spent countless hours of tweaking to be able to produce yet another fantastic amp and i will say again the sounds produced are incredible and no sooner have i stuffed it all back into it's box and put it in it's place on the WALL OF AMPS he comes up with some more tweaks that can be done      
I will at some stage try these tweaks but it is keeping me from doing my NEXT build   and as i am typing this my wife looks at my desk with eyes rolled into the back of head and mutters " WHAT ARE YOU UP TO NOW" and my only reply can be " YOU KNOW" and then she walks away shaking her head. She is great and always supportive of my hobby and wants my to slow down on the building and put more time into playing the guitar but you know how it is.......................................

Thanks to all and happy building  

[HotBluePlates]

After a while, you'll probably decide there's no such thing as one "holy grail" amp.

So do what I'm doing:
Learn a new and completely different style of playing, and build yourself a new amp that suits that style perfectly.

[12AX7]

After a while, you'll probably decide there's no such thing as one "holy grail" amp.

Absolutely. I long since have come to realize that because for one thing your ears change day to day hour to hour, even minute to minute. So no matter how perfect you think it is it's not going to sound that way to you every time. Then theres the fact that even if it did sound perfect every time, eventually you'd get tired of the same sound no matter how good. So there literally cannot be a holy grail or perfect amp. It's human nature. There are however always certain things you will never get close enough to even be that changing thing that at times sounds like the grail. For example, i have never been able to get my amp to sound nearly as good loud as at lower levels. I have tried a trillion things but still not close. So that alone keeps me going. I fear tho that one day i will whip that issue and have to start trying to perfect a whole new design. 

[sluckey]

Blame it on tubenit and geezer. They just keep raising the bar!   

[zendragon63]

Great topic and insights.

After a while, you'll probably decide there's no such thing as one "holy grail" amp.

Amen. Except for the complete off-the-wall failures--and to my credit I have several--each amp voltage profile, gain schedule combinations, tone stack choice and placement, etc. gives it its own tone and response character and provides its own palette of sound. Vary the bias, roll it off and snub to our hearts content!

I only know that the player usually 'makes' the amp so the chops almost always trump the circuit choice. Regards

dennis

[PRR]

> i can't leave it alone. My mind is always thinking about it and comes up with countless ideas that i just have to try no matter how happy i am

Sounds like my neighbor George.... and women.

He pays a lot of child support.

[12AX7]

> i can't leave it alone. My mind is always thinking about it and comes up with countless ideas that i just have to try no matter how happy i am

Sounds like my neighbor George.... and women.

He pays a lot of child support.

Yeah, but all i have to pay for is a few bucks worth of caps and resistors. 

[John]

> i can't leave it alone. My mind is always thinking about it and comes up with countless ideas that i just have to try no matter how happy i am

Sounds like my neighbor George.... and women.

He pays a lot of child support.

One of the funniest things I hear ... "and then my 3rd wife" ....

[Dave]

I am exactly the same way. I am always teaking and retweaking and then forgetting what I have done and then trying to rediscover what I did. It is an endless game of at and mouse.
Like Platefire, I have always looked for the perfect 2 or 3 channel amp that "does it all".
I have an expensive commercial amp (I got it cheap) that "does it all". It seems to be the perfect amp. I would really like to come up with a DIY amp that "does it all" so I can sell the expensive one.
I have another "not quite so expensive" commercial amp that almost (after a lot of tweaking) does it all. I have a couple of other tweaks in mind that might get me there ...... or maybe not.

One thing I find that I do a lot. Is, since I have a knack for picking up older peaveys and carvins and things like that for pennies on the dollar, is trying to force those amps to sound like the amp in my head. It has not happened yet, but I still try.

Dave

[Ritchie200]

Blame it on tubenit and geezer. They just keep raising the bar!   

And if 'Nit would get a decent guitar, just think how great they would sound!!!

Jimbob

[shortfuse]

Great thread.  I am always looking at different designs.  Read almost everything in Dougs library, don't understand it all yet but I am making headway.  I to am looking for that perfect dual channel amp.  My list right now goes TOS, Revibe, and then Sluckey's dual channel Marshall amp.  I am up to 8 amps now 4 of which I built myself.  The Mrs says 2 have to go before I can build another or bring one home.  So I will have to stash 2 at a friend house till it is safe to reintroduce them back home.  I was on the road working gone 12 days and home a day in a half for almost 2 years this forum and Dougs site kept me out of trouble and busy every night.  That is until the Mrs flew to KC to help me pack the Apt and drive back home and assisted in the packing and loading of 4 amps so I was in trouble the last day there.  Thanks to all of you for getting me in trouble I would have it no other way.

[Platefire]

I am making progress on my amp building and understanding but when I see some of the amps made by those on this forum, I feel I'm still back in the dark ages. Awesome builds!! Never-the-less I'll keep plugging along-------

[Ritchie200]

Great thread.  I am always looking at different designs.  Read almost everything in Dougs library, don't understand it all yet but I am making headway.  I to am looking for that perfect dual channel amp.  My list right now goes TOS, Revibe, and then Sluckey's dual channel Marshall amp.  I am up to 8 amps now 4 of which I built myself.  The Mrs says 2 have to go before I can build another or bring one home.  So I will have to stash 2 at a friend house till it is safe to reintroduce them back home.  I was on the road working gone 12 days and home a day in a half for almost 2 years this forum and Dougs site kept me out of trouble and busy every night.  That is until the Mrs flew to KC to help me pack the Apt and drive back home and assisted in the packing and loading of 4 amps so I was in trouble the last day there.  Thanks to all of you for getting me in trouble I would have it no other way.

Wow, that's a tough row to hoe - away from family for that long.  Surely your Mrs understands your need to stay busy, in a good way!  Great story.

Jim

[tubenit]

I think I live in that zone that is somewhere between being compulsive looking for a "better" tone .............. to legitimately thinking of new things to try to shape towards that ideal tone I hear in my head. 

Having said that, I do NOT spend enough time learning how to play the guitar. When I hear people like Geezer and  Zendragon do their soundclips ......... I realize I am neglecting the better pursuit of becoming a better guitarist.

Regarding ..............

And if 'Nit would get a decent guitar, just think how great they would sound!!!

Jimbob     

I would like to point out the guy smiling so big over his strat is blue and doesn't have any ears ................      just saying ......

With respect, Tubenit

[Willabe]

I would like to point out the guy smiling so big over his strat is blue and doesn't have any ears ................      just saying ......

         


        Brad       

[Rev D]

 Heh, funny stories... I could say I've long since given up on the Holy Grail, but that wouldn't be totally true. I have come to conclusions that have become apparent to me as far as what I like and what I think is the sound that I like.

 I lean more towards the dark side of Marshall tones, but gotten old and beat up so a 4x12 is unlikely anymore (not to mention times have changed and stage volumes have gratefully decreased dramatically). I'm stumbling forward towards even the darker side of Trainwreck circuits finally and I know that's going to be a forehead slap season of debugging oscillation which will undoubtedly happen when I get it finished.

 I've found my tastes in sounds has changed so much from the old Blackface sounds I can't even believe it myself. Whats even dumber is I'm more of a rhythm player with a few lead chops, so a Wreck is probably wasted on me, but it comes down to something we all probably go though. I want one...

 Heh, do we need a Hiwatt? No but gosh we want one.. Same with a number of other amps, its not about need, presently what I need is a amp that works, so many of mine are currently in various stages of rebuild or neglect. I'm lucky in that my wife doesn't even question if I'm building a new amp, most of the time I'm recycling ones that were 'ok' when I built them and gigged for quite a while and then its on to the next, so often its just a matter of a new board and a few new caps or resistors to change it into whatever.


 I wish everyone well with they're endeavor's and those with the bad cases of "because I want one"! Good luck, and hide those amp's and online charges well guys!  

Regards,

Don  

[12AX7]

I should say that you kinda have to read between the lines, but when i said "holy grail" i didn't necessarily mean the perfect amp. It was simply 2 word phrase i used to where i was trying to imply, w/o having to type and even longer post, that the chase is about always thinking theres room for improvement, and that now and then come up with ideas i have to try and implement to see if maybe theres another step on the ladder i can bring the amp up to. Not necessarily looking for perfection at all, just that you always wonder of it can be better. In fact, i think we already know any amp can be improved, and thats why it's hard to stop tweaking, because we know that. And i also knowing it can be as simple as adding one lousy component or changed value.

[Rev D]

 Yeah i know what you meant. Any guitarist does, we're always searching for better, but heck I wouldn't have it any other way.. (Except Woman, I've learned there is not a holy grail when it comes to woman, so your better to keep the one you got long as you only have loud discussions every now and then. Cheaper to keep her as the song says haha   ).

Regards,

Don

[12AX7]

I gave up trying to tweak women years ago....it was apparent to me that like a digital modeler, they're impossible to modify.