6L6WGB (NOS Philips) - vs - 6L6GC (SED =C=)

[fdesalvo]

Now that the amp is able to put these things into proper bias range, I have to say that in this particular AB763 circuit, the Philips set absolutely take the cake.  Both pairs were run at 70% dissipation @ 460pV through a pair of V30s.

These =C='s  are real Russian tubes and while they sound really good, there is a huge hole in the sound compared to the Philips.  While the bass and treble is extended in either direction, it's totally missing the sweet midrange with all the harmonics and woody goodness.  The bass has a more subsonic feel, however - totally hits you in the chest, but I'm sure this is something that would disappear in a band scenario.  It sounds a bit sterile, to be honest.

The NOS Jan Philips 6L6WGBs are very sweet and chocked full of harmonics and sweet midrange - something the AB763 can use.  The bass is very tight and present, while not as thunderous as the SEDs, and the treble range is just beautiful.  These will make a beautiful pair of tubes to gig!  

I WISH I was able to listen to single coils through this - I know it would be magical.  In all fairness, the SD Jazz is a bit sterile sounding..the truth is that this amp may be showing me the true nature of this guitar.  Can't wait for my tele's body to get back from Warmoth.  I have a Kinman Woodstock (neck) and BK Abraxas (bridge) waiting for it!

[Ed_Chambley]

Get you some Tung-Sol 5881's and some RCA Blackplates and some cleartop Sylvanias.  Then you will have the bases covered.  Everyones ear changes.  Age has a lot to do with it as well also they style of music we enjoy.  I grew up in the south in the 70's so when I want to rock its Skynyrd, The Atlanta Rhythm Section, The Outlaws or Molly Hatchet and Blackfoot.  Grab a Les Paul or Firebird, plug it into a Peavy Mace.

Really, I do like the philips but I have found them to not be very bulletproof.  If you got a good set, take care of them cause they ain't cheap.  I prefer the New =C= in my most used Super Reverb.  The simple reason is when I am using the SR I am playing a place where I can run the volume at 8.

[fdesalvo]

I can't run those in my amp.  The TS 5881s - even NOS - can't be subjected to voltages above 400.  My plates are at a toasty 460~

I wish I could play mine at a volume of 8/10 - are you kidding?  When I was 25, I was booking bands at a casino in new orleans.  We hade a huge summer series and a circus tent that would go up each year.  The backline company had a habit of leaving their gear out on stage overnight, including a BF Twin RI.  I brought my guitar one night and sat on stage with the twin on 10.  Every note was like firing an old german 88mm artillery piece.  That thing was a cannon and it sounded so amazing cranked up.  When you get a twin to crunch up (a little), you are in danger of sterilizing people.

As a sad contrast, I've never been able to go above 4 at any of my live shows - with the exception of one where I was able to go to 5 to compensate for a lousy outdoor PA system.  Sweet mercy, though - 8?!  I'm sure some of the characteristcs you love about the =C='s would become apparent at the higher volumes - and your choice of speakers certainly influeces yoru perception of the tube.  Where are you running your bias on those?

Get you some Tung-Sol 5881's and some RCA Blackplates and some cleartop Sylvanias.  Then you will have the bases covered.  Everyones ear changes.  Age has a lot to do with it as well also they style of music we enjoy.  I grew up in the south in the 70's so when I want to rock its Skynyrd, The Atlanta Rhythm Section, The Outlaws or Molly Hatchet and Blackfoot.  Grab a Les Paul or Firebird, plug it into a Peavy Mace.

Really, I do like the philips but I have found them to not be very bulletproof.  If you got a good set, take care of them cause they ain't cheap.  I prefer the New =C= in my most used Super Reverb.  The simple reason is when I am using the SR I am playing a place where I can run the volume at 8.

[Ed_Chambley]

5881 will handle 460 on the plates.  My bassman has them in it and been running the for years.  Plate voltage 455.  The original schematic for a bassman has 435 on the plates and calls for 5881's.

The bias on all my amps with 6L6 is never above 40ma at idle.  It seems like everyone wants that magic 70%.   I run power tubes colder.  You seem to like to experiment with tubes.  The Ab763 is a great circuit for this.  There is no law that states a PI has to have 12AX7.  Let's say you were to use a 12Ay7 in the PI.  30% loss of gain.  No big deal as your volume know can make up the difference.  You have real 7025's in.  Boost your input, but not with the pups.  I use low out pups.  Then you get the opportunity to make more use of you preamp stage where the tonestack lives.  Everyone seems to be hung up on a ts9 or 808.  I don't even own one.  The RC booster is really great in front of a Super.  Now you have created a tone and you are just going to use your power section to amplify it.  IMO power tube saturation cannot be the focus on our larger wattage amps.  I use an Analogman Comprosser, a Keeley Compressor and I also have a MXR.  I might as well put it in the chassis as the are on all the time.  It is according to who I am playing with and what their music is as to what I select.  If I need distortion I have a single pedal I made which is just a ripoff of a fuzzface with an eq in the same box.  Fuzz with no eq is just noise.  This goes INFRONT of the compressor and then the level on the compressor controls how much of the distorted signal enters the amp.  I never use modulation effects on the same amp.  I take a small amp and run 100% of the modulation to it.  It does not have to be anything special ampwise because modulation turns any amp into something else.  I use a crown SS amp built into a little cab just big enough to hold a 12.

IMO, unless you are playing in large venues if you desire that tube saturation when you pass 15 watts you are dead.  Then you lose the versatility of having headroom.  That's why I focus on the preamp section.  I can put my amp on 10 and use a 12au7 in the PI.  If you are too loud at a low volume you might as well bypass the tonestack.  Then you lose what the AB763 is.

[fdesalvo]

Ed,

These are my favorite kinds of posts.  I love learning how people find their own tone. Once these tubes arrive ill start swapping them around and will experiment with diff bias settings.  I used 70% in my review since that's the standard most will aim for.

My favorite transparent of pedal is the JHS Morning Glory - a blues breaker clone that gives me that SRV Little Wing edge of breakup tone. It's so good I leave it on.  When I need a thicker tone, I use a B2D Cream Tone- a very sweet pedal!  Both combined are amazing, as well.

I have a delay that I leave for a little ambience - its a Mad Professor Deep Blue and it's gorgeous an unobtrusive.  I use a DD20 for the less subtle effect.

I ordered a fralin twang master for the neck of my guitar, which should give me more bite in that position.  I've enjoyed the chase for my tone thus far :). Thanks for your response.

[triode]

I can't run those in my amp.  The TS 5881s - even NOS - can't be subjected to voltages above 400.  My plates are at a toasty 460~

This is an argument I used to get into with customers constantly... I used to have a stash of those JAN Phillips
6L6WGBs... I used them all the time. They are only rated for 400V on the plate. If they can take it in your amp,
the 5881 can.

http://www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/sheets/087/6/6L6WGB.pdf

[Ed_Chambley]

Just read the Bassman schematic.  Plate current at 435.  Wall voltage was less them.  I've got a nice Variac (sp?) that will switch from load to output.  Use it all the time to set wall current when I play Downtown.  In the summer in Atlanta sometimes you will see 127 volts.  Back her down to 115.  Another way to change tone.  Put on about 105 and a fender will break up easily.

[fdesalvo]

Just went nuts on ebay - found some really great deals:

NOS Westinghouse 7025, short gray plate D getter (received this one - sounds so good in V1)
NOS Mullard ECC83/7025
NOS (2) Amperex Bugle Boy 12AX7/7025
NOS Brimar 12AT7 (Their 6V6s are amazing in tweed circuits)
NOS Mullard 12AT7/CV4024
NOS Westinghouse 12AT7 black plate
NOS RFT /ECC8112AT7
NOS Tung-Sol 5881, matched pair

[Willabe]

Very nice FD! 

Good for you!


         Brad     

[fdesalvo]

Your collective fault!  

Seriously though this should "do it" for a while. I blew my tube budget for the next decade!

Btw the tone with the Westinghouse 7025 in v1 and a Jan Philips at7 in v2 is glorious with the winged Cs!  Crazy how a little swaparoo can make such a difference.  Sadly, in a band setting it'll probably be lost in the mix.

[John]

Sadly, in a band setting it'll probably be lost in the mix.

Probably. The tone I love solo is not what sounds best with the bass thumping, for sure.

[fdesalvo]

Amperex Bugle Boy 12ax7 (date code 1960s) are AMAZING!  The Westinghouse that was in there is still incredible, but these are just a little bit better - I didn't think it would get better than that.  I have some NOS Mullards and an RFT left to try, but honestly, I'm 100% content and can stop now haha.  I hear the Mulls/RFT will be on the darker side.  The sparkle I was looking for is here in spades with the W and Amperexes.

On a side note - I installed a Fralin Twangmaster into the neck slot and it is totally amazing for texas style blues - think little wing edge of breakup or some of John Mayer's tones.  It also does sparkling cleans to the T and with both OD pedals on, is super throaty with sparkle and clarity!  Totally makes you want to play with your fingers and really dig in with your right hand. 

I can't believe it, but I've just stumbled into my dream rig - all the components that I never knew would or should work together have coalesced into the sonic lasagna of my life.  Finally inspired by my tone.  I feel like I have no need for another guitar - and the Twangmaster satisfies the hum bucker and singlecoil tones I've been longing for.  The only compromise - if I'd call it that - is the second position with both hum buckers on has lost the hollow tone it once had, but I'm not missing it at all.  Not even close.  I now have a tone I can solo on in all three toggle positions!

[fdesalvo]

Score!  Sorry for the massive pic :/ but these nos tubes rock!