Any Brewers, Wine makers or distillers here?

[EL34]

I am just getting set up to make some small batches of home brewed hooch. 

Anyone else here do any home brewing?
beer, wine, distilled spirits?

What do you make?

[thermion]

i do quite a bit of beer brewing. no wine, mead, grog, shine or anything else.
small 5 gal runs of all kinds of stuff, all clones of commercial offerings. for example:
fullers london proter
dixie blackened voodoo
hacker pschorr dunkelweizen
north coast old rasputin
duvel gulden drak
pretty much all stuff that i can't readily find and when i do it costs me a ton. i don't brew lone star! shiner bock maybe...
i'm planning a run of ballard's trout tickler (english barleywine) very soon, can't wait to see how that turns out!
i brew entirely in glass (primary and secondary). i do force carbonation and serve from retired 5 gal corny kegs running off a 20# CO2 tank with bev-grade gas. it takes years for me to use up this tank and it's only about $15 to refill. i highly prefer this to bottling, and you can always fix your mate up with a growler to go. recycled grolsch and fisher bottles with the built-in cap work great for this.

[EL34]

I like that idea instead of bottling it all up.
I would be drinking it at my house anyway so why bottle it?
And you can always take a growler, like you said

I want to do some beer

How do you make your clones?
Do you use an ingredient kit or just find a recipe and throw it all together from scratch?

I have 4 gallons of mash going right now
Some peach brandy and some corn whiskey
Just small test batches, 2 gallons each to see how they come out.

I'll be distilling the corn whiskey in a couple days
The peach won't be ready until the weekend

[sluckey]

You better be careful. Barney's a'lookin! 

[Willabe]

You better be careful. Barney's a'lookin!  

And he's bin a drink in, "Jubal, Jubal, Jubal."

http://youtu.be/9SwLgF-yYy0


          Brad      

[EL34]

I'm sure Barney is out looking for a still that only that hold 4 quarts.

4 quarts of wash would only make 400ml of spirits at the most and not all of that would be drinkable

Barney would do better heading of into the woods to find a proper still. 

[EL34]

finished stillin the first corn mash last night

Came out really good
Only got a small amount, but what I got is as good as what is in the likker stores

I bought some of the Junior Johnson's NC made shine a couple weeks ago to see what it was like
They sell several flavors and plain corn shine at the stores now
His brand is called Midnight Moon
It was pretty good

Have to get together a beer making rig when I get time

[thermion]

I am blessed with an outstanding! homebrew shop here in Austin that has about every beer out there available in a kit. They also said once that if you have a brew you want to clone and they don't already have a kit for it you can bring in a sixxer and they can figure out the recipe for you from taste test. WoW!! Their kits are pretty much spot-on as far as the final product and the price is good.
You can get a kit as syrup only, grain only, or "minimash" which is a combo of grain and syrup. I usually do minimash but am moving to all grain. Also I have found many websites with example recipes for clones. The shop's recipes tell you exactly what is in the kit so once you do a few like that you'll get a feel for how it goes together and can attempt improvements or new creations altogether.
Kegging solved 2 big headaches for me: 1. I didn't have to bottle. cleaning, sanitizing, filling, and capping was just too much effort, and 2. you can do force carbonation instead of relying on your priming sugar to give you CO2.
Best of luck and keep it clean!

[EL34]

yeah, if I do beer, I would want to do the keg thing

I can drink beer faster than I can bottle it. 

[sluckey]

I can drink beer faster than I can bottle it.

Ain't that the truth! Me too! I've had an interest in making homebrew for a long time. Maybe this thread will motivate me. Gotta wait for a heat wave though.

[EL34]

yeah, makes no sense to me to have to go through all the steps it takes to bottle beer
Cleaning, filling, capping them, etc

That would discourage me right off the bat

I was not aware you could keg your own
I'll have to get more details on the Co2 thing

[thermion]

The main source of kegs ("corny") are retired soda syrup kegs made by cornelius. As everyone went to the "bladder-in-a-box" system for soda fountains, these kegs poured onto the market. As for the CO2, literally any size bottle will do with a decent 2 stage regulator. For a kegerator, a tiny 2.5# bottle and reg can fit in the cooler next to the keg, simplifying things. You'll need 3-5psi output for pouring, force carb can be up to 10x that while you are charging. Make sure you ask for beverage grade gas.
Another cool thing about the cornys is that you can daisy chain several kegs of the same beer for serving larger crowds if need be.

[EL34]

what are the brand names on the beer kits you like?

I will find them on amazon

[thermion]

The guys at the shop just whip up a kit from raw materials on the spot! They don a respirator and go in the grain room, fill that part of the order, go into the syrup room which is full of ~50gal drums of syrups, fill that, grab your hops, yeast, etc. and you're out the door. They also ship, $7 flat rate. Keep in mind the listed prices do not include yeast so figure in another ~$10 per pitch. 4-6% ABV style beers typically only single pitch, big beers need 2-3 to reach full potential.
Have a gander at their website:
http://www.austinhomebrew.com/
I am a big fan of the Wyeast activator yeast packs, never had any pitching issues with these.
Happy hunting!

 

[EL34]

great, thanks for the info
I'll check that shop out

[EL34]

The guys at the shop just whip up a kit from raw materials on the spot! They don a respirator and go in the grain room, fill that part of the order, go into the syrup room which is full of ~50gal drums of syrups, fill that, grab your hops, yeast, etc. and you're out the door. They also ship, $7 flat rate. Keep in mind the listed prices do not include yeast so figure in another ~$10 per pitch. 4-6% ABV style beers typically only single pitch, big beers need 2-3 to reach full potential.
Have a gander at their website:
http://www.austinhomebrew.com/
I am a big fan of the Wyeast activator yeast packs, never had any pitching issues with these.
Happy hunting!

I checked out the site
Looks like the kits cost almost as much as buying the beer off the shelf?

Example: One of my favorite beers is Highland Gaelic ale
http://www.austinhomebrew.com/product_info.php?cPath=178_452_43_441&products_id=11906

The base kit price is $40 + $7 for yeast + $7 shipping = $61

Each kit makes 5 gallons
5 gallons is 128 oz x 5 = 640 oz / 12 oz bottles = 53 bottles
$61 / 53 bottles = $1.15 per bottle

That's $7.02 a 6 pack
I can get it on sale less than that and be sure that it always is awesome

Plus having to buy all the gear to do the brewing
If my calculations are all correct that is

[sluckey]

Hey, you can change over to IceHouse and get a 12 pack for 8 bux.   

[EL34]

LOL

I actually drink plain old American Pilsner as my everyday beer.

I does not bother me to drink Miller Lite.
I like more expensive beers, but not as an every day beer at the rate I drink beer.

Some cork sniffer beer snobs will cringe at the thought of drinking an american pilsner but not me

[EL34]

I like wine with food once in a while but I don't drink much wine much at all
Maybe only a couple times a year

Wine does not agree with me
My body does not feel good at all when I drink wine
Even in small amounts
Something is just not right with wine and my body, not sure what it is.

I'm more of a beer guy

But I do like to sip on good sippin whiskey and bourbons
Just a small amount here and there

The main thing for me the last couple years has been to not ingest so much alcohol that I don't sleep well or feel bad in the morning
I find that low gravity beers still give me the satisfaction of drinking beer, but they don't make me feel bad

If I want to feel bad I head to one of the local breweries like Oscar blues which is just down the road
Just a couple of Dales beers cures me of drinking high gravity beers for a while

[Ritchie200]

I have several friends who are into beer and wine making - big time.  Well, big enough for personal and friends consumption.  One guy even had some stainless tanks built.  He is also an electrical engineer so everything is automated and temp controlled, pretty cool.  However, they all tell me about the bad batches that taste and smell good enough to drink, only to find themselves VERY regular for the next couple of days.....   But it's a hobby, right?  While I know I can build an amp that sounds better than anything at my local music store, I don't think I can brew something better than the big boys, or even the smallest micro.  I've tasted a lot of home brew and some was really good.  I just have not tasted anything that would discourage me from just heading to my fav liquor store.  My wife even bought me a brewing kit a couple of years ago - never fired it up (even after all sorts of encouragement and ribbing from my brewing buddies).

About 3 months ago I bought a bottle (last one at the store) from a local micro.  It was a stout aged about 6 months in a whiskey barrel and was about 18% alcohol.  It was exquisite.  It was the most perfect beer I have ever tasted.  Kind of like watching Jeff Beck, you want to give up guitar and become a bus conductor (what Jeff said about Hendrix).  I can not imagine brewing something and even coming close to that.  There is SO much out there these days - so many beers, so little time!  I just bought a six pack of Kona Brewing Company (Hawaii) Pipeline Porter.  I was not expecting tooooo much, as what beer resources are in Hawaii?  As my daughters would say, OMG!  Complex with a blend of malted barleys and local Kona coffee.  It was amazing.  I don't know, maybe I'm just too lazy to try home brewing.

However, every micro started out in a basement, so who am I!!!  Who am I?  I'm Jean Valjean!

Sorry, I couldn't help myself...
Jim

[thermion]

Yep some kits are a better value than others. And figure you'll spend an entire evening of your freetime making each batch, total opportunity cost there. The beers i make run me more like $10-12 for a sixxer around here. Indeed, I've never even seen trout tickler at any pricepoint... One bonus is that your kit will come with an exact recipe describing every ingredient along with detailed instructions on cookin. Really you only need to buy the kit once, get all the info, and then source out everything on your own the next time. Agreed the accoutrements of homebrewing is a bit of outlay, i found someone getting out of it and bought them out.
Cheers!

[EL34]

One bonus is that your kit will come with an exact recipe describing every ingredient along with detailed instructions on cookin. Really you only need to buy the kit once, get all the info, and then source out everything on your own the next time. Agreed the accoutrements of homebrewing is a bit of outlay, i found someone getting out of it and bought them out.

That makes sense
Problem is I already have too many hobbies and so I need some incentive to start one more.  
I'll probably hold off on beer brewing for a bit
I'll keep my eyes open for a deal on some brewing gear

I can see myself brewing up a porter or stout and not drinking it as an everyday beer.
Those beers are more like after dinner dessert beers to me.

The spirits brewing is working out great and you get way more out with little cost on the ingredients
It's easy to get $20 of good product from just $1 to $2 of ingredients

I just ordered some ingredients to make some black Sambuca which is way better than the plain old clear Sambuca you see served as an after dinner drink with coffee beans.
This would have a higher cost to make, but a 750ml bottle of back Sambuca is +$25 if you can find it at all.
You just need to start with 40% neutral alcohol and add the liquid flavorings

[EL34]

I have a distiller device to make drinkable spirits

A distiller used to make fuel is different because they are trying to distill to as close to 200 proof (100% alcohol) as possible.
Think ever clear or some clear pure alcohol with no flavor
They use column stills that are able to refine the output to very high levels of pure alcohol

A still used to make drinking spirits imparts some flavor from whatever your mash is made of

So a corn mash or a fruit mash would produce lower % alcohol and it would have some of the flavor of the mash
You might only get 120 proof (60% alcohol) but it would have some flavor

Jack Daniels and other sippin whiskeys are only like 40% - 80 proof

[Willabe]

I thought Jack was 90 proof? Wild Turkey is 120 proof. Bacardi 151 is 151 proof rum  


            Brad    

[EL34]

I don't know about all of those

I have some Jack Daniels here
It's 40% alcohol which is 80 proof

The alcohol is 1/2 whatever the proof number is

I think I have some now cause a taste of JD sounds good 

[Willabe]

I thought I was remembering it right. And no I never drank Jack, I drank beer. 

Jack Daniel's black label was historically produced at 90 U.S. proof (45% alcohol by volume).[14] The lower-end green label product was 80 proof. However, starting in 1987, the other label variations were also reduced in proof. This began with black label being initially reduced to 86 proof. (Both the black label and green label are made from the same ingredients; the difference is determined by professional tasters, who decide which of the batches would be sold under the higher-priced black label, the rest being sold under the green label.)

Then, starting in 2002, all generally-available Jack Daniel's products were diluted to 80 proof (including both black label and green label).[15] The reason stated for this was that the distillery's marketing had found that customers preferred a lower proof whiskey; this also simplified the production process.[citation needed] This reduction in alcohol content was condemned by Modern Drunkard Magazine and a petition was formed for drinkers who disagreed with the change.[15]

Jack Daniel's has produced higher-proof products at times. A one-time limited run of 96 proof, the highest proof Jack Daniel's had ever bottled at that time, was bottled for the 1996 Tennessee Bicentennial in a decorative bicentennial bottle. The distillery debuted their 94 proof "Jack Daniel's Single Barrel" in February 1997. The "2011 Holiday Select" is currently the company's highest proof at 100.



           Brad     

[EL34]

I'm having Old #7 jack, black label and watchin a movie

yum

[Willabe]

 


            Brad     

[thermion]

I'm interested, how does your still produce drinkable spirits (little or no proofing needed)? I was under the impression that shiners boiled off azeotropic ethanol:water into the proofing barrel, around 95% EtOH, then cut it back with water to 40-50% either by taste or a hygrometer.

[EL34]

The spirits are different from start to finish when running a batch on a still

Ethanol is what we are after which boils at 172F
Water boils at 212 F
So you boil the wash at lower temp than what water boils at and the alcohol boils off first
The steam is condense in a condenser and turned back to liquid

The distillation process is divided into 4 sections

(1) The first certain % is toxic methanol and a fingernail polish blend, say 10ml per a gallon of wash
This is where the go blind legends come from if you drink that part.
This stuff boils at a lower than ethanol temp and so comes out first
This is tossed out or used to start fires and clean things in the garage
This toxic stuff is present in all mashes
If you distill a bottle of wine, the toxic stuff is present in the wine
It's just there as part of the fermentation process


(2) The heads comes out after the nasty methanol section. - Lots of aroma, not the best drinking

(3) Then the hearts come after the heads - This is the cream of the crop, highest alcohol and best flavor

(4) Then the tails come after the heads - lots of fusal oils, lower alcohol and more water content

Eventually, the alcohol content tapers off to the point it's not worth running the still any more so you just shut it down
It becomes more and more water and less alcohol because the boiling point of what is left in the still is constantly changing

The heads and the tails are usually set aside and put into the next batch to be re-distilled
The alcohol is there but you want to get rid of all the other stuff that does not smell or taste as good as the hearts do.

It's not at all a linear process
The temp inside the still climbs as the alcohol is reduced and more water is left
You have to use your nose and taste buds to figure out how the whole batch is divided up

The hearts are all different also and can be divided up also
Many people do blends of different parts of the whole distillation

So basically, it's not just "Turn on the still, get all the alcohol and then turn off the still"
It's quite complex to do it right

[thermion]

Got it...so you uncouple the wash from the worm as you're increasing temp between 173 and 212, and dump what comes out during the climb? I think the temp range in between are where propyl alcohols boil off(rubbing and its cousins).

[EL34]

No, I leave the condenser hooked up the whole run

You collect the output in small batches as you go
Smelling and tasting as you go to figure out when the changes happen

I might divide the run up into 5 segments

The very first nasty bit is very small and you can smell when that is done.

Then comes the heads, hearts and tails

By the way, people who make fuel use a column still
I use a pot still

A column still produces very pure alcohol with no flavor
A pot still takes some of the wash flavor with it and it makes for some nice product if you mash and wash was any good

[EL34]

I am not sure what you are asking me?

[EL34]

Yes, I don't mess with that type of still
I am only interested in pot stills because they allow more flavor into the final product

I get 120 proof - 60% off what I make and lots of flavor

if I wanted to make vodka or automobile fuel I would use a different type of still

[EL34]

Those column type stills look cool though

[Bickster]

Guys,

Check out homedistiller.org if you want to get an education on this stuff.  As I realized that I had built enough amps to last a lifetime I started looking into a new hobby.  I had the Still half built when the wife figured it out.  Dang!

Bob

[EL34]

It's mean stuff

I use a hydrometer and a test jar to see what the % is on my spirits.

I double distilled a batch and it came out at 166 proof
I poured 100ml into the plastic test jar and it cracked the plastic in 5 seconds.

I went and bought a really thick glass test jar after that

[lego4040]

Im not brewing but my brother is, He has a really good sytem down and has made some really good batches. Banana bread stout, chocolate stout, Franzskaner, etc........ here is his porch tapHe uses bev grade nitro as well and he uses ice over the coil for now until he gets a better cooling method. Dry ice is a thought next. I am a bourbon man and love W.L.Wellerhttp://www.klwines.com/detail.asp?sku=630027 is a  borbon anywhere anytime. EL34 keep that brewing

[EL34]

Yay Bourbon !!!!!

Love it

[thermion]

An update...12 pounds of DME, a grain bag the size of a pillowcase, and 6 ounces of hops later I got the barleywine in the bucket. There wasn't much room in the pot even for water.
I did some reading on pot/ alembic stills, like what you got...I get it now. 
Hey lego I dig the color scheme of your big bad blue beer brewing brother, breeding banana bread booze between breaths.
Cheers!

[EL34]

Are you distilling?

[thermion]

No sir!

[Refugee]

I make my own beer but do not do ant distilling.
I modified a commercial cooler 20 years ago and it is still working.

[EL34]

Cool rig!

[Refugee]

I found a little gear pump and originally ran a "jacket around the outside of the kegs. It attracted mold and kept going black.
Later I took out the old two valve parts from the keg tops and fitted a bit of central heating pipe with a compression stop end on it. Solder types will ruin the beer and allow the cooling water to enter the keg.
Down the center of the pipe I fitted a length of brass car brake pipe to inject the cold water at the lower end.
It works well.

[EL34]

I used lead free solder on my copper parts


It soldered just fine with the proper flux

[Refugee]

I found a little gear pump and originally ran a "jacket around the outside of the kegs. It attracted mold and kept going black.
Later I took out the old two valve parts from the keg tops and fitted a bit of central heating pipe with a compression stop end on it. Solder types will ruin the beer and allow the cooling water to enter the keg.
Down the center of the pipe I fitted a length of brass car brake pipe to inject the cold water at the lower end.
It works well.

Please be careful on what solder you use.  braze or silver solder, no lead solder please, lead acetate is quite soluble, and poisonous to boot.

I know about the solder and would not touch unleaded solder either as that will also corrode and enter the beer.
I have used solder where the brake pipe comes out of the return pipe as this is outside the barrel.
The fitting in the barrel top is a compression fitting that has had the flange drilled out of the center so that it slides over the pipe and can be nipped on at the correct level. There is only a single compression stop end at the bottom.
I have kept the number of parts that are in contact with the beer to a minimum.

[Refugee]

Silver solder may well work but the compression fittings are widely used for drinking water and I also know that brass and copper do not dissolve in beer as they are used for the injector valves on barrels.

[Paul1453]

Using a pot still your hearts will not be the most potent portion of the run.  Definitely the best part, though.
Highest proof will be with the heads and will continue to decrease, not linearly, to the tails.
I started with a pot still.  You might want to take a second look at column stills.
As far as flavour, using a pot still is best.  But there is an art to it.
It completely depends on the quality of your mash. 
Also to get any corn flavour or sweetness through to the product, means you need to stop the ferment before all the sugars are converted.
I found this was inefficient, considerably more expensive, and quite messy.
Get distiller's high alcohol yeast for the ferment.  Forget using big sacks of corn or grains, and think big bags of sugar instead.
I got most of my gear and supplies from Mile High Distilling.  They make top quality stainless steel gear.
You put copper mesh in your column to remove the sulphides, and little ceramic spacer type things for the refluxing.
If you don't cool the top of your column you still get a partial pot still effect.  I usually didn't cool the top of the tower.
The final product is much cleaner with at least a partial reflux in the tower.  Definitely less headache and stomach irritating things come through.
If you want a whiskey/bourbon flavour you buy a bag of old whiskey barrel shavings.  You take your hearts and pour some shavings in and let it sit for a couple of weeks.
It pulls the brown colour, tannins, flavours/smells etc. from the wood.
My hearts runs without cooling the tower usually end up at 55% or 110 proof.
Soaked in shavings for a few weeks, it smells and looks a lot like JD.
I've had a number of people taste test mine vs. JD.  They all say it is very similar.
Now the funny part.  They almost all say the JD is stronger!  This makes me laugh.
Mine is much smoother, so smooth that people actually think JD (20-30 proof less) is stronger.
JD is rougher because they use much more of the run than I do.  It's a business for them and a pursuit of excellence for me.
Mine will also treat you much better the next day if you happen to overindulge.  No headaches, and your stomach will usually recover by mid afternoon.
Mile High has a good web site and large assortment of quality products for sale at very reasonable prices, IMO.
I have always been pleased with their products and shipping, even half way around the world to S. Korea.

Oh, and mine at 55% will burn, JD won't.  It needs to be >= 50% to burn.
Pour a little in a spoon and put a lighter to it.
In the sunshine the clear blue flame is imperceptible, but the heat generated isn't.
At night in the dark it is easy to see.  If the flame has any yellow or orange in it, you have impurities in it.
Run it through the carbon filter until you have a clear blue flame.
It also took about 24hrs to do an 8 gallon run with my 750W electric hot plate heater.
Slow and steady heat is best, and you do not want to use any open flame heater just in case you get a vapour leak.

[Paul1453]

I didn't want to attempt to connect to this web site at work, so here is a link.
http://www.milehidistilling.com/stainless-distillers-moonshine-still/
I have both of these:
http://www.milehidistilling.com/8-gallon-with-2-dual-purpose-two-piece-tower/
http://www.milehidistilling.com/3-gallon-mighty-mini-with-dual-purpose-moonshine-still/
Carbon filtering is also important, I found out, so I got this:
http://www.milehidistilling.com/stainless-steel-filter-unit/
You could age yours in barrels if you wanted.  I've used both quik swish bags with great results.
http://www.milehidistilling.com/oak-barrels-oaking-agents/
Other additives you need are enzymes, both kinds, if you want to convert starches (corn, rice, potato) to simple sugars yeast can convert.
http://www.milehidistilling.com/additives/
Corn was expensive for me to use in Korea, but we always had excess (going to go to waste unless I used it) rice in our house.
I settled on a mash made from cheap frozen fruit juice (check ingredients closely no preservatives or chemicals) 10Lbs bag of sugar, and excess rice converted with enzymes and distillers turbo yeast.  This went into new 20ltr plastic fuel containers that fit the bubbler in the vent hole and made it easy to pour in the boiler with the plastic spout.  Temps are critical during the ferment.  In winter my fuel containers sat on a heating pad and had a tape type thermometer for me to keep the temp in the proper range.  5-10 days to complete fermentation.  Convert as much sugars as possible, bubbler will give you an idea when done.  Then set in a cool dark place for particles to settle as much as possible.  2 containers fill the 8 gallon boiler, boosted with the heads and tails from previous runs.  Don't pour the sludge or dead yeast in the boiler.  Pour in the clear stuff and stop when the milky yeast particles start flowing.  I would get about 2+ltrs of heads and tails, and about 4 ltrs of hearts per run when doing 8 gallons of ferment boosted with previous heads and tails.  My costs averaged about $3 per Ltr for some mighty fine sippin whiskey.
Women prefer Vodka over Whiskey, so they will drink the white dog (no oak barrel shavings used).  They really like when you soak fruit (frozen/fresh strawberrys, raspberries, peaches in white dog).  Add some sugar or honey to sweeten this for the girls.  They really like this stuff for mixed drinks of course.  You can let them try to eat the fruit after it has soaked, but they will not be able to handle that.  They can put that soaked fruit on top of a bowl of ice cream, and love that.

This set up is an incredible value, IMO.
http://www.milehidistilling.com/8-gallon-hybrid-4-in-1-moonshine-distiller/

Cleaning stainless steel gear is much easier than all copper.
When the copper mesh deteriorates, just buy another roll.
Quick and easy to clean and operate.