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Hoffman Amps Forum image Author Topic: Guild 66-J Amp..........  (Read 8445 times)

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Offline Jack_Hester

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Guild 66-J Amp..........
« on: December 20, 2013, 05:37:27 pm »
Sorry for not posting regular.  It's been a very busy year, but I do check in daily, if only for a few minutes.  I figured that this info may be helpful to someone, for future repair work of this model amp.  

I just took delivery of a Guild Model 66-J amp, on Monday (16Dec13).  Before I purchased it, I searched for a schematic and found only one original.  But, I did find Sluckey's nicely drawn schematic on this site.  Tuesday, I put it up on the bench to bring it up on the lamp limiter.  I had been forewarned that the fuse block was broken.  It's one of those little ones, that holds the glass fuse in two clips, mounted inside on the chassis.  One clip was gone.  I'm thinking to myself that this is going to be an easy fix.  I jumper the two wires together, as my limiter has it's own fuse holder, with a 3 amp fuse installed.  

So, it's on the limiter, and by the time I'm up to a 100W bulb, I notice the first resistor in the power supply is starting to get hot.  This is definitely not the first time that's happened, because it's a 3 watt resistor and the color bands are cooked beyond reading.  I start checking the amp against the schematic (original and Sluckey's), and my amp doesn't match.  Mine is a 7 tube, and the schematic is for a 6 tube.  The insides of this amp have all the appearances of not being touched, and everything looks original to the amp.  I make a quick check of DC voltages throughout the amp, knowing they will be low.  I have high voltages where they should be, so I power it down.  

Frustrated, I begin the slow process of drawing a schematic from scratch.  I decided to make a layout drawing of the whole amp, including the chassis.  That way, I can have it on the screen while I'm making a schematic.  Between my multimeter and my capacitor tester, I came up with all the values, though a couple are questionable.  I indicated those on the drawing, the cooked one being one of those.  

All pots are 1M in value, and dated to '57.  There is a 12" Jensen dated at '56, and two small speakers (maybe 3" each) paralleled to each other, date not determined on those.  Speakers appear to be original to the amp, or at least as old as the amp.  The 12" has a DC ohms just a little above 6.  The two paralleled have the same.  So, each load can be considered as 8 ohms impedance.  For now, I'm assuming their connection to be at two different 8 ohm taps.  

I completed the schematic, along with the layout.  I made the schematic very spread out, to be easy to see, and to go back and make it look a bit better.  But for now, it's good to have something to troubleshoot by.  The configuration is a departure from what I'm used to seeing.  And maybe it's just the way I have it drawn.  

As a final step before troubleshooting, I put my auto-transformer on the primary of the OT and connected a meter to the primary and secondary.  I eased the voltage up to 30vAC, and saw nothing on the secondary.  So, I shut it down and disconnected all.  I took DC resistance readings of the primary and secondary.  The primary is open.  No resistance at all.  The secondary has low ohms, but I forget what they were.  I've got to purchase a replacement, though this one has four leads on the secondary.  One lead was taped back.  It's color may originally have been red, but it's too faded to tell.  The other three leads are also too faded to tell their color.  I'll go back and check the primary again with my Meggar set for 500v.  I forgot about it earlier, when I was in the amp.  That will prove an open real quick.  I'll make resistance readings of the secondary, to have some idea of what I'll need for a replacement.  

Anyway, use this drawing as reference, and please note errors, if you see them.  I'll make corrections and re-post.  Have a good one.

« Last Edit: December 21, 2013, 08:23:59 am by Jack_Hester »
"We sleep safe in our beds
because rough men stand ready in the night
to visit violence on those who would do us harm."

                                                   ---George Orwell

stratele52

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Re: Guild 66-J Amp..........
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2013, 03:55:37 am »
Shematic here ;  Easy with Google

http://www.el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=13357.0
____________________________
J66 amp picture here ;

http://www.ggjaguar.com/66j.htm

I have a Guild Thunder Reverb , a real piece of Sh%#T  to fix . And I fix many many amps
« Last Edit: December 21, 2013, 04:00:20 am by stratele52 »

Offline Jack_Hester

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Re: Guild 66-J Amp..........
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2013, 06:24:27 am »
Shematic here ;  Easy with Google

http://www.el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=13357.0

That is where I found Sluckey's nice schematic, and the original that matches the one I found.  I used Google to find both, before I purchased.  And as I stated, neither match my amp.  Those are for a 6 tube model.  Mine is a 7 tube.

____________________________
J66 amp picture here ;

http://www.ggjaguar.com/66j.htm

That's a nice looking amp, as well.  Not mine, either.  Here's a couple pictures of mine:





That's why I posted the schematic and layout of mine, as it is so different from the ones that I found.  I'm sure that when I am able to begin the repairs, I will find discrepancies in my drawing(s).  I'll make corrections and post those here.  Thanks for your response, and the picture.  Have a good one.

Jack
"We sleep safe in our beds
because rough men stand ready in the night
to visit violence on those who would do us harm."

                                                   ---George Orwell

Offline Willabe

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Re: Guild 66-J Amp..........
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2013, 10:52:32 am »
Cab is in nice shape except for the bottom and I like that kind of grill cloth.

Hey you have a DeArmond tremolo. Those are supposed to sound real good.


              Brad     :icon_biggrin:

Offline Jack_Hester

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Re: Guild 66-J Amp..........
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2013, 12:29:45 pm »
Hey you have a DeArmond tremolo. Those are supposed to sound real good.
I've had the Tremolo unit sitting around for a long while.  Didn't figure it to be in as good of a condition as it was.  Making the drawings of the amp was very tiring, so yesterday (Fri) I dug through some of the old equipment laying around, waiting their turn for attention.  This was small, and a complete departure from amps.  I had cleaned it up, back when I first got it.  But, nothing more.  

So, off came the cover, and I aired it out a bit, to clear the dust and cobwebs.  Everything was free moving by hand, so I powered it up to see how well it ran.  It is quiet.  I connected it to a little Harmony 303C amp that is another little jewel.  The little canister inside was dry, but I wanted to see how well it passed a signal.  The 'Increase' pot was very scratchy.  That cleaned up very well with a bit of DeOxit.  The backside of the pot has plenty of openings to mist it with some.  

Next, I de-soldered the opening on the top, holding it upside down and drawing it out.  Sometime back, I was discussing Dan Formosa's website with a friend at work, and described his instructions on refilling the canister.  I stated that I wanted to put a rubber cap on the filler nipple, rather than soldering it back.  He brought me one of his allergy shot syringes with a really long needle, and an assortment of little rubber caps.  He's a packrat like myself.  He's just organized, and knows where everything is stored.  The cap is a screw thread protector, that comes on various pieces of equipment, that we get in.  He and I both scarf these up.  Mine are in many bags/boxes, with lots of other rescued items.  His are in drawers.  

Anyway, yesterday, I played with different levels of window cleaner (my wife buys 'brand x'), until I found the best.  What a beautiful sound.  Not like that of a tube oscillator, or with as much range.  But, a wonderful sound of its own.  I can't do it justice, so it's going to Church, tomorrow for my friend Don to take home.  He has one of my little Oahu amps and my Supro Lap Steel.  He's borrowed them to learn some Christmas music on.  The little Oahu will go well with this.  May even make the Christmas music that much better.

I put just a drop of vintage Singer Sewing Machine Oil on the wheel hub bearing, and a drop on the little felt washer between the tapered shaft and the motor bearing.    

Here's some pictures of it, that I sent to Dan:






Jack
« Last Edit: December 21, 2013, 12:34:51 pm by Jack_Hester »
"We sleep safe in our beds
because rough men stand ready in the night
to visit violence on those who would do us harm."

                                                   ---George Orwell

Offline Willabe

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Re: Guild 66-J Amp..........
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2013, 12:51:04 pm »
What a beautiful sound.  Not like that of a tube oscillator, or with as much range.  But, a wonderful sound of its own.  I can't do it justice, so it's going to Church, tomorrow for my friend Don to take home.  He has one of my little Oahu amps and my Supro Lap Steel.  He's borrowed them to learn some Christmas music on.  The little Oahu will go well with this.  May even make the Christmas music that much better.

Very nice of you Jack taken care of musician friends at church. I hear the Lord loves music.    :icon_biggrin:

Yeah I bet those 3 will sound great together!

That 1 looks real clean.

IIRC the guy that owns Angela sent 2 of those to Billy Gibsons of ZZTop and Billy said between the 2 they got 1 up and running and used it on some recordings. Billy said he loves it.

There's a thread or 2 here on it somewhere, maybe in effects?


            Brad     :icon_biggrin:
« Last Edit: December 21, 2013, 12:55:47 pm by Willabe »

Offline Jack_Hester

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Re: Guild 66-J Amp..........
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2013, 12:57:28 pm »
Every once in a while, Don will do a guitar/vocal solo.  I'm hoping that he's got something electric planned for this Sunday, the last before Christmas.  Maybe it will need Tremolo. 
"We sleep safe in our beds
because rough men stand ready in the night
to visit violence on those who would do us harm."

                                                   ---George Orwell

Offline Willabe

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Re: Guild 66-J Amp..........
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2013, 01:13:38 pm »
Maybe it will need Tremolo. 

Yes it needs tremolo!      :laugh:


        Merry Christmas Jack



                   Brad     :icon_biggrin:

Offline Steve_P

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Re: Guild 66-J Amp..........
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2013, 06:34:28 pm »
It surprises me than no one has built a reproduction of those tremolos. They are tres cool!

Back to the topics at hand... :icon_biggrin:

Jack, can you post a pic of the control panel? Is it the chassis with the switch for the tremolo or is it one of the chassis they bought from Ampeg?

Offline Jack_Hester

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Re: Guild 66-J Amp..........
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2013, 07:46:59 pm »
It surprises me than no one has built a reproduction of those tremolos. They are tres cool!
Check out this fellow:

http://gretschpages.com/forum/other-equipment/jayce-is-in-the-shed-tremolo/47271/

Link is from Dan Formosa's site.

Quote
Back to the topics at hand... :icon_biggrin:

Jack, can you post a pic of the control panel? Is it the chassis with the switch for the tremolo or is it one of the chassis they bought from Ampeg?
It has a Footswitch jack, but I don't have one with it.  No other switch.

More pictures tomorrow, after Church.  Have a good one.

Jack
« Last Edit: December 21, 2013, 07:51:00 pm by Jack_Hester »
"We sleep safe in our beds
because rough men stand ready in the night
to visit violence on those who would do us harm."

                                                   ---George Orwell

Offline Jack_Hester

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Re: Guild 66-J Amp..........
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2013, 06:36:07 am »
I'm always an early riser, so I posted a couple more pictures.

Here's one of the amp control panel:



And, one of the open chassis:



One comment on the cabinet covering.  It doesn't appear to be cloth, or anything like tolex.  More like paper.  And, very thin at that.  So, it's remarkable that the covering is in as good of a condition, as it is.

Jack
"We sleep safe in our beds
because rough men stand ready in the night
to visit violence on those who would do us harm."

                                                   ---George Orwell

Offline smackoj

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Re: Guild 66-J Amp..........
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2013, 08:21:11 am »
cool looking amp jack. I always wondered about the Guild amps becuz I never heard about them before?

thanks for putting it on the forum.

smacko     :icon_biggrin:

Offline Steve_P

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Re: Guild 66-J Amp..........
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2013, 01:58:56 pm »
Gutshot of my 99J



On the 99J, the top is tweed and the bottom covering is a brown cloth. It isn't lacquered like the tweed, just glued on.



Top panel of the Mystery Guild Masteramp



Gutshot of same







On the Mystery amp, it has a white tolex and a woodgrained vinyl shelf paper.

On this Masteramp 60, it has a tweed top with a plain brown covering. It might be bookbinding cloth, similar to what Magnatone did with there amps. That is probably the same material that "your" 66J has.

Your baffleboard is mounted 180 degrees from the mystery amp. Those tweeters should be tied to the OT through a capacitor, right?
« Last Edit: December 22, 2013, 02:03:55 pm by Steve_P »

Offline Steve_P

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Re: Guild 66-J Amp..........
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2013, 02:07:41 pm »
That toolbox handle has to go. Ugh! :embarrassed:

Offline PRR

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Re: Guild 66-J Amp..........
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2013, 08:08:42 pm »
> That toolbox handle has to go. Ugh

The blue thing? Probably a suitcase handle. Standard hardware part back in the day. In another color on another amp it would be proper. But NOT on tweed suitcases; they used the leather slide handle. (There's a little overlap where leather-flop handles were put on tweedy suitcases to "modernize" them, but not blue nylon flop on beige tweed.)

Offline Steve_P

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Re: Guild 66-J Amp..........
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2013, 10:10:37 pm »
> That toolbox handle has to go. Ugh

The blue thing? Probably a suitcase handle. Standard hardware part back in the day. In another color on another amp it would be proper. But NOT on tweed suitcases; they used the leather slide handle. (There's a little overlap where leather-flop handles were put on tweedy suitcases to "modernize" them, but not blue nylon flop on beige tweed.)

sigh. Whatever. It is obviously not stock and similar to the handle of a vintage toolbox I keep my coldchisels in. We are in agreement that It's not stock. It's not a Guild handle.
Of the five Fifties-Early Sixties Guild amps I personally own, four of them have leather handles and one of them has the metal folding handle.
It needs a nice handle. :-D

Offline Steve_P

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Re: Guild 66-J Amp..........
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2014, 12:44:18 pm »
Just for comparison, a Univox from much later, but with half of a 12ax7 and both halves of a 12au7.


Offline eleventeen

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Re: Guild 66-J Amp..........
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2014, 01:55:37 pm »
Neat old Guild guitar!

I have a 1954 X-150 and a 1956 X-175. I bot them both very rough and had them both refin'ed. The X-150 is very demure, dark sunburst, has a 1956/7 Alnico square-magnet P-90 type Byrdland pickup on it. I wanted blond but Guilds have a characteristic such the tops are concave at the rims...the previous owner had sanded into the middle ply of the plywood.

The X-175, I had the neck refinished cherry red like an SG and had the neck profile changed from basball bat to '64 Strat. Mounted the switch in an L-5 donut, and had the body bound with 5-layer binding. It is an awesome axe, though I have too much money into it for what it is, a plywood guitar. Plays unbelievable. Ordinarily I don't like to have gits refin'ed.

Guild jazz boxes, for me, have to before late '56, cause they changed to a 24.75 scale from 25.5 and me no like.


I still have to get a real h-bucker pu for the bass pu. This one is a junkbox distorto screamer. It's only been about 8 years, LOL.


 












« Last Edit: January 13, 2014, 02:27:06 pm by eleventeen »

Offline Steve_P

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Re: Guild 66-J Amp..........
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2014, 07:58:44 pm »
The guitar is a Guild Special Run T-500. It's about a year old. It has Seymour Duncan Franz replica pups, it was before Fender reverse-engineered the original Franzes for Guild's electric line.

 


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