New 5E3 type Head

[Platefire]

This is my variation of the original 5E3 in head form. Pretty much the same original circuit but only two inputs(one per channel), .022's on the preamp stages, standby switch and removable/plug in power cord. I did one like this a couple of years ago. This one my Son Greg helped me with it mostly on the consmetics. Platefire

[Platefire]

Amp with covers on.

[Platefire]

Rear view

[Slimtim]

Very nice and clean layout,good work.

[archaos]

Nice stuff Man, congrats ! You need to record some clips now...

[tubenit]

Great job.  Nice looking amp!

with respect, Tubenit

[kagliostro]

Good Job  

K

[Ghetto_Soundwave]

Top shelf build Sir.. top shelf indeed.

[plexi50]

Looks great there. Isnt it amazing that some of the most simple circuits sound great? Less insertion loss

[Platefire]

Thanks! It started as an idea of an amp to sell. A bare knuckels 5E3 with a few modern appointments but bare bones enough to keep the price low. This was to be something to work on and hopefully make money in my retirement. The parts for this one was ordered in early 2011---Har things happen!   There seems to be tons of 5E3 Heads out there now these days for about the price I paid for parts on this one. We'll see! It sounds and operates great. I've got all the process documented so I can reproduce it identical. May try to sell it locally first and if not, go e-bay. No hurry, no worry, I'm enjoying it myself.
  The Pix here below is the prototype that my Son helped me tweak. He loved the sound/response but didn't like my cosmetics. He ended up with the prototype and he repainted the cover black covering up my "5E3" symbol. So on the new one all the cosmetic choices/changes was his.
  The general metal head cab idea came from my love of my 1958 Dukane 5F6A conversion shown below also. Just love the appearance of those old 50's PA Heads with perforated covers. Of course that's the same vision Vox Night Train followed. Platefire

[zendragon63]

A rather tidy, neat build Plate. Less can be more. Rock on! Regards

dennis

[Slimtim]

That green and 5e3 looked good to me but black is the safe color for gear.

[ajeffcote]

Very nice! Did you fab the chassis and the cage/top?

[Ed_Chambley]

Hey Plate.  Love the look.  I like the blue knobs contrast with the chassis.

[sluckey]

Hey Plate.  Love the look.  I like the blue knobs contrast with the chassis.

Me too. Very classy. 

[Platefire]

Thanks Ya'll! I'll have to pass the good news on to my Son that folks are liking the appearance. I went against my own personal taste regaurding colors and let him have full control of the appearance/cosmetics. Looks like that was a good call. Plate

BTW-  ajeffcote---no I didn't fabricate the chassis/cage, it's stock Hammond parts.

[Willabe]

I agree looks great inside and out!

I'd be proud to take that build to a gig.


           Brad     

[Platefire]

Here is the schematic. If anybody sees any mistakes, let me know.  Plate

[Platefire]

I've been playing around with the interactive volume/Tone settings on this amp. Anybody aware of any documented settings for different sounds for this amp someone may have posted on an old thread or have a link to a page on this? As popular as this amp is it just seems to me that a detailed set of settings=Sound should have already been documented on this--but maybe not, haven't found it yet. Platefire 

[HotBluePlates]

Only in a general way...

Turn one channel's volume full-up. Turn the other channel's volume to half.

When playing through the full-up channel, the guitar will be distorted and have maximum midrange; the mids seem to be increased when the un-used channel's volume is about halfway up.

When playing through the half-up channel, the guitar will be clean and have minimum midrange; the mids seem to be reduced when the un-used channel's volume is full-up.

Some have suggested an A/B pedal and these volume control settings allow for two distinct sounds from the 5E3. Of course, the tone control for the one channel adds some extra flexibility.

[Platefire]

OK, Thanks! I will try that. Guess it's really to simple to make much of a documentation issue out of. Just plug, adjust and play and remember what sounds best to you.

I've been playing around with a low volume responsive setting for my LP:

bright chan: vol=8:00 oclock, tone=3:00 oclock

Normal chan: vol=75% to 100%

I change guitars around a lot, so I have a habit of having a sheet with different favorite settings written down for each amp as a quick go to ballpark settings--and then tweak from there. Finding my Tele & strat seems to go best with the normal chan and humbucker guitars with the bright. Platefire

[HotBluePlates]

... I change guitars around a lot, so I have a habit of having a sheet with different favorite settings ...

That's the nail on the head, isn't it? 

The problem with giving "recommended settings" is your guitar might sound differently than mine. Not to mention I might want a lot of mids, and it seems you prefer the scooped-mids sound of having the "other channel" full-up.

So the only advice worth following for the 5E3 is this: fiddle the volume of the channel you're not using, as a "hidden tone control".

[Platefire]

Well in foolen around with these settings at high volume I've discovered I've got stactic coming through that didn't surface at the lower volume settings. When you strike a power cord you get static along with it. I tried a different V1 and V2 but still no change. Looks like the next step is take the cover off and start checking the circuit. Platefire

BTW-Last time I had a problem like this is was a bad solder connection to ground.  

[Platefire]

Well I found the bad static problem at high volume---it was an un-soldered connection to the center term of the bright channel volume pot. It wasn't even mechanically tight. Don't know how I missed that one but I did.

I have to admit, even though my wife was not happy    the distorted tones at top volume are pretty awesome coming from this amp. Now without any static 

[Slimtim]

Share some samples with us please.

[Platefire]

Since my computer crashed last month and had to be reformated, I lost a lot of the recording ability I had. Need to try to re-install some programs to get my ability to make mp3's back. Plate

[plexi50]

Im just finishing a 5E3 head cab build. Man these things just sound phenomminal*  I have to paint the chassis and do the face plate. I sort a did my chassis panel in reverse like a marshall. I used the old fender i believe packtron blue tone and coupling caps. I also have a real 1958 deluxe output transformer in it. Crank the volume to just about any setting and roll back the guitar volume. Complete control from clean to serious nice overdrive. I threw it together in some spare time so i didnt think of painting it first. Dah! The chassis is a Bogen CHB-35

[Platefire]

Nice! I see you used just two inputs like I did and also added a standby. You can't jump the channels without having 4 inputs but from what I've read the real beauty is not in jumping channels but the internal mix you get by just using the unused channels vol control. I've been playing with that. As you say, with this circuit you can do wonderful things with this amp just using your guitar volume to go between clean to drive and everything in between. The amp is very responsive to your pick attack and dynamics. The bright channel handles humbucker guitars very nicely and normal seems to be better with teles & strats. Also with an A/B/Y box you can do channel switching & set one channel as clean and one as drive---but I haven't tried that yet.

Lately expermenting with my LP. My favorite for that so far for mostly clean setting with moderate break up at highest guitar volume is in the bright channel, vol=7:00, tone=2:30 & Normal channel vol=8:00(slight mid boost)---this is Allman Bros territory! Platefire

[plexi50]

the real beauty is not in jumping channels but the internal mix you get by just using the unused channels vol control

That is just before the grid cut off in the unused channel. It does sound good that way. I had a 12AX7 in V1 and didnt realized it until the gain hit my brain. I forgot my RCA 12AY7. The amp sounds great using either tube but i think the 12AY7 is smoother and belongs there. Then again i change my mind hourly. Either tube sounds great

[Platefire]

Hi Plexi50

IMPORTANT Please look a reply #4 of attached link. Sluckey provided the best explination including highlighted schematic I've ever seen regarding the operation of the 5E3 tone stack. Every 5E3 lover should read this.
http://www.el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=10386.0



Yep, I agree with you that your idea of settings change hourly as you play the amp more. I did try the 12ax7 in V1 in my other hoffman(record player) coversion 5E3 and was impressed initally but latter came to the same conclusion that the 12ay7 was smoother. I tried my tele last night in the bright channel and was able to get some nice twang and darker sounds also. I thought it might be too bright in that channel, but not so! However there is also the factor of the tone cap being bypassed and the amp getting darker as the gain goes up. Nothing wrong with even cutting the un-used channel all the way off and using the channel plugged ino straight--but the option of dialing in the unused channel with different guitars gives you more tonal/gain options. Kinda nice! From what I've experianced it seems I could dial in any guitar I got and get my kind of tone.

The question now is how this buddy will perform under a load in a live band setting. I've been thinking of taking it to use with my church group(complete with loud drummer) this weekend and hooking it up to my BoogieRocket/4-10 cab but wonder if that would be too much load for the 12 watts? I can use the 4-10, or a 1-12 or 1-10 cab. I guess I'll experment big and downsize if required. Platefire

[plexi50]

That is a good explanation of the 5E3 TS. I just cant say enough good things about the 5E3. I painted the chassis today. Turned out ok. Looks better than it did. I will do the print script tomorrow if my hand held printer still has tape in it. I dont even know where it is right now. I have to go fishing in a closet or some thing. Found it but no tape Staples time.

Also one last thing. I have a 400VDC B+ right now as i am using the original Bogen CHB power transformer. I have a Deluxe power transformer on the way to me. It sounds so good now but i love the 5Y3 recto thing. Plus i can plug in a SS rectifier plug later if i like the higher B+ of 400 VDC

[Platefire]

Chassis looks good! Yep, those Bogen CHB series amps always had kind of a undersized PT for the requirement at hand and they used voltage doubler power supply to hedge up the differnce. I've had a CHB 50, 20A and a 10A, still got the 20A. I just wonder without the voltage doubler power supply and a 5Y3 if the final DC would be in the classic 5E3 range? I think that is around 360VDC on the 6V6 Plates with the amp loaded.

Got to do some rather loud expermenting on the 5E3 with my tele last night. My wife was in the computer room    plugged into the bright channel, Normal vol seting 3:00, bright chan tone 9:00 and vol at 3:00. Really impressed with the sound of the distortion crunch when guitar vol is full up and when you turn the guitar vol down the clean sound is fender crisp and touch sensitive. I don't know how to properly describe it but in the unused normal chan with the volume at 75 to 100%, it supresses the vol level in the plugged in bright channel and adds a level of touch reposiveness like a master vol would plus a level of mids that takes the bright edge off of tele. With this setting you can actually control the vol on the normal channel by moving it closer to 100% for less volume and to 75% for more volume---weird! but pretty cool. Platefire

BTW-even though I've built several 5E3's, this is the first one I've has a chance to experment with. I built one for a friend and he gobbled it up before I got much of chance to try it out. The next one I took it to my sons house to let him try it out, and it never left--he kept it. This ones mine for now

[Platefire]

I tell you what--the tele and 5E3 is just a great Classic American tone combination. Plate

[plexi50]

The 5E3 is really a time machine. 

[Platefire]

I really like this youtube vidio of a tele/mission 5E3 of "When the Saints Go Marching In" Great example of the combination twang and 5E3 grind. Plate

Twangin' Tele Through a Tweed Deluxe

[plexi50]

Can i play with the voltage doubler and remove it's current wiring schem? Solder like fender SS rectification? Have wondered also what the B+ would be with the Bogen transformer. 360VDC +  plate would be safer than 400-425. Dont have it apart right now to do some checking.

[Platefire]

I'm thinking if you check your AC from PT before the voltate doubler/SS rectifier, it could be calculated how much DC it would produce with a 5Y3(or SS rec) with a 5E3 load. This calculation would be over my head but I'm thinking PRR, Sluckey or many others here could handle it. They could probably advise on how to measure the AC and calculate it.

I really don't know how much the 5Y3 sag and correct value filter caps/resistors contribute to the 5E3 operation?? It may be considerable or not much? That's another question for somebody else to answer.
That would be quiet a mod to change all that over. Just depends on where you want to go with it, rather your existing PT would work--a different SS rectifier setup or simple re-arrangment of diodes, existing filer caps and resistors might just be the ticket to get in the 360 range loaded depending on the existing PT output. Plate

[sluckey]

Can i play with the voltage doubler and remove it's current wiring schem?

You will have to use a bridge with that Bogen PT. Measure the VAC between the red and red/yel wires. Multiply by 1.414 to get unloaded B+.

[plexi50]

Ok thanks Steve. I have 185 VAC divided by 1.414 = 261.59 VAC.

[sluckey]

261 is the most B+ you can get with that PT and a bridge. Better just stick with the doubler.

[plexi50]

261 is the most B+ you can get with that PT and a bridge. Better just stick with the doubler.

Yeah i just buttoned it back up for now. It does sound great as is. Thanks

[Platefire]

I didn't see where you said but I assume your still running the original 7868's in there? Yeah if your happy with the sound and your amp is already set up for those, I wouldn't change a thing. I really like my Bogen CHB-20A. I did very little re-wiring on it--fender input, re-located the MV to PPI, insalled speaker jack & standby switch. I even liked the rust on it and left the cosmetics all original. Plate  

[plexi50]

I am using 6V6GT power tubes. Westinghouse. They should be dead. I have had them in many an amp and they have been pushed pretty hard over the past 4 years. Still read 90% on an emission scale. Never got hold of a Bogen CHB-20A yet.
I like Rust! Rust Never Sleeps*

[Platefire]

OK, Westinghouse 6V6's. I've got an old set of Sylvania 6V6's in my ST 1482. Got the smoked glass and sound great--I just don't know how you would know if they were red -plating with the smoked/shaded glass? I guess when the smoke starts rising. So far no smoke signals.

On the rust that never sleeps plus keeps growing! Amerian Pickers call it "Partina" or the state of growing more beautiful with age. I'm old but don't know if I'd fit in the Partina catagory

[plexi50]

Yeah those old green script smoked sylvanias are great sounding tubes. I think old and patina = wrinkles and red eye.
Man that hammond chassis you have really looks great! Was it expensive?

[Platefire]

On the Hammond Chassis--Expensive IMHO yes. Perforated cage=$45, Chassis=$27 & bottom plate=$12. So total $84. You could buy a lot of wood for that.

On the paint job. My Son was involved with that(cosmetics) and he borrowed a portable paint booth, did a lot of on line research, tried several different types of paints/proceedures without any successful results. He had painted successfully several guitar bodies on guitar builds and though he was up to the task for the chassis but just couldn't get it to come out to what he was looking for. I ended up taking it to a musician friend of mine that also runs an auto body repair shop. It was already primed and prepped, so all he needed to do is paint it. Just so happens that he was working on a couple of vehicals that required just the colors we wanted. He just worked it in with the different jobs of white and black paint jobs. Charged me $20.00. So now it's up to $104 plus with hardware and feet it's probably at $120 for comleted chassis alone. I was wanting that old perferated PA head appearance, but what a price to pay.
I could have made a white pine head cab for a lot less(but more labor) like I did on the pictured modifed 5E3 head. Platefire  

[plexi50]

You build some nice amps for sure. I may just buy one of those chassis's and go for broke. It's worth it considering the final product is so well done it stands out like a jewel.  Super nice!

[Platefire]

Thank You! Took it to church tonight and set it up with a 1-12 cab 100watt Carvin British Series speaker.
Sound checked it using my jamMan backup band throught the PA and it's going to be plenty loud enough. I actually had to turn it down from initial setting. Really impressed with the tone control and compression accomplished throught the bright channel and turning the unused normal channel up about 90%. Actually controlling the bright chan volume with the normal channel volume. Really acting like a MV but with better compression effect. It mellowed out the ice pick edge off the tele with nice round tone yet still retained a nice tele twang on the bridge pu. Happy Happy Happy Plate   

[plexi50]

Happy is good. Then there is really happy! Really happy lasts longer too.  

This is the inside of my chassis. It was a fast throw together and i just went with the tube locations as they were already on the chassis. Those old blue fender glob caps sure sound great/

I use 470r screens. I can hear a nice difference (more liquid shimmer) without them. But that may just be the power tubes ready to explode.
I figured it was better to be safe than sorry because my B+ is higher

[Willabe]

Actually controlling the bright chan volume with the normal channel volume. Really acting like a MV but with better compression effect. It mellowed out the ice pick edge off the tele with nice round tone yet still retained a nice tele twang on the bridge pu.

Happy Happy Happy Plate

That is great news! Mind if I join in a little?    

The more I mess with the interactive volume controls the more I've  been thinking that it really is up to each player, their guitar/PUP's and the way they play, to get what they can from the interactive volume controls. Not 1 size fit's all.


          Brad