Strat Setup---working again on the floating trem

[Platefire]

   Had my 1998 CIJ 54 RI strat for about 12 years now. I removed the original classic single coils and installed Texas Specials. The trem has always been decked with three springs tightened up pretty tight. It stays in tune really well even when using the trem pretty regular. Only problem was the trem action was really stiff.
  I recently decided to back off on the trem springs adjustments to obtain an easier feel to the trem bar. I backed off on the the springs quite a bit even going to a 1/8 rise in the back of the trem to make it floating. It apprears to be staying in tune really good floating also. So far I've liked the sound of the floating trem and the trem arm is a lot easier now---only problem is the actions is feeling really weird to me. The action seems about the same height, the strings seem looser regarding bending but fingering that I noramlly do seems to get boggled up. I not sure if I just need to get more acclimated to the change of if something is really wrong.
   I have been doing a lot of internet research on strat setup. The intonation is right on so I don't think I need any correction there--so I'm thinking maybe the neck relief may need to be checked/adjusted. Haven't got the correct measuring tools but from what I understand with a capo on the first fret and fingering the E 6th string at the 17 fret the clearance should be about 4/64 or 1/16 on the 7th fret. Could that cause the strangness in fingering?
  I'm about at the point of setting it back like it was if it don't start feeling better to me. I know there is all kinds of opinions on this regarding floating or non floating but I've always read that there is something really special about a properly set floating strat but not sure if I've fully experianced it. If that's the "Golden Strat Setting", I'd surely like to find it. Platefire
  

[G._Hoffman]

The correct measuring tools for neck relief are the strings on the guitar and your eyeball.  One hopes you have those.


Fret the low e string at the first fret, and again at about the 14-16th fret, and then check the gap at about the 7th fret (about half the distance).  It should be about a playing card's thickness.  That will get you plenty close enough.  If you like higher action, you can have it a bit straighter, but you never want any more than that.


Gabriel

[Ritchie200]

Plate,

Your bends will also be pulling on the trem and may not be giving you the same feel as before.  This may be the cause of your loose string feel and boggled up Malmsteen runs!  What gage strings are you using?  I've always found that the higher the better - meaning .011+.  My humble opinion is the perfect gage is .012 for a floating trem on a Strat.  I can do all sorts of wang bar acrobatics and it never goes out.  If I haven't played for a while the 11's do fine until my fingers are up for it.  Plus I think the bigger strings sound better.  I think I mentioned this before - when I used to build stamping dies spring life was an art.  Talking to the manufacturers there is an area of compression that yields consistent performance and life.  I am convinced it is the same with extension springs and I don't think the light gage strings will put the springs in the correct area of extension - even if you go down to two springs.  It has to have enough balls to overcome saddle and nut friction.  Graphite can only do so much!

Just MHO!
Jim

[jjasilli]

I backed off on the the springs quite a bit even going to a 1/8 rise in the back of the trem to make it floating.

??? do you mean 1/8".  If so, that is wrong. Dan Erlewine is THE source for setting up a floating Strat trem.  This has been posted before.  Post again if you need more info.

[Willabe]

I knew a guy who met Leo at a NAMM show years ago and he told me he saw Leo slide the edge of a nickel under the trem bottom plate and then tighten the springs until the nickel feel out.

Now that's hi tech.


               Brad       

[Platefire]

Thanks for your input but I've went back to decked position. I've tried heaver strings in years past and just couldn't adapt to it so I still use my .009-.042. My super slinkeys are very stable with trem use set up decked like that. The action and feel is great, the wiggle stick requires a little more muscle but once you get acclimated to it is no problem.

I went in to Guitar Center today a played a couple of strats with the floating trem setup and didn't like the feel of the action on those either. Playing those guitars made me appreciate the action on mine even more. So I know ya'll will probably give me a chewing out for not following through with floating setup so I know I got it coming.  Plate

[Willabe]

Look if your comfortable with it set like you have, that's what's important.

I was just saying that's an easy way to set it up.

I use mine very little, only to put a little shimmer/wobble on chords or sometimes on a 2 note/double stop. I never use it on single notes, that I do with my fingers. Once in a while I'll drop the bottom out of a chord and let it come right back up in pitch then wobble it a little.

So I set mine up a little up off the top so I can wobble the notes a little above and below their pitch. If I had it set down on the top I could only wobble the notes below their pitch. When you vibe a note with your fingers you can only raise it's pitch. Slide guitar you could do any of the 3 but I think most go above and below the pitch.  

BTW, I use 5 springs. I've seen pictures of Jimi and Stevie's strats from the back and the pictures I saw had 5 springs. Although I've read a lot of times where guys love 3 springs.        

Some guys set them up pretty high off the body so they can pull up on the bar and raise the note. I see no sense in that, why not use your fingers?

Jeff Beck has his set way high and does a lot of unbelievable things, including bending notes up with it.


               Brad          

[smackoj]

uh, sorry but I heard that Leo "the Boss" Fender used a 10 peso piece not a nickel. :)     

[Willabe]

Yes, but that was only after he would come back from a vacation in Tijuana Mexico.


                 Brad     

[Platefire]

I just use my wiggle stick for drops, never any raise in pitch. This strat came with 3 springs only. Of course I could always buy and add more. What started all this was I have a Peavey Predator and I loosened the springs to a floating position and it made the trem a lot easier to use. It didn't negatively effect the action at all or the tuning. So it worked so good on the predator, so I thought I would try the same thing on my strat---wrong! With the 3 springs and light gauge strings, I think the springs need to be tight to work right. Plate 

[Platefire]

Well!!    went back and set it for floating. I find it hard to give up on that so I went back and set the bridge/trem block just like Fender site said--screwed out all the front adustment screws 1/16" above the bridge plate in the decked position and then screwed the two end screws down to the plate--just barely touching leaving the middle screws set at 1/16". Adjusted the trem springs out to obtain a 1/8" gap in the rear of trem between body and back side of trem all the way accross. The trem works a lot better at that setting and the action feels good. Staying in tune pretty good too, need to put some more graphite on the nut slots and string trees. I'm going to leave the back plate off a while in case I need to do some more tweaking. I think floating is the way Leo intended it to work so here we go again.  plate