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Hoffman Amps Forum image Author Topic: Mesa 20/20 Power Amp Transformer  (Read 5424 times)

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Offline plexi50

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Mesa 20/20 Power Amp Transformer
« on: November 28, 2012, 10:36:13 am »
I have a mesa 20/20 power amp with a bad PT on the main side. I am planing to use a fender 330-0-330 PT. The customer would like the power supply to be external and mounted to his rack unit. Amphenol connectors. I dont like this idea but hammond and many others had external power supplies. A new Mesa PT is $300.00. Not in his budget

My main question is why is the Mesa 20/20 power transformer wound the way it is with seperate windings for rectification and bias voltages

Why not just use a standard power transformer? Am i missing something here?

stratele52

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Re: Mesa 20/20 Power Amp Transformer
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2012, 03:15:08 pm »
Rectification and bias are on the sameS windingS . Two secondary windings in parallele. Is this the way Mesa can built smaller transformer ?

Offline kagliostro

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Re: Mesa 20/20 Power Amp Transformer
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2012, 04:32:30 pm »
Also to me Mesa do it as to have a small transformer

K
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Offline plexi50

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Re: Mesa 20/20 Power Amp Transformer
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2012, 07:25:50 pm »
I am going to remove the bell end off the Fender 330-0-330 PT and mount it after i dremel cut out a square hole for the windings. Then put the bell end back on the exposed underside of the chassis. The top panel may be a close fit but i think there will be 1/2" clearance.

Offline plexi50

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Re: Mesa 20/20 Power Amp Transformer
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2012, 06:29:16 am »
The tranny sorta looks like a jelly donut* You can see the black burned section of the PT.
Too bad the MOV (varistor) didnt go south. It would have protected the PT in the event of a voltage surge
The wire gauge used for the winding probably didnt make for a very tough transformer to start with

Had a new peavey classic 30 last month with the same PT burned primary winding issue.
Those new peavey transformers are not to be expected to last very long at all
« Last Edit: November 29, 2012, 06:38:51 am by plexi50 »

Offline etarist

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Re: Mesa 20/20 Power Amp Transformer
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2012, 03:10:39 pm »
Here's a 30/30 with external power supply via small amphenol connector:

http://www.borderpatrol.net/powersupply.htm

So, now it's gonna be 2000 bucks!? ;-)

Offline plexi50

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Re: Mesa 20/20 Power Amp Transformer
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2012, 04:50:19 pm »
Those Amphenol connectore are $22-$24.95 each. Military grade stuff. I am having a hard time finding a site that does not have a $20.00 surcharge on top of the cost + shipping

Offline kagliostro

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Re: Mesa 20/20 Power Amp Transformer
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2012, 06:33:46 pm »
About connectors, if I remember well, HotBluePlates in one amp used one XLR connector for B+

hope he can confirm if I remember well

K
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Offline HotBluePlates

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Re: Mesa 20/20 Power Amp Transformer
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2012, 07:16:27 pm »
Yes, I built a Standel-type amp with separate preamp and power amp chasses.

I used 2 umbilicals between the chasses: one standard 3-pin XLR for signal hot, signal ground and shield; and a 6-pin XLR for B+, ground, 2 filament leads and the 2 PT primary wires.

So what happens is the PT, rectifier and bulk of the power supply is in the power amp chassis at the bottom inside of the cabinet. The preamp chassis has a few extra filter nodes and the actual power switch. So the wires running to/from the power switch had to be carried in the 6-conductor power umbilical.

I bought the XLR jacks and plugs form Mouser. You have to plan ahead and be absolutely sure you're selecting the correct plugs and sockets. I made several mistakes in my choices and had to reorder twice. You also have to figure out from the data sheets if you have adequate space for the jacks. You will spend a bunch of time hand-shaping the hole for the jacks, as it's not a simple circle.

By the way, Amphenol is a company that makes a lot of different connectors, including XLR types. But when most people say "Amphenol connector" they mean their circular connectors.

Now I'm only familiar with one style of those, and maybe there are some that make a nice finished package simply. However, when I was in the Navy, I made some circular connector cables for aircraft wiring harnesses. I can guarantee that this particular type of circular connector (which from what I've seen perusing Mouser is the most common) is not something you can easily make into a nice finished-looking product at home or in any typical shop.

Why? The type I'm thinking of (and there very well could be others) doesn't have a nice external shell that covers the solder connection to the pins like an XLR type. The Navy shop actually had us use individual wires for each conductor, then we moved over to the shield machine. It literally wove the braided shield around the cable we made up of the individual conductors. Then we moved over to the jacket machine which wove the cloth outer jacket on the cable. There was even a color code to the weave in the otherwise OD green jacket that indicated which Navy facility made the cable.

I'd guess each of those machines to be in the $50k+ price range, and even that might be surplus prices; they were serious industrial machines that wove the jackets on with 8 or more spools of metal braid or nylon. There are also other steps I'm not describing, with special tools to insert the individual contact pins into the circular shell after solder to the individual wire in the harness, and some crazy type of silicone or rubber material to hand-make strain reliefs where the cable meets the circular connector.

Fine process and cost-effective if you're keeping multi-million dollar planes in the air, not so much if you're fixing/building an amp. My choice to use self-made XLR cables in my amp was informed by the tube mic preamps I own which use a 4-pin XLR cable to the separate power supply, and the tube mic I have which uses a 7-pin XLR between the mic and power supply. I bought the 6-conductor cable from Apex Jr, since I didn't need so much cable to get a good quantity price-break through Mouser.

Offline jazbo8

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Re: Mesa 20/20 Power Amp Transformer
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2012, 08:13:06 pm »
Those Amphenol connectore are $22-$24.95 each. Military grade stuff. I am having a hard time finding a site that does not have a $20.00 surcharge on top of the cost + shipping

Not Amphenol quality, but made for the Chinese military:

http://www.amazon.com/Gino-Military-Y28M-8TK-Circular-Connector/dp/B00842KO0W

Rated to 300VAC (much higher than the XLR type), and free shipping...

Jaz


Offline plexi50

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Re: Mesa 20/20 Power Amp Transformer
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2012, 11:03:07 pm »
We ran into a problem. Got some RF high voltage cables off Ebay but they are 6 times the size of the pics and huge, They also used a barrel connector which was not described in the auction to mate the male and female ends of the cables together. So for now it is still in the research bin

Offline etarist

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Re: Mesa 20/20 Power Amp Transformer
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2012, 02:55:56 pm »
Thank you so much, "HotBluePlates" for the great report on your project.
What a wealth of information!
I will continue to get my parts together and keep updating the thread
as work procedes with the great "plexi50's" help.
I'm determined to build this external 120V PT and then a sibling 220V one in Europe.
Also doing the same for my Triaxis pre-amp. Then I will finally travel MUCH lighter ;-)
Once again, necessity as the mother of invention!

The connectors of choice btw will be "Amphenol-Tuchel" (2-12 pins/300V)

 


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