Turtles and Beavers and Snakes..... Oh my!

[Dave]

Hey fellows,

Well, here's the latest from the homestead.

I am trying to deal (humanely) with a few pesky little critters.
My wife, my daughter and I bought, about a year ago, the last house we ever intend to live in. Its THAT PLACE, you know, the one we have worked towards our entire lives. Its on 18 acres of nice dirt, but 6 of those acres are an hour glass shaped pond complete with all the biological fixins.
I can keep the turtles culled out by trapping them and relocating them to a more suitable environment. I can keep the snakes culled out with a shotgun, but two days ago I ran into a much bigger problem.
One thing the place doesn't have is a lot of trees. I really like trees, and I have been planting nice trees in strategic locations to make my home more like my dream home.
(Ominous music here) I just got my first beaver. Now some of you guys might be of a mind to congratulate me on that achievement, but unlike most of you, I don't like beavers.
So far, he has only made a mess of some not-too-pretty willow trees, but given the tree shortage, I'd just as soon keep them. What I am worried about is fruit trees, shade trees, pretty trees and the fact that I am almost completely sure he/she is building a den directly under my fishing dock.
So..... my wife made it clear from jump street that I was not to shoot the beaver. My daughter sneered at me with that "I'll carve your liver into scallops" look.
How do I get rid of my beaver?

Dave

[PRR]

Beavers are serious pests.... or rather, beavers and humans often conflict.

Near here, beavers repeatedly build dams uphill from a road, the dam fails, the gush takes the road out to sea. This last time, $200,000 to re-fill and re-pave.

I'm curious how you have beavers if you are tree-shy. They live on tender tree-tips. You are welcome to come over and take a hundred trees off my acres, but they are mostly scruff-pine and rotting birch.

Check with your game-laws. While you can usually get permission to take pest-beaver, you may need forms and such and follow rules. Aside from family preference it is hard to get a clean shot at beaver. Traps are much more likely to work (and silently!) but here there's specific rules on location and checking so they are unlikely to trap other wildlife; also there is a 25 cent tag required on all furbearing animals trapped------  nevermind, I'm reading Maine's trapping laws in another window and I'm totally confused; I would not set trap in beaver country without talking to a Warden.

[Willabe]

My thought is where did it come from?

Are you close to other areas that have beavers or did someone decide to relocate _their_ problem far from them selves because of their wife and kids?            

I mean how far will a beaver wander to start a new damn?    


                            
                              Brad      

[Frankenamp]

I'm thinking that it may do to invest in some chicken wire to wrap around the lower parts of the trunks up to where ever the varmits can't reach. is it a lone beaver, or does s/he have kin?

[Willabe]

I'm thinking that it may do to invest in some chicken wire to wrap around the lower parts of the trunks up to where ever the varmints can't reach.

I don't think a beaver that has a _purpose in mind_ will be stopped by simple chicken wire.

It's a rodent and ask anybody who has lived in a city who has had to deal with rats if it will work and I think they will just laugh.
 
Their teeth will eat/chew through almost _any thing_ with out stopping them. I grew up in Chgo. and I've seen/heard of rats chewing through concrete with wire mesh in it.


                            Brad            

[Dave]

I can't say I am shocked that there is a beaver here although I am a little surprised.
There are beavers in the area. I live on "Bois D' Ark" bottom in Fannin County Texas.
Bois D' Ark bottom has a fairly significant creek associated with it. There is a lake nearby and the Red River is just a couple of miles from here. There are other creeks sloughs and bayous nearby.
We have a diverse and healthy fauna around here and enough water to support a healthy ChupaCabra population.

My wife is originally from Panama where there is some of the most dense tropical rain forrest in the world. When she speaks to relatives back home, she describes this place (where we live now) as the American jungle. I always tell her that where I grew up (a little further east, and on the Sabine river), its really a lot more jungly than it is here, but she is convinced that Lewis and Clark must have been eaten by something right here.

The one thing that surprises me about my beaver is that we live on a hill, so, no matter what direction he came from, his journey was an uphill climb. With all the water around, I would have thought that he'd have chosen something a little lower.

Anyway, I just want to get rid of my beaver.

Dave

[John]

I have heard through the grapevine that at dusk, they float in the water and offer a nice target; but the report from the .223 will almost certainly bring the Wrath of Wife down upon your head.

No personal experience, ya unnerstand. 

[Dave]

I don't have a .223
I have a .338 WinMag. Its quite a tattletail.

Dave

[Dave]

I had a funny encounter today over the phone with a game warden. I couldn't get hold of the game warden for my county, so I called one from an adjacent county.

Game warden: "Game Warden"
Me: "Yes sir, I live in Fannin County and I have a beaver in my stock tank and he is really starting to tear st----"
Game warden: "Trap him, make him watch while you burn his house down, and then shoot him 3 or 4 times."
Me: (laughing): "I guess I don't need to fill out any forms or anything."
Game Warden: "Hell no, just kill the son of a bitch."
Me: "Thank you."
Game Warden: "You bet."

Dave

[sluckey]

Sounds like the voice of personal experience!   

[tubenit]

Game warden: "Game Warden"
Me: "Yes sir, I live in Fannin County and I have a beaver in my stock tank and he is really starting to tear st----"
Game warden: "Trap him, make him watch while you burn his house down, and then shoot him 3 or 4 times."
Me: (laughing): "I guess I don't need to fill out any forms or anything."
Game Warden: "Hell no, just kill the son of a bitch."
Me: "Thank you."
Game Warden: "You bet."

It could have been a  beaver.  However, Texas is loaded with Nutria and they will on occasion cut down small trees also but not as severely as beaver will.

I'm 8th generation Texan transplanted to NC.  That sure sounds like a Texas response to me.
 

With respect, Tubenit

[Dave]

It could be a nutria. Especially one that had a horrible accident with a steam roller and its tail.
Heck, for that matter, it could be a duck billed platypus that was born with really big front teeth instead of the bill.
Its probably a beaver though.

Dave

[tubenit]

Especially one that had a horrible accident with a steam roller and its tail.
Heck, for that matter, it could be a duck billed platypus that was born with really big front teeth instead of the bill

 

I am taking it that you have seen him 

[Fresh_Start]

I had a funny encounter today over the phone with a game warden. I couldn't get hold of the game warden for my county, so I called one from an adjacent county.

Game warden: "Game Warden"
Me: "Yes sir, I live in Fannin County and I have a beaver in my stock tank and he is really starting to tear st----"
Game warden: "Trap him, make him watch while you burn his house down, and then shoot him 3 or 4 times."
Me: (laughing): "I guess I don't need to fill out any forms or anything."
Game Warden: "Hell no, just kill the son of a bitch."
Me: "Thank you."
Game Warden: "You bet."

Dave

DO NOT follow that approach if you live in Maine.  My mother owns three ponds and beavers have been trying their best to raise the water level at the two larger ones for years.  They are industrious.  They multiply.  It is amazing how well they can weave saplings together to clog up your overflow drain.  Hell, they even build coffer dams to get the work done better!  At one pond, they completely blocked the overflow and the spillway is in danger of giving way.  The other pond is bigger but it's easier to clean out the overflow there.

However, in Maine it is verbotten to just shoot a beaver.  PETA (also known as the local game warden) will climb up your butt with a backhoe if you shoot one.  Getting a permit to trap is almost impossible.  I'd like to throw dynamite into their lodges, but that would bring down the wrath of PETA (see above). 

BTW want to know why we keep getting beaver infestations at the largest pond?  Because the rectal apertures from Animal Protection relocate beavers caught elsewhere to OUR PONDS.  Your beaver probably didn't climb up a hill - some government paid protector of the innocent carried them up the hill!

If only we knew someone who wanted to poach beavers... Of course we don't!

In your case, just wait until the wife and daughter are away then use Mr. Bucktooth for target practice with that .338 WinMag.  Kind of overkill for a beaver though.  Eh, just checked the ballistics for that cartridge and it's outta sight for this application.  Caliber starting with a "2" and bullet no more than 50 grains or so ought to be perfect for Bucky.

Oh, you might want to get the little ladies to read up on "Giardiasis" and "Cryptosporidium" (actually the same thing) since the little turds are building a home under your dock.  They might not think the beavers are so cute after they read about this protozoan parasite commonly carried about by BEAVERS.

Happy hunting!

Chip

[Dave]

 

I am taking it that you have seen him 

Yeah, I've seen him, but one thing I've learned since we've been living in Bois D' Ark bottom is to never take anything for granted. Just because it posseses all the characteristics of a beaver, here, it might still be a deformed platypus.

I have seen the craziest wildlife around here... not the least of which is a bird that appears to blow a thick puff of white smoke out of its butt. When I first saw it, I thought I was off my rocker. Then one day, I convinced two of my neighbors to sit and watch them with me so that they could see it for themselves.
Now there are three of us competing to see who can get the first snapshot of one of these birds blowing smoke out its butt. In the meantime, we are all dumbfounded at what we have discovered.

So, let's say that the nutria and the platypus are not completely off the table irrespective of what I claim to have seen.

Dave

[Geezer]

I like good laugh, & you guys are killin' me!

[Shrapnel]

However, in Maine it is verbotten to just shoot a beaver.  PETA (also known as the local game warden) will climb up your butt with a backhoe if you shoot one.  Getting a permit to trap is almost impossible.  I'd like to throw dynamite into their lodges, but that would bring down the wrath of PETA (see above). 

PETA?!?!?! I got better things to call them than local game wardens... how 'bout  mental neer-do-gooders who don't have a life or anything else better to take a stand on. (When PETA protests the Oscar Meyer Wiener Mobile and wants to stop everyone from eating any kind of meat product, or use their skins.... they've gone mental.)

[sluckey]

Hey, I'll take a beaver hat when you get'em. 

[Dave]

I'll see if its legal to mail you a dead beaver. You can make your own hat.

Dave

[PRR]

> how far will a beaver wander to start a new dam?
> his journey was an uphill climb.

Sure. All the good ponds have been taken by other beavers (or bulldozed for development). A young beaver just starting out in the world will go a long way. Often upwater, because he can smell if there's other beavers up there or not. When a promising spot is found, they dam it for a pond which is safer from coyotes and such, and eventually turns brushy for good eating. Somewhere in here boy and girl meet and greet and next year there's more mouths to feed, more gnawing.

We don't seem to have beaver in this neck of woods. I'm sure up into the 1920s they were Sunday Dinner. Also I'm top of a ridge so while there's water, there isn't the kind of stream that will groom-up into a beaver pond. I'm wondering what I would do if beaver settled here. I hope I don't have to find out.

> legal to mail you a dead beaver

Maine needs a tag before the fur crosses the state line. Exception for taxidermy, but "hat" is classic Fur Trade use. NOTE: I am not a lawyer. Neither is the Maine Legistature: what a mangled clot of rules and exceptions. (A recent revision of the Lobster laws means a son of a lobsterman can't take over his 79 year old father's boat because the waiting-list is 15+ years... the old man has to be hoisted into the boat to keep it legal while the son hauls traps.)

Texas is not just a different state but a different nation in many ways. Maine has long history in fur trade and then in sports-hunters. If you have seen the show, our Wardens are serious about protecting the wildlife AND keeping hunters honest. Texas may have a very different approach to wildlife management.

I think a small rifle may work best. Just be sure you can retrieve and dispose of the floating evidence before the family gets back from the store.

[Fresh_Start]

Sorry for the hijack, but ya gotta love lobstah law.  About 20 years ago or so, an enterprising summer visitor decided that lobster was too expensive in the store.  Having scuba gear, he and his son swam out to a lobster buoy and then down the line to the trap(s).  Apparently, they'd been doing this for a while when they surfaced a bit too close to an angry lobsterman who shot them.  Turns out there's an old law on the books which says "Thou shalt have the right to murder anyone stealing lobster from thy traps!"  He didn't kill either one of them BTW, just attempted to.

Cheers,

Chip

[Dave]

Thinning the herd a little bit by taking out a couple of bad apples (as long as it is within the limits of the law) ain't murder..... At least not in Texas. Its more like..... improving the gene pool.

Dave

[Dave]

Sup, this is part of "The Family". I read all that stuff you said & thats like totaly mean to kill somthing that didn't even know it was doing anything to you. ITS JUST CRUEL!!!!  by the way is there any beaver traps out there he could use instead of killing the poor thing. :( :(

Sarah

[PRR]

Sarah, Dave--

I think you need to clarify why the beaver can't live there.

Read the Wikipedia articles for an overview:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaver
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Beaver
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaver_dam
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_device

Also: http://www.beaversww.org/solving-problems/

According to them, the beaver and his dam is a wonderful thing. Cleans the water, mitigates high/low water level, encourages new plant growth, fish habitat, doesn't bother anyone.

OK, they block Chip's stream and back-up water on his land, and if a beaver dam washes-out the flood can upset people (and roads) downstream.

And they do drop and eat trees. Willow is a favorite and my experience is that if beavers don't get the willows, rot gets them quick. However many trees grow-back after beavers drop them, thicker and bushier.

> read up on "Giardiasis"

No. "Beaver Fever" is a great headline, but you are MUCH more likely to get sick from mice and rats in house or woodshed, or other people's sewage, than from beavers.

> is there any beaver traps out there

The classic beaver-trap is a leg-hold set below the surface. He gets caught and is held under water until he downs. This leaves the fur in excellent condition. This is how we went from 100 million beavers to 10 million beavers. A bullet may be kinder than drowning.

There is the "Hav-A-Hart" trap, a cage with drop-down door. You need strong bait to get an animal to go into a cage. Mice, raccoons, bears need special food: nuts, eggs, cookies, fruit, meat; and may walk into a trap to get it. Beavers eat shoots and leaves-- that stuff is all around, why go into a trap? (Also: an adult beaver is bigger than any Hav-A-Hart that I've ever seen.)

OK, say you live-trap a beaver. What do you do with the critter? Take him down the road a piece? He will bother your neighbors. He is very vulnerable without his pond and may get attacked by dogs, coyotes, wolves, bear, whatever you got there. He won't be welcomed in any other beaver's pond. And he's got the local streams mapped-out. He will probably return to his own safe place: your pond.

Studies show that 87% of beaver "relocations" fail within 2 years. The same or different beaver come back.

Without wolves and fur-hunters, beaver population is rising. With increased development, suitable habitat is decreasing. How can we find a balance? Bring back coyote and wolves? I almost like the idea (especially re: deer in New Jersey) but then-again I have Corgi-dogs so I don't want hungry wild-dogs in my area.

Is it your land or the beavers' land? You have a Title which protects from claims by other people, but the beavers ants wolves and other critters have held the land much-much longer than any people. I try to accept that "my" land belongs to the squirrels and coyotes and wild (big! mean!) turkeys, that I am only here for a few decades and they will be here much-much longer than me.

Tearing down the dam won't work. It sounds like you already have enough damming to make a happy beaver, and anyway beavers can repair dams in a day or two.

One trick seems to work. Lower the water in a way the beaver can't fix. See "Flow Device" above. You put a major leak in the dam in a way that the beaver can't feel or hear the flow, doesn't understand how to plug it. This works good for road-ditches and other situations where low water is fine. It may not be good for a boating/fishing pond.

[Dave]

Sorry guys, I didn't know my 12 year old was aware of my communications on this forum, and had no idea she would be brazen enough to log into my computer and use my account. She and I will discuss it.

Dave

[Fresh_Start]

Dear Sarah,

I completely understand your sentiments. However, you need to try to understand my perspective. My father built two ponds, one 5 acres and the other about 15 acres. The purpose of the ponds was to create recreational areas and improve the value of the surrounding land.  Before the dams were built, there were no beavers because they couldn't flood the respective streams effectively.

After WE built dams and increased wetlands area etcetera, the damned beavers showed up and decided that the water level wasn't high enough for their purposes.  So they proceed to clog up the overflow drains.  More land is flooded. Trees die. The beavers only like certain species of trees and leave the rest to rot.  Beginning to sound more like humans, eh?

Now comes the spring thaw plus heavy rains.  At the larger pond, a town road runs over the dam. If the beavers are successful at completely blocking the overflow, they will cause the road to be washed out.  The water level will drop, other species of animals will suffer, and we will spend thousands of dollars to repair the dam.  At the smaller pond, they succeeded in blocking the overflow completely, raising the water level above the emergency spillway this spring. Erosion is cutting a deep channel through the spillway and the water level is almost a foot below normal already. Now there's too much water moving too fast for the beavers to dam it. If we can't fix the damage to the spillway and clear the regular overflow device, we'll lose the entire dam and the whole pond.  Just the current repairs are going to cost a lot.

You see, beavers are busy and they do what instinct tells them to do.  They are very good at plugging up flowing water.  Unfortunately, they are not planning anything or looking at the big picture.  BTW those trapezoidal water flow devices shown in Wikipedia would stop our beavers only until they walked around the backside of the overflow points.  Then they'd happily clog them up again.

If carpenter ants were eating the wood frames in your house, would you object to your Dad calling the exterminator?  Of course not.  For us, beavers are just really big carpenter ants with fur and buck teeth.

Respectfully,

Chip

P.S. it is possible to trap and relocate beavers.  We know for a fact that the current beaver population at the larger pond was transferred by Animal Protection officers from other peoples' ponds.  So if we trapped them alive, whose pond should we populate with beavers?

Disclaimer:  I have never killed or injured a beaver.  What someone else might do illegally is none of my business.

[PRR]

> beavers ...decided that the water level wasn't high enough for their purposes.

While deep water is the goal, it seems beavers really act on the _sound_ (and feel) of fast-flowing water. Gurgle offends them.

A beaver-made dam leaks all over, but quietly.

People-made dams are usually solid, no leak except the spillway. That has to be reinforced, which is costly, so we make it small. The water flows fast, offends beavers, who stick it up, and up, and up. Maybe they get to a point with thousands of leaks so small they are not offended. Maybe that's higher than the road. Which in this area is usually right AT the edge of the stream or lake.

Those trick-pipes seem to work in many cases. The first ones took years of experimentation. Other types evolved for different topology. One type is a long perforated pipe (many small inoffensive leaks) plus a rebar guard (so beaver don't notice the holes so much). I do think the best approach is to try something, watch for a few weeks, and be prepared to try something else.

I think long-term a beaver colony is "good for trees". The descriptions of early (pre-trapper) explorers in America are very different from the land we see today, and not just from logging and farming and Levittowns. But this re-ecology means decades of muck and weeds until the land finds its new balance and trees mature. Also decades of moving human expectations (roads, fishing docks) to suit the new reality.

I've lost a porch and trees to Carpenter Ants. Nearly got sued when tree fell in neighbor's swimming pool. But I have to admit that furry-soft beavers are different from ants.

[Davidg]

I used to work for a guy that had a large farm here on the KY/TN border. He battled beavers for years and the only thing he could do with any effectiveness was to trap and relocate- and this was a man with a botomless budget. saw him spend over $100,000 to repair a leak in a pond because he didnt like the way it looked at a lesser depth. I wish u luck! And back to the poll I am representing the thirtysomethings at 37. Always played tube amps but just started tweaking by hand this past year, this site and its members have been an invaluable resource in my endeavors and I thank u all!

[Willabe]

We know for a fact that the current beaver population at the larger pond was transferred by Animal Protection officers from other peoples' ponds.

I would be furious, we do they get the right to choose what private land/pond to relocate them to!              

I think I'd build a trap and relocate them, to say,         some remote island in the pacific ocean or maybe the south pole.


                
                              Brad      

[Dave]

TCO.....KIA.....RIP.....SHHHH!!!!

Dave

[mresistor]

so this is where you all hang out and solve the problems of the day....    cool!
I wish I could say i had a beaver around... but since last year I've been beaverless...

so sad..

[sluckey]

Hey Dave, you did see the helicopter kitty, right? I'd love to see a flying beaver.

[Dave]

Yeah,

I hadn't thought of that. Its tail could make quite a rudder i think.

Dave

[Fresh_Start]

Hey Dave, you did see the helicopter kitty, right? I'd love to see a flying beaver.

It might work better as a blimp than a helicopter though...

Enjoy your weekends!

Chip

[John]

so this is where you all hang out and solve the problems of the day....    cool!
I wish I could say i had a beaver around... but since last year I've been beaverless...

so sad..

The silence must be deafening.