Got a 1967 Blackface Super Reverb in for Repair(question?)

[Platefire]

He said the tremolo wasn't working and wanted to be sure the power cord ground connection was hooked up properly. Found the trem problem was just a bad tube. Had one of those brand new looking high end JJ ECC803S in there but just wouldn't work. The trem will also not work
unless the footpedal is plugged in.

On the ground connection, I just did a continuity check and the ground prong on the cord had continuity with the chassis. Also who ever added the 3 conductor cord left the ground switch in place/active. Worked good at my house because I live in a house with the old two conductor wiring and fipping the ground switch got rid of the hum to dead quiet.

Didn't pull the chassis but looks like someone replaced the speakers with 10" Jenson P10R Special design Alinco's(made in Italy) and it also looks like the OT has been replaced. Nice clean amp for its age, just heavy. I think the owner is getting it ready for e-bay. Plate

[jim]

I bet it sounds pretty good.  The replacement OT definitely lowers its value significantly as does the speakers.  But I bet those bright alnico 10's round out the bassy character of the SR.  The ground switch could be rewired as a dummy for maximum safety..  But it is handy to have if an outlet is reverse polarized.  Check the driver to see if a 12AT7 is there--it will hold up better than a 12AX7.
Check the caps to see if there is any leakage or swelling.  The amp is definitely a hernia maker though--it is not for old rockers.  Jim

[Platefire]

The amp is OK, too bright, to heavy, to loud IMHO. Best big amp that I had in for repair that really sounded great to me was a Vibro King. Loved the reverb controls and the tone & response was great! Plate

[Platefire]

He didn't ask me to look into this but in playing the amp, I'm noticing some things. Not long after I fire the amp up about a minute after its got sound a whisteling sound comes in faint starting off and builds up louder until it reaches a peak, cuts off and disappears not to return again until next fire up. The total duration of the whistle is about 10 seconds. It does this almost everytime you fire up the amp. Also noticed a low level crackeling after the whisteling subsided. I will try some different preamp tubes and see if that helps. In the meantime, does anybody have any idea about the whisteling? Plate

[Fresh_Start]

Whistling - just guessing that it could be a leaky filter cap somewhere. I had an old Princeton Reverb on my bench that had some peculiar behavior and noise at turn-on. Replacing an obviously bad filter cap in the bias circuit did wonders for that.

Also, that amp shouldn't be bright. If anything the only original SR I've played with was pretty dark and so was the clone I built. I'd check the coupling caps, especially in the tone stack. Guess it could be those speakers though.

[plexi50]

That whistle could also be a power tube oscillation. Does the amp squeel if you put your hand around or near a power tube?
Is it whistling Dixie?

[Platefire]

The whistle is now dead    now whistling "Nobody Knows the trouble I go Through".

I got to swapping preamp tubes around with known good tubes. The whistle disappeared when I put a new EH ax7 in V1. The static went away when I put a new EH ax7 V4 reverb recovery and as said previouly, the trem started working when I put a used chinese ax7 in V5 trem location.

So the amp is sounding perfectly quiet now. I was playing a cheap strat copy through it previouly with ceramic pickups, so that may have been a lot of my bright problem. Plugged my Les Paul in and it's sounding pretty awesome. May try my real strat in it a little latter. Plate

[Willabe]

Blame the amp

Yeah.     

[Platefire]

Ok, we'll go with the amp. Shame on it for 30 minuets or maybe even 45. 

I don't know if it's a senior thing, or my hearing is getting too bad or my taste is changed or all of the above but I can't stand too bright of an amp anymore and in my younger days I thought bright sound was the cats meow.

I had mentioned earlier in this post the customer wanted me to check the ground connection on the power cord to see if it was connected correctly. I didn't pull the chassis and just did continuity check from ground prong on plug to chassis and it was good. Who ever installed the three conductor cord left the ground switch functional but-----in talking to the customer last night said he was shocked while playing through this amp. I have had no problem and played it many time over last few days---wonder if the cap on the ground switch could have gone bad? Since he said he got shocked, maybe I should pull the chassis and have a closer look! Plate

[Willabe]

Since he said he got shocked, maybe I should pull the chassis and have a closer look!

Yep. Better safe than sorry.


            Brad     

[sluckey]

I didn't pull the chassis and just did continuity check from ground prong on plug to chassis and it was good.

Did you actually measure zero ohms or did you just use the "beep" function?

in talking to the customer last night said he was shocked while playing through this amp. I have had no problem and played it many time over last few days---wonder if the cap on the ground switch could have gone bad? Since he said he got shocked, maybe I should pull the chassis and have a closer look!

If the amp does indeed measure zero ohms from ground pin in the plug to chassis, the amp is fine. Ensuring one amp on the stage is properly grounded will not prevent shocks. Every amp on stage must be properly grounded to ensure no shock hazard. IOW, say his amp is properly grounded and when he touches his guitar strings his body is also grounded. Now he kisses the mic that's connected to an amp that's not properly grounded. There's a 50/50 chance his lips will get stung.

[Platefire]

Well actually I used the "beep" function then, but since you ask I went back and did an Ohm reading and it is "0" Ohms.

I texted him again today asking more in detail about the shock and he said it was more like a "tingle" instead of a full "shock" and that has occured only a few times over a period of years. I told him his ground was properly connected to chassis and ask him if he wanted me to pull it to look closer and he said no. Plate

[HotBluePlates]

Ensuring one amp on the stage is properly grounded will not prevent shocks. Every amp on stage must be properly grounded to ensure no shock hazard.

He'll likely never be able to 100% prevent shocks without checking every outlet where he plays.

Not only does every amp have to be properly grounded, but PA systems, outlets, good interconnecting cables and power cords, etc.

The only time I got shocked was playing an amp with a 100% properly installed 3-prong cord. Amp was fine, but plugged into an outlet on the stage. Microphone ran through a snake to front-of-house, and into a PA plugged into an outlet on that side of the venue. Left hand on guitar strings, mouth near mic shell and ZAP!!!! I could feel the spark hit my lip and run down through my left arm and out the strings.

No telling if the outlet on stage was mis-wired, or the outlet at FOH or the PA. But anything bad in the chain makes you subject to shock.

[Platefire]

Well I've been seriouly bit through a mic in years past several times to the point my business with that mic was finished for the night. I actually saw the spark fly from the mic to my lip. If you get hit hard enough it will make you mic shy for a while. Every time I was playing on bare concrete. If you play on concrete it's a good idea to wear rubber sole shoes or you can possibly become a ground rod. Plate

[HotBluePlates]

Unfortunately, my experience was on a wooden stage... couldn't blame the concrete for that one! 

Yeah, anything to do with electricity and concrete is prime-time for shocks.

[PRR]

I used to hold the guitar amp plug in one hand and go near the mike. With that same hand, slap the mike. If there's a shock, it's all in one hand, not through heart; and quick if you just brush don't grab.

This should be repeated for all amps on stage. (At this time I was roadie-ing so _I_ verified amp operation and safety; in a smaller act each player should check his own.)

It "should" be repeated for every microphone, but if they all go to the *same* mixer then they are unlikely to differ. (I *was* involved with a PA/Film setup where the film-sound was 60V hot, the film dude would not believe it, some diplomacy and deception was required.)

[Platefire]

I'm probably safe because my wife tells me "Nothing Shocks You anymore"!   

[phsyconoodler]

 Funny,as my hearing is going I need more treble.I like it a lot but people tell me I'm too bright sometimes on stage.I can't hear some high frequency noises at all where people with better hearing are covering their ears!
  I bring my daughter over so she can help me diagnose high-frequency reverb issues.She hates it but I can't afford a 2000.00 hearing aid!

[Platefire]

My hearing is at the point where I hear a constant noise in my ears that I would compare to when you walk outside on a summer night and hear all the crickets and insects creaking. I don't notice it much as long as there is noise of daily activity going on around me but at night when I go to bed and everything is quiet it's really loud.

How it's effecting my music, hard to tell? I have consciously started playing at a lower volume than I would generally want to hear to compensate for my hearing loss. My wife tells me I'm a little too loud sometimes. That's why I like a master volume on all my amps now to get that breakup and touch response at a lower volume. You just miss out on the power tube breakup doing that. I think a fatter tone with less highs are more tollerable to the audiance than the ice pick tone. I like the fatter tone these days. At least I'm hearing it fatter but it my be coming out brighter than I think. We may as well laugh and joke about these senior issues, just part of growing old, these bodies do wear out. Plate

Ecclesiastes 12: 6 & 7 has a poetic way of saying it-----Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the weel broken at the cistern. Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return to God who gave it. 

[DummyLoad]

...but at night when I go to bed and everything is quiet it's really loud.

that reads like you have tinnitus...

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/tinnitus/DS00365

it may be treatable.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/tinnitus/DS00365/DSECTION=treatments-and-drugs

respectfully,

--pete

[Platefire]

Yep, thanks from bringing that to my attention. I started really noticing it just prior to my last 6 month checkup and intended to bring it to my doctors attention but forgot. I got another one coming up in Sept, I will for sure this time. Thanks, Plate

BTW-The 1967 Super Reverb is back home with the owner. This same guy, I've had to tell him before that some amps have to have the pedal plugged in to get tremolo. Also told him about how to a basic check to your power cord ground with a multi meter. He has a ton of tube amps and always buying and sellling--with all that activity, he needs to know how to do this. 

[Jack1962]

Ok, we'll go with the amp. Shame on it for 30 minuets or maybe even 45. 

I don't know if it's a senior thing, or my hearing is getting too bad or my taste is changed or all of the above but I can't stand too bright of an amp anymore and in my younger days I thought bright sound was the cats meow.

I had mentioned earlier in this post the customer wanted me to check the ground connection on the power cord to see if it was connected correctly. I didn't pull the chassis and just did continuity check from ground prong on plug to chassis and it was good. Who ever installed the three conductor cord left the ground switch functional but-----in talking to the customer last night said he was shocked while playing through this amp. I have had no problem and played it many time over last few days---wonder if the cap on the ground switch could have gone bad? Since he said he got shocked, maybe I should pull the chassis and have a closer look! Plate

Brother I ALWAYS disconnect the polarity switch , this is why if you switch the white(-) and the black(+) wires you are basically connecting the hot wire(black) to the chassis

[PRR]

> like you have tinnitus...

Many of us, yeah, well duh!

Too much testosterone over too many decades of too-loud sounds.

> it may be treatable.

Yes, Ask Your Doctor. It *may* be a side-effect of some other condition.

But mostly, it's the last-gasp of dying ear-nerves. There's a pitch. Mine has slid from 19KHz in my 20s to 2KHz now. My hearing-loss curve tracks my tinnitus pitch. The nerves die-off smallest first. Small is high-pitch. They don't die in strict order, so it's a hiss. About an octave wide, but no very-high tone (with me "high" is little above 2KHz).

That Mayo clinic page lists some awful strong drugs which would only be used in severe cases. (Tinnitus can be internally deafening, and depressing.)

You younger guys: AVOID LOUD SOUNDS!!

But some of it is genetic. I've been quite careful since my 20s, but I'm tracking the path of my father and grandfather.

[Willabe]

You younger guys: AVOID LOUD SOUNDS!!

Yes! Yes! Yes!

I remember being at the Aragon Ballroom (Chgo.) in the 70's and many times we would leave with our ears ringing for 3, 4 hours.

One time I actually FEARED FOR MY LIFE BECAUSE IT WAS SOOOOO LOUD THAT I COULD FEEL MY ABDOMINAL AND CHEST CAVITY LITTERALY SHAKING!!!!

My main body was RESONATING like a drum skin but it was inside and no I wasn't doing any acid.      

Never felt it before or since then, thank God.    

To Kevin O'Connor's credit (and others) he has been a BIG voice (at least on the net) in turning the volume down to save your hearing, "the quite revolution starts here", ie, Power Scaling.

That's why/where Power Scaling came from, in his trying to get the same tone from a cranked amp but at a much lower dB level.


                  Brad      

Edit; It was Santana with the Tower of Power horn section, huh, go figure?  
  
  

[Platefire]

ZZ Top in the mid 70's did me major damage--the loudest band I ever heard. I was close to the bandstand in the standing crowd. My ears started hurting and I kneeled down behind the people
to help block the wall of sound hitting me. I was so crowded in that it was not convenient to get out, so I just kneeled down. I should have forced my way out of there and got out. That was the worst ear pain I ever had---I know it was some major damage that day.
  Also I remember ear pain in the drummers house we use to practice at in the 70's. We would rehearse in a empty bedroom with large amps, drums and a PA all crowded in, stoned and Kranked. I know I did major damage there also. Very Foolish! I'm surprised I can still hear as well as I do after all that. Plate

[super&plexi]

NO JOKE NO JOKE NO JOKE......I can not stress enough the importance of 'watching out for', 'caring for' whatever you want to call it; your hearing!. 

I get crackling-distortion in my right ear, have been to the Doctors, Doc says cleanest ears i've seen. have to go to specialist to find small tear, loud music-machine shops, bikes w/straight pipes, shotguns,pistols,  it all WILL TAKE TOLL. not might. know famous musicians that have to have special monitor systems to record. know big name drummer w/deaf DOG. Dog likes to hang w/him when he practices,rehearses. spend the money on fitted earplugs, the kind that reduce all freqs. hell the foam cheapies, or even toilet paper is helping. if you're prone to earaches, don't wet it. if not,
wetting can help ''quicky paper jobs''. IF YOU ARE HERE, YOU CARE ABOUT AMPS, SOUND, TONE, YOU CAN'T CARE IF YOU CAN't HEAR. (Garret Morris)

if it hurts your ears, chances are damage is being done, irreparably. I've played all my life, and wish I listened more,(pun, I know). If anyone remembers Phil Silvers in Mad World,........''You'll SEE You'll SEE!''    ............. but you wont hear. please take care of 'em now. sorry if in wrong place, but striking a nerve-should be in every post, along with admonitions of hey you kids, stop skateboarding...Just Kidding, about skateboarding.

[Platefire]

Eh?

[alerich]

I've been failing the high frequency portion of hearing tests since I was 17. My ears have been ringing 24-7 for about 35 years. Loud music? Yes... but it's not rock bands and Marshall stacks and all that stuff. It was from misuse of headphones. I see it today. It's not just the musicians that are in trouble. All these kids with iPods with the earbuds so loud you can hear it a few feet away. They're all going to be hard of hearing and tinnitus sufferers in a generation.

I don't go out much anymore to see live music. I take earplugs with me when I do. I have a set of those Hearos rubber earplugs. They are nice. Cuts the volume without killing all the high end. My ex and I went to see KISS on their Farewell (cough) Tour in 2001. Two nights in a row in Birmingham and Atlanta. In Birmingham we were in the 3rd row in front of Ace. I can attest to the comment above about your internal organs resonating from the volume. I can't understand how the people around me survived without earplugs. The next night in Atlanta I grabbed 6-8 pair of the foam earplugs and stuffed them in my pocket. We were on Ace's side of the arena - lower level - about at the blue line. Ted Nugent was the opener. As soon as Uncle Ted hit his first chord I started handing out the earplugs to the folks around me. I could have easily sold them for $100 a pair.

It's not so much the volume that keeps me away these days. It the atrocious lack of talent by FOH mixers.