Lets build a breadboard!

[SILVERGUN]

May be you only were referring to arrange the pin of a tube (like 12ax7) for 12.6v heater and this is safe

K, I'm not sure I understand.... take a look back at my wiring in reply #41, and tell me if it'll be OK like that (not prone to hum)
Thanks for looking  

UPDATE:
I just got my hands on a control xfmr for FREE, out of a scrap welding machine!!
It's got 115v primary and dual 230v sec. that I can wire in series for 460VAC @ 1 amp....perfect for a bench PS  

Thanks for that idea  

[kagliostro]

Your arrangement is 12.6v for each tube and each tube is paralleled to the other

that is perfect if you don't plan to use 6.3v for heaters

I would plan also a board like those in #41 devoted to 6.3v tubes

---

It's got 115v primary and dual 230v sec. that I can wire in series for 460VAC @ 1 amp

WOW that is an Homungus PT   460v AC 1A - you can think at ~600mA-650mA DC available current

May be not the best as to test SAG performance in a Champ, but you can breadboard also 200W-300W and more big amps  

if you find it on the cheap also a 12v transformer can be used instead of the devoted 12.6v transformer in tubes like 12ax7 tollerance for filament voltage is in the order of + or - 10% till 20%

---

I haven't something like your salvaged control xfmr but I'm lucky, a friend give me a 220v / 6.3v x 6 windings with 2mm winding wire (I assume there is enough current as to breadboard also very big amps there  )

Ciao

Franco

[moonbird]

Hi all -

Here is an example of that Heathkit bench power supply I have that I intend to use on my breadboard. My bad before -- It only has 0-400V @.1 A, 6.3V @ 4 A and 12.6V @ 2 A. No 5 V.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Heathkit-SP-17A-Variable-Dual-High-Voltage-Tube-Power-Supply-HV-0-400v-DC-/321102388700?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4ac3319ddc

However 5V @ 1.5 A is available from one of these:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Old-Collectible-Heathkit-IP2718-Tri-Power-Supply-/280828466846?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4162ae569e

[spacelabstudio]

I need a breadboard.  I'd love to see a parts list for anybody that's made one.

[John]

So far, mine is a piece of plywood with a bunch of barrier strips from Radio Shack. I'm going for the rustic look.

[Willabe]

 

[SILVERGUN]

So far, mine is a piece of plywood with a bunch of barrier strips from Radio Shack. I'm going for the rustic look.

Yeah,,,this is a project that will be different everytime someone else builds one.....it is what you need it to be..

I've found that the fancier I try to make it the more time it sucks out of my life....imagine that

I'll post pics this week of my almost completed piece of plywood ...........it's just some boards I wired up with tube sockets (as pictured previously),,,,a couple of transformers,,,,some barrier strips,,,,a little DIN rail,,,,some octal relay sockets....etc, etc,

I think DL said something like,,,,,build one and then you'll realize what you need it to be 

[SILVERGUN]

Here's a pic of my completed preamp board with the wiring labeled, to give you something to think about...this is one way to do it 
I thought that it was a good idea to have 2 separate connections for the plates of the preamp tubes so that I can bring the B+ in from the top, and then run the signal from the duplicate connection on the opposite side of the board (as pictured).....in my layout,,,that makes sense

I also built a reverb board, based off of sluckey's beautiful schematic of the AB763 reverb design......it'll get the job done for now, and has a mini switch for on/off,,,plus the phono jacks and xfmr built right onto the board (pictured last)

The phase inverter board is a simple 2 tube board that is just a smaller version of the preamp board, and will be able to use the second tube as an effects send/return, or post phase inverter driver (not pictured).....for now

[kagliostro]

Nice execution and interesting plan !

Your reverb board give me an idea also for a tremolo board

Thanks for sharing

K

[moonbird]

SG -

Going with 12volt for the heaters really simplifies the heater wiring. Bravo! I think I am convinced. I have a couple of Radio shack 12v transformers that will fill that bill nicely. Using the pre-drilled turret board is also a great idea. Makes it quick. But those barrier strips are pricey dude!!! You know somebody who carries them home at night? 

[SILVERGUN]

OK, here we are today at about 90% complete.....
I can't believe it's been this long since I started this thread,,,and I'm over budget (of course),,,but I'm pretty happy with what it is

Maybe not the most versatile breadboard,,,,but a great platform to build a couple of amps on and see where it leads me

My favorite part is that the main blank board in the bottom left of the pic can be substituted for an actual,,soldered up preamp board for testing  ......kind of an accidental discovery, that came to me as I was laying everything out for spacing,,,,,,,,priceless 

I put the second pic in so you could see the "layering effect" that I used to bring the components in the back up into reach and create a flow for the eventual wiring,,,,,by putting a second layer of plywood under the power tubes and "cap farm",,,,,and then a raised aluminum "grounding deck" that also provides spots for the PT and OT to sit.

Still have to permanently mount some stuff,,,,but I'm getting close, and it's about time!

[kagliostro]

Cool 

Franco

[Willabe]

Man SG, very nice!

It looks great and it looks like you've put a lot of good thought in to it too.

But if as you start to use it and get new ideas from hands on experience with it, don't feel bad if you see some things you'd like to change. Hind sight is always 20/20.

Really does look great and well thought out.


              Brad       

[Willabe]

What is the switch on the verb board for?


             Brad      

[SILVERGUN]

Thanks guys!! 

But if as you start to use it and get new ideas from hands on experience with it, don't feel bad if you see some things you'd like to change. Hind sight is always 20/20.

Yeah, that's kinda why it's taken so long.....it was a compromise between what I could imagine and what I actually need to get up and running.........and with limited experience in general,,I probably had limited vision,,,,,for now, It'll do 
The most difficult part was just settling and just starting to drill holes.....once I got rolling, it finished itself
The whole time I was thinking in the back of my mind that I wanted "you guys" to think it was good.....so I did spend too much time just staring at it 

The switch on the reverb is in place of the footswitch.....just on/off

[Willabe]

The switch on the reverb is in place of the footswitch.....just on/off

And there you have it, I can't even figure that out.


               Brad     

[SILVERGUN]

 

Don't be too hard on yourself......I had to stare at it for a day before I could drill the hole   

I still have to take it off the standoffs at least 3 more times to triple-double check the wiring, before I plug it in.... 

I think that's why my amps usually work the first time,,,,,,because I spend a month verifying what I have spent a month verifying......It's an illness

That's it....now I just jinxed myself

[DummyLoad]

what are you going to do about tube shields? grounding the shields? some circuits will likely be fairly noisy without them...

--DL

[SILVERGUN]

what are you going to do about tube shields? grounding the shields? some circuits will likely be fairly noisy without them...

--DL

Originally I thouight I was gonna use socket savers on the preamp tubes, so I didn't install the shield-type sockets (now I realize how high off of the board the tubes would be if I used them)....
I'm gonna "wing it" for now and see how much noise there actually is....
Part of the modular design is that I'll be able to change boards out,,,and if the noise is a big issue,,,I'll have to wire up a new board 
I'm OK with adjustments as I go.....like you kinda said.....I'm not gonna know what it needs to be until I build it and find out 

Chaulk it all up to a general lack of experience......and also to the fact that I just went and built it and didn't ask for any advice along the way 
Thanks for looking out, and coming back to pose an excellent question......I noticed it after I had already wired up the first 2 boards


So make a note kids: If you're gonna build one,,,make accomodations for socket shields 

[SILVERGUN]

Thinking a little more about it...
Do you think there would be any value in having some smaller pieces of pipe?(or equiv.) cut to size to slip over the tubes as temp shields to see what kind of difference it makes with noise? ...(not grounded?)
Or just a loose tube shield?

Is it a 50/50 purpose for the shield to also hold the tube in the socket (in amps)?....or is it more llike 90% for shielding 10% hold down?

[kagliostro]

Ciao SILVERGUN

I really don't understand where is the problem

The shielded sockets I've are near identical to normal sockets

(and your's looks to be the same)

see this one





the metal base of the shielded sockets can substitute the metal part of a standard socket (talking about the base, not the shield itself)

so if I unscrew the normal socket and substitute the upper metal part with those of a shielded socket

all will fit on without problem

an additional wire can be add to the screws as to have a ground connection for the shields

K

[SILVERGUN]

I really don't understand where is the problem

I was under-thinking that one.....again,,,lack of experience

1) I didn't realize that the tube shields get grounded 

2) I have one of the shielded sockets here and the shield base is crimped onto the socket...I thought they were all like that 

As I was building my breadboard I thought to myself at one point "Do you really know what you're doing enough to deserve this?"

My answer was "No,,,but it's going to be a great tool to learn with" 

[Willabe]

Their grounded automatically when bolted to the chassis.


                 Brad     

[DummyLoad]

2) I have one of the shielded sockets here and the shield base is crimped onto the socket...I thought they were all like that

is it the SAME size as the sockets you used? what size hole is required by the sockets currently in place?

look carefully, they come apart. use a small jewelers strait-slot screwdriver to open up the locking tabs. looking at the pics you posted, it does seem like you used the 7/8"(22mm) sockets.

buy some of doug's two-piece ceramic model and use just the shield mounting ring, from the pics you posted, it looks like they'll drop right onto your sockets. attach a ground lug underneath each socket mount-point then wire daisy-chain from socket to socket. the last socket gets a wire to a terminal and that's the system ground for that preamp section.

on a footnote; if you replace just the socket mounting ring with the shield base mounting ring, all you're fancy-schmancy filament wiring will be saved... 

--pete

[SILVERGUN]

OK.....tradgedy averted....
I can keep my facncy-schmancy wiring in tact AND use shields with my current setup....

You guys are the best 

One minute I feel like a genius and the next right back to idiot.....this new "hobby" is tough on my self-esteem

[DummyLoad]

i've had some time to hack out some new sockets for my breadboard. two types, and a third in the works...

first solution is a double deck. the sockets mount as they would in a chassis and wring is made under the board to the single-row PCB type barrier strips. this makes the deck height of the barrier strips fairly high, so i designed a pair of accompanying component boards; one has a 1.75" center - center and the second has a 2.5" center - center.
complex to build but solid and heavy. wiring from socket to board is less trivial and less flexible since it is soldered at both ends. this design also assumes use of DIN rail to mount both the socket boards and the component boards.

second solution is a bit cleaner, has a lower deck height, more flexible and easier to wire the sockets to the barrier strips, however, the socket mounting is a but unorthodox and potentially more fragile. i used .190" thick material to improve the axial strength of the standoff attach points to the board. lastly this design requires use of double-row barrier strips and probably the path i will take since it allows me to use the existing breadboards component rows.

DIN rail mounts i used are available from Winford Engineering - i used the DINM15-rc part; URL link below.

http://www.winfordeng.com/products/dinm12-15.php

URL link to photos below.

http://s2.photobucket.com/user/pmitchel/library/Breadboard%20Stuff?sort=3&page=1

PM me if you'd like a copy of the mechanical drawings & fab. templates in VSD, PDF, or DXF format.

--pete 

[SILVERGUN]

i've had some time to hack out some new sockets for my breadboard. two types, and a third in the works...

Nice stuff there DL,,,thanks for sharing 

I finally got aroung to starting a project on mine,,and it is an absolute joy to use....
I really enjoyed not having to sit around and draw a layout,,,,but just jump in start screwing down parts as I was following along on the schematic

I have one problem area,,,which is of course, the PI board that I took for granted....it's too crammed for space, especially because it will be an area of focus on this new project

I plan on rewiring a new board and leaving more space between sockets, so we can have the PI tube and PPICF components all right there

Other than that, this is the coolest tool I have ever owned,,hands down.......thanks again for the inspiration 

[eleventeen]

Boy that looks like fun! Though I know you've gone thru some trials and tribulations constructing it, it almost looks like more fun than building an actual amplifier! I like the Fender logo. I would, I suppose, be concerned about finalizing a design without knowing for sure that "bad layout" noise might or might not go away with proper construction techniques on a real chassis, but I imagine if that was a real concern, you could build the preamp part and lash it into the breadboarded remainder of the circuit.

[SILVERGUN]

it almost looks like more fun than building an actual amplifier!

Yeah,,, I was questioning the worth as I was building it,,,,but now that it's done I realize that I have built the potential for 100 amps and not just one amp......especially because I like to build "special" amps, and I'm a chronic tweaker

I like the Fender logo. I would, I suppose, be concerned about finalizing a design without knowing for sure that "bad layout" noise might or might not go away with proper construction techniques on a real chassis, but I imagine if that was a real concern, you could build the preamp part and lash it into the breadboarded remainder of the circuit.

The Fender logo is for this build....it's gonna be a AB763 with an attempt at a PPI CF driver circuit.....so once we get that in order, I hope to just use Doug's layout and board for the final product...
And if you look at the black board in the bottom left corner,,,,I'll be able to replace that with an actual wired up preamp board to test

[Willabe]

Ok my turn.   

I need to build 1 of these now. I have gathered some parts since this thread started but I have a question.

Where did you get your dual row terminal strips?

I found some at home depot but their rated at 300vac/30A. Same thing for what I found at Mouser.

I'm thinking that I can treat these as we treat a Carling switch? Where they're only rated at 240vac/6A we use them at a much higher vac (<500vdc) with a much lower current (<0.5A).


                        Brad     

Edit; Added < (less than sign),    Brad

[SILVERGUN]

Ok my turn.   

I need to build 1 of these now.

YES!!....yes you do. 

The ones I saw at home depot were too large because they wont tighten down on one single resistor lead....the holes are too big.

I got some of mine at Radio Shack but most of them from Newark.
The brand is Molex and I think the smallest ones they make turned out to be my favorite.
You'll want to get down to 22AWG

The spacing of the holes also matched the pre-punched boards, so it was a winner.

I think it was these:
http://www.newark.com/molex/39100-0912/terminal-block-eurostyle-12pos/dp/46M3769

[Willabe]

I have a few different circuits I want to play with before I commit to an eyelet/turret board, drilling a chassis and having face plates made.

The ones I saw at home depot were too large because they wont tighten down on one single resistor lead....the holes are too big.

I got some of mine at Radio Shack but most of them from Newark.
The brand is Molex and I think the smallest ones they make turned out to be my favorite.
You'll want to get down to 22AWG

The 1's I got at HD are Tyco Electronics and say on the package; 10 to 22 AWG. I just tried a piece of solid 22AWG and it grabs real strong. (You scared me for a second! laugh:)

Are you sure you really like those Euro style 1's? I'm not too sure I'll get used to them by looking at them. Maybe I'm wrong?

The link you posted says 300vac/20A.


                     Brad       

[SILVERGUN]

The 1's I got at HD are Tyco Electronics and say on the package; 10 to 22 AWG. I just tried a piece of solid 22AWG and it grabs real strong. (You scared me for a second! laugh:)

Oh yeah, I was referring to the euro style ones....those tyco ones are good and grab great, they are just a little bit more annoying than the euro style, because you have to wrap the leads around the screw or they will push out when you tighten the screw.

Are you sure you really like those Euro style 1's? I'm not too sure I'll get used to them by looking at them. Maybe I'm wrong?

Yes, and that's why....it's just way more convenient to push the lead in the hole and tighten the screw (on the euros) without worrying about the screw head twisting the lead as you tighten it (on the tycos).

The link you posted says 300vac/20A.   

Yeah....I wouldn't worry too much about that V rating in this application.....most of those connections will never see even 1/2 of an amp.
Current is more of a concern than actual voltage.

On the "son of a breadboard" I switched over to mostly euros and it is much more convenient to use that board....yes, they will wear out sooner, but I'll just plan on replacing them at some point.
WAAAYYYYY easier to work with the euros.
http://el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=16551.msg163203#msg163203

[Willabe]

because you have to wrap the leads around the screw or they will push out when you tighten the screw.

Well it's only a temporary connection we need. Just need to be tight enough to stay in place and not get loose and arc. It's not a permanent connection like in a fuse panel or a welding machine.

DL did bring up a 'washer' that I think stopped that from happening?   

Yes, and that's why....it's just way more convenient to push the lead in the hole and tighten the screw (on the euros) without worrying about the screw head twisting the lead as you tighten it (on the tycos).

On the "son of a breadboard" I switched over to mostly euros and it is much more convenient to use that board....yes, they will wear out sooner, but I'll just plan on replacing them at some point. WAAAYYYYY easier to work with the euros.

Ok, I'll try buying a few, it makes sense what your saying.

Yeah....I wouldn't worry too much about that V rating in this application.....most of those connections will never see even 1/2 of an amp.Current is more of a concern than actual voltage.

Like what I said about the Carling switches Fender used for decades. They traded higher voltage for lower current through the switch.


                    Brad        

[Willabe]

I'm thinking of taking a little bit different approach with this bread board.

For instance, I want to try a few different reverb circuits. Then if I like 1 or more of them, I want to build a separate board that I can just swap in a different verb circuit in a build. Like your verb board.

I also want to do the same thing with different vibrato circuits and to see if they can be chained in series with each other.

And I have some different iron sets for a SE Champ build that I want to test.

I'm thinking, maybe some of these circuits can be modular so everything (all the circuit parts) don't have to be bread boarded every time?     

                           Brad   

[supro66]

I started with this one
 

[Willabe]

 

[kagliostro]

which one was stolen from the other ?   





 

K

[Willabe]

Forget the board, I want the bread!!!!!


           Brad   

[Willabe]

Well I sat down this morning and measured up my parts to make a list of nuts, bolts, washers and standoffs to put this together, then went shopping.

I was able to get everything except the 1" nylon #8 standoffs, will order them online.

Next I'll start placing parts on the board to get a feel for how big it will be. I have a nice piece of 48"x24"x1/2" AA pine plywood. Not sure yet if I'll paint it or just put a coat of boiled linseed oil on it after it's all drilled. Just to keep it from drying out and warping/cracking. I'm leaning towards linseed oil. I really like it for sealing wood, it's very easy to apply and I have a ~gallon of it here. 


                      Brad   

[Willabe]

After thinking about this a little more, I just ordered the Molex Euro style terminal strips from Newark.

I found that they stock the same 12 terminal strip but rated at 600v@20 for $2.93, when you buy 10. $0.12 (each) more for double the voltage rating. Nice.     (Molex, part #39100-0812)

Yesterday I cut my plywood to 24"x24" and gave it a good coat of Linseed oil. I left a fan blowing across it overnight to help it dry.

I also cut and drilled my 9 pin (x6) fiberglass board, came out nice. As soon as I use it to transfer the standoff bolt holes to the plywood I'll start to wire up the socket pins.

I found a Hammond toroid dual primary/secondary; 15VA/120/240v, 50/60Hz, 6.3v @ 2.38A (parallel/total) or 12.6v @ 1.19A (series), that I bought some years ago from AES on close out.

So I'll wire it up as 12.6 and it will power 7, 12 _ _ 7 tubes nicely; 0.150A x 7 = 1.05.      I'll power any big tubes and rectifier tube from the main PT.

SG, how are your 9 pin tubes spaced? I went with 2 1/4" on center.


                            Brad              

[Ed_Chambley]

what are you going to do about tube shields? grounding the shields? some circuits will likely be fairly noisy without them...

--DL

I am questioning the need for this.  I am aware the shields are grounded by virtue of the chassis if metal.  I have a HIFI stereo build inside an antique silverware box.  All of the sockets are countersunk to be level and installed with metal rings.  None are grounded, not even the 2A3 tubes since the top of the box is burled walnut.  I just have 2 star groundings.  No shields or cover of any kind.

Now I plan on doing it, but how can this cause noise?  Does the ground shielding keep stray currents from being picked up by a tube?

Also, I was reading an old Popular Science from 1958 where and article mentioned wrapping solder around a tube to stop microphonics.  It works!

[Ed_Chambley]

SG, nice work there.
I was wondering if you had a solution for using pentode preamp?  I know it is moduar and you can add another preamp board as you want, I was just wondering if you have already made accommodations for testing them in a preamp?

[SILVERGUN]

SG, how are your 9 pin tubes spaced? I went with 2 1/4" on center.       

Mine are on about 2 1/8" centers

[SILVERGUN]

SG, nice work there.
I was wondering if you had a solution for using pentode preamp?  I know it is moduar and you can add another preamp board as you want, I was just wondering if you have already made accommodations for testing them in a preamp?

On the big board (this thread) I made a separate little one socket board...it's adorable

On the "son of a breadboard" I wired the 2 sockets on the far right of the long board for pentode use.

[Willabe]

Mine are on about 2 1/8" centers

Ok, I was asking because of the spacing on the Euro strips.


                    Brad   

[Willabe]

I got my Euro strips today.   

I'm thinking I'll space them in 3 rows on 2 1/4" center's. What did you space them at SG?


                 Brad     

[SILVERGUN]

I got my Euro strips today.   

I'm thinking I'll space them in 3 rows on 2 1/4" center's. What did you space them at SG?


                 Brad   

\
On the "son of a BB" I just lined em up along the edges and spced em like they were gonna be just one long strip...and I like that A LOT!

[Willabe]

No, I mean the space in between the strip rows, center to center.


             Brad   

[SILVERGUN]

No, I mean the space in between the strip rows, center to center.


             Brad   

Oh...duh

Well,, I didn't measure, but that black Garolite is 3 1/8" wide and I just lined em up with the edge and then tried to space the boards a similar distance.
I'm not much of a pre-planner.....I just did it.