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Hoffman Amps Forum image Author Topic: Help trouble shooting 65 Deluxe Reverb  (Read 5824 times)

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Offline hatchhh

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Help trouble shooting 65 Deluxe Reverb
« on: February 16, 2013, 07:16:30 pm »
Hi:

I recently developed a problem with my 65 Deluxe Reverb that I am having trouble figuring out.  The amp will work fine until it is totally warmed up, then it will intermittently act-up.  I will get a loud pop followed by complete loss of volume, then it will pop and the volume comes back, the amp may work fine for a while.  One tell is the amp will give a loud static like pop when the cabinet is tapped, particularly the front toward the middle.  I dropped the chassis and poked around looking for a bad connection but didn't see any, when I tap on blue ajax caps I get that static pop.  This is what I have done, I recapped the B+'s and bias cap (I thought I might have done a bad solder job, so I went back and checked those connections they were fine).  I swapped out the tubes individually to see if a tube was bad, but that didn't appear to be the problem.   I checked the connections on the speaker, but they seem to be fine.  So I have reached the extent of my limited knowledge.  I'm hoping you folks will be able to give me some insight and steer me in the right direction.  Thanks in advance for taking the time to reply.

Based on comments I received (thank you).  I went in and did some more tinkering.  I cleaned the tube sockets and tube pins, took a reading on plate voltage and got a 415. Interesting though, when I tried to take a reading on bias, I couldn't get anything to register.  It also appears that the static popping may be associated with V 4-6.  When I put the metal tube sleeves on, the popping stopped. Like they were producing a better connection.  When I was messing with the sleeves while amp was on, I would get that static popping.   There doesn't appear to be any red plating going on I pulled the chassis and left the amp on for awhile.  One thing that I observed was that one of the power tubes gets a faint blue flash when I switch standby off.  Maybe this happens, and I've just never had the chassis dropped to see it.

Thanks again for the help.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2013, 11:22:10 am by hatchhh »

Offline HotBluePlates

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Re: Help trouble shooting 65 Deluxe Reverb
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2013, 07:41:31 pm »
... I recapped the B+'s and bias cap (I thought I might have done a bad solder job, so I went back and checked those connections they were fine).  ...

Before or after this intermittent problem appeared?

If before, 99% chance your soldering or reassembly resulted in an intermittent connection.

Offline eleventeen

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Re: Help trouble shooting 65 Deluxe Reverb
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2013, 08:21:25 pm »
Sometimes this can be a dirty or kinda loose contact within a tube socket. Those can tough to run down. I'd pull the tubes one by one and put them back in their sockets...in-out-in-out and often that will clean the contacts. You may also discover that one or more sockets is/are sort of loose.

Or, it could be a badly microphonic tube with a bad internal connection. Very rare, but it happens.

Next time the blank-out happens....check to see that the power tubes aren't red-plating; turn up the tremolo intensity and see if you can hear the pulsing...move (not hit, rock the amp backwards suddenly) to jiggle the reverb can and see if you hear the crash. 

It may also be necessary to reheat the solder connections on the parts board& add just a tiny bit of new solder to get new flux into the joint. I've seen some questionable factory-made solder connections in older Fenders. Sometimes a joint may look "OK" but within the blob of solder but only a poor connection exists....and it worked OK for 45 years but enough corrosion built up around the hookup wire so that the connection just isn't being made any more.

These intermittent things can be tough to nail down.

Offline HotBluePlates

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Re: Help trouble shooting 65 Deluxe Reverb
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2013, 07:43:35 am »
And another question:
Did you still retain the p.c. board of this amp (I'm assuming a reissue Deluxe Reverb)?

If so, the inter-board connections may be loose (though in my experience they have usually been pretty tight push-on terminals).

Offline hatchhh

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Re: Help trouble shooting 65 Deluxe Reverb
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2013, 11:12:49 am »
And another question:
Did you still retain the p.c. board of this amp (I'm assuming a reissue Deluxe Reverb)?

If so, the inter-board connections may be loose (though in my experience they have usually been pretty tight push-on terminals).

Not a reissue, OB.

Offline hatchhh

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Re: Help trouble shooting 65 Deluxe Reverb
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2013, 11:15:16 am »
... I recapped the B+'s and bias cap (I thought I might have done a bad solder job, so I went back and checked those connections they were fine).  ...

Before or after this intermittent problem appeared?

If before, 99% chance your soldering or reassembly resulted in an intermittent connection.

I recapped after the problem had started. 

Offline HotBluePlates

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Re: Help trouble shooting 65 Deluxe Reverb
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2013, 06:43:50 pm »

Offline hatchhh

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Offline phsyconoodler

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Re: Help trouble shooting 65 Deluxe Reverb
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2013, 08:18:12 pm »
A cold or cracked solder joint on one of the heater wires can do that too,but it won't usually pop.
 A pop is usually something like a ground or power connection joint lifting.If you can make it do it by tapping the cabinet,then it's definitely a cracked solder joint.
  'Checking' your soldering involved removing the old solder and re-doing the joint again.Or pulling on it with insulated pliers while the amp is on.Dangerous if you are careless,so be warned!
  Do not assume anything,pull prod,wiggle until you find it.Always triple check when work was recently done.Seems coincidental that it happens 'after' the cap job was done.Check again.
Honey badger don't give a ****

Offline HotBluePlates

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Re: Help trouble shooting 65 Deluxe Reverb
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2013, 08:32:52 pm »
Yes, very well could be a bad ground or a cracked lead on a component. Even a broken cloth-covered wire that has been flexed too much (they are solid-core).

I agree with Psycho that wiggling stuff with insulated pliers is the way to go. Do the same with the tubes in the sockets (with an oven mitt or the like). A loose tube will do what you describe.

Offline eleventeen

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Re: Help trouble shooting 65 Deluxe Reverb
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2013, 11:46:21 pm »
Another thing to try would be to remove the tube shields, power on, volume low but not zero, and with one finger on the pointy tips, gently wiggle  the 9-pin tubes one-by-one in a small circular motion. This will perhaps indicate if there is a contact or two on a single tube socket that just isn't making a good connection. Be gentle, you're trying to move only one tube at a time. It also might indicate a broken solder connection right at one of the tube-socket pins.

The effect you noticed (the blue glow) on the 6V6 is perfectly normal. In fact it's considered sign of a good vacuum. You say there is "no bias voltage". Something does not compute. Without bias, those 6V6 tube plates would glow good and red hot almost immediately and perhaps blow the fuse. In fact...you'd WANT the fuse to blow.

Another thing---check to see that the 470 ohm screen resistors mounted on the 6V6 sockets are still in one piece. These R's run hot..and they're also heated by the natural heat for the 6V6 tubes. I have seen these resistors hairline-cracked all the way through. After 45 years, it is very common that they are dried out and embrittled. Under these conditions, the two halves will sometimes make and sometimes NOT make a connection....and the vibration of the whole amp under the influence of the speaker can make/unmake the connection. Very often, such a crack is simply invisible. With power off, just exert a little sideways pressure on the bodies of these R's. The same thing can happen with the B+ dropping 1-watt resistors under the doghouse on the top of the amp. Or...did you replace those? And finally, the same thing can happen to the 100K plate resistors, the brown-black-yellow pairs arranged in that "V" formation. If those plate resistors are old, I myself like to replace them (all of them) with the metal film 3-watt ones Doug sells. It cuts down massively on hiss, dramatic improvement for $2 of parts. Anyway, on the 470 ohm screen R's---I have seen those look perfectly fine, then push on the side, and one half of the R just swings away from the other half.

I remember when those amps were silly common and could be had for $150 all day long, as many as you wanted. They were scorned because they didn't have enough power. Now they're in fierce demand and fetch silly-high prices. I had a beautiful one that I left with a friend when our business dissolved ~~30 years ago. Sigh. I have an AB763 silverfaced one now. There's no question, they are simply great amps!


Offline hatchhh

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Re: Help trouble shooting 65 Deluxe Reverb
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2013, 08:24:19 pm »
A cold or cracked solder joint on one of the heater wires can do that too,but it won't usually pop.
 A pop is usually something like a ground or power connection joint lifting.If you can make it do it by tapping the cabinet,then it's definitely a cracked solder joint.
  'Checking' your soldering involved removing the old solder and re-doing the joint again.Or pulling on it with insulated pliers while the amp is on.Dangerous if you are careless,so be warned!
  Do not assume anything,pull prod,wiggle until you find it.Always triple check when work was recently done.Seems coincidental that it happens 'after' the cap job was done.Check again.

Sorry for the delayed response, life takes precedent over tone sometimes.  The popping and volume loss was happening before the recap.  I had recapped the amp when I bought it, and on the advice of somebody who I thought knew more than they did, I recapped the B+'s and changed the bias cap.   As for wiggling wires, I shocked the crap out myself on a B+ a couple of years ago, so I am a little shy about pliers.  Can I use a plastic soldering tool, and achieve the same result by applying pressure to the joint?  I'll try that this weekend when I have some time.


Offline hatchhh

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Re: Help trouble shooting 65 Deluxe Reverb
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2013, 08:27:55 pm »
Yes, very well could be a bad ground or a cracked lead on a component. Even a broken cloth-covered wire that has been flexed too much (they are solid-core).

I agree with Psycho that wiggling stuff with insulated pliers is the way to go. Do the same with the tubes in the sockets (with an oven mitt or the like). A loose tube will do what you describe.

Thanks for the reply.  I did the tube wiggle thing.  I have three that are a little loose.  Only one caused some slight static when wiggled.  I was hoping for a big pop.  So I will try tightening the prongs in that particular tube socket and see if that helps.

Offline HotBluePlates

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Re: Help trouble shooting 65 Deluxe Reverb
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2013, 10:24:05 pm »
Can I use a plastic soldering tool, and achieve the same result by applying pressure to the joint? 

Yes, definitely.

 


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