trainwreck express

[cubby121]

Hey, my name is Guy. I'm new to this forum. I'm interested for a long time now, to try and build my first tube amp. The amp that really interest me is the Trainwreck Express. What i need is a parts list to try and source the parts, the "kits"are a little pricey. Thanks for any help you can give. If anyone has any advice on my build by all means express your opinion. Thanks in advance.

[HotBluePlates]

If this is your first amp, and you don't already have an existing set of tools and various resistors, caps, etc. lying around, the kit is probably the cheaper alternative.


I say that because often you can't buy everything (chassis, cabinet, transformers, caps, resistors, hardware, faceplate, etc) all in one place, and the shipping charges for multiple orders will eat up the savings of finding the cheapest source on each individual part.


Also, when you go to build your own independent list of parts needed, you will almost certainly forget something (maybe several times over) and place repeat orders, again upping the total cost of shipping to you.


Not that I've made that error myself several times... 

[tubenit]

I presume you know about the Amp Garage threads on the TrainWreck amp clones?

http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=1

http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=3

With respect, Tubenit

[eleventeen]

If it's your first build, do yourself a favor and buy the kit. Everything HBP said is entirely correct. If you've never built an amp before; unless (as he said) you have all the screws and star washers and spacers and fuseposts and cable clamps and tie wraps lying around...and have to order them in....that stuff will kill you.


When I started building, it was many years ago...and I don't say that to say I've built hundreds of amps...there was 20 years when I didn't build any. But parts were cheap and there were lots of surplus places which I loved to dig through where I could get *some* parts. Whether I ever saved a dime buying those surplus parts I could is questionable, but I liked to scrounge, and I lived near NYC where I could go scrounge on Radio Row/Canal St, where the WTC is. There were blocks and blocks of electronics surplus joints that I loved to rummage around in.


Now there's hardly any of that any more, and because of ebay, every idiot knows that pots sell for $3, not 25 cents like they used to. So there is very little advantage to sourcing your parts a la carte. Not to mention leaving some out and having to order and reorder and pay freight every time. Back then, there were many, many parts that were 25 cents and fifty cents each. Now, there's essentially no part in the amp other than a few resistors and some screws that cost that little.


The other aspect is that the odds of you successfully completing the job and having something that works, for your time and money, is 20 to 50 times better with a kit. The downside of "no kit" is that you have a $200-$300 piece of useless crud sitting on your shelf for years and years and eventually throw it out or give it away. Plus the task of getting nice big holes (or even small ones) in a sturdy piece of metal, all in a line and nicely spaced, is not trivial if you don't have decent tools. In the end, maybe you'll save $50 buying the parts one by one but if you don't end up with a working usable amp, you have a big fat zero. For $50 more, you have a clear road to something you want. If you were experienced, I'd encourage you every which way, but you're not.


Buy a kit.


Y'know what blows me away? The price of spacers/standoffs. I used to work in a factory that threw out more of them in a week that I've ever used in my entire building career. I had coffee cans of 'em. All tossed.

[HotBluePlates]

For the record, I'm not against building without a kit. My first amp build was no-kit.


But at the time I had some basic electronics training and experience. I also ran into the issue of the many unforeseen problems that happen when you take a chassis from one vendor, transformers from another, board from another, small parts from various others and hardware/power cord from the home improvement store, and ty to make all fit together happily.


What happens is a lot of, "Oh sh!t, now how do I fix that?" when things don't go together as expected. 


That doesn't mean that you will necessarily have problems, but often kits resolve problems for you that you wouldn't have thought of. Like when I mounted the transformers on my chassis and wired them up to the sockets, only to find out that now the mounting bolts for the circuit board needed to live in the space that is being occupied by the transformer mounting bolts. Or when I used Solen caps in a tweed chassis (which will sometimes work), only to find out they're so big there was no physical room to install the pilot light holder...


My last big amp project from scratch took about a year from start to finish. Most of that time was working with Visio as though it were a CAD program to work out the physical placement of parts to make sure everything went together right the first time. There was still one element of the final product that didn't fit properly, and one circuit element that shouldn't have been included because it never could work correctly in the circuit. I'm very pleased with the final product I built, but I gained a lot of respect for the prototyping and debugging phase of amp manufacturing...

[TNblueshawk]

I've only built 2 amps so I'm "new" for all intents and purposes (built a gazillion pedals so I know my way around an iron).
My first amp was a total kit from BYOC, a Champ.
But what I did on my second one was use a Marshall kit as a guide and then sourced it all myself. I think I ordered from 3 different suppliers. The point is if you don't go kit then at least find something to use as a "guide" as you will likely need it. The beauty of the guide is it had all the parts I needed save for a few. It was my crutch but I make no apologies. I actually want the amp to work in addition to feeding my DIY habit!
 
I think a Trainwreck is a lofty goal the first time out but more power to you if you try it. TAG has a wealth of info but they don't suffer fools lightly IMHO. I'd read until the cows come home if you join over there and then post a question if you want.

[SILVERGUN]

Take into consideration how many amps you think you will eventually build....
I had a feeling that my first wasn't going to be my last, so as I began to order parts, I would order 10 of a certain part or at least 2 of something I knew I would use again....and because of that I have built a stock of parts and could probably go build an amp just from stock parts today if the mood struck.

If you think you're gonna do one and be done, I would agree that the kit is the way to go because it will save you a TON of aggravation.

I started to do this at home and wanted to create a little stock there too and found this resistor kit to be helpful:
http://www.amazon.com/Joe-Knows-Electronics-Value-Resistor/dp/B006XGK05A/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1397234010&sr=8-3&keywords=resistor+kit+joe+knows

[3choplex]

I'd recommend starting with a different amp as a first build. My first was an express. It's a very finicky circuit, and takes a lot to get it really working correctly. I'd at least build a champ or something first just to have a little experience with it. But you may be more skilled than I was.

[zendragon63]

Warning: building these tube guitar amps can be addictive! A Champ is nothing more than a gateway amp--soon enough you will be jonesing for a 5E3 or an 18 W TMB and, before long, you will mainlining a Dumble clone or worse. Eek! 

I was radio amateur in the early 70's and as such just tinkered with surplus tube stuff and so I have never built from a kit BUT fully agree with HBP and eleventeen that unless you want to start a collection of parts you may never use, a kit is the way to go. An Express that sounds as intended is a more intermediate to advanced project despite the deceptive simplicity of the circuit. If you are determined to temp fate, there is at least one guy (rj guitars) over at the ampgarage that sell Trainwreck inspired kits that are pretty impressive.

Safety first. Good luck on your first build whatever you choose. Regards

dennis 

 

[mageerc]

To echo zendragon, rj on The Amp Garage forum is a good source and a fine fellow to deal with... http://www.rjguitars.net/

[andresound]

Warning: building these tube guitar amps can be addictive! A Champ is nothing more than a gateway amp--soon enough you will be jonesing for a 5E3 or an 18 W TMB and, before long, you will mainlining a Dumble clone or worse. Eek! 

I was radio amateur in the early 70's and as such just tinkered with surplus tube stuff and so I have never built from a kit BUT fully agree with HBP and eleventeen that unless you want to start a collection of parts you may never use, a kit is the way to go. An Express that sounds as intended is a more intermediate to advanced project despite the deceptive simplicity of the circuit. If you are determined to temp fate, there is at least one guy (rj guitars) over at the ampgarage that sell Trainwreck inspired kits that are pretty impressive.

Safety first. Good luck on your first build whatever you choose. Regards

dennis

I built an Express from a rj parts kit (awesome guy!!) and this  is how it turned out.


Sounds brilliant and is quite (only hiss) with everything dimed!! Installed a VVR which is a must.

[jojokeo]

Andre, are you selling this somewhere? I know I've seen it before recently but can't place where?

[sluckey]

It was just recently posted in the "Show me your proudest builds" thread.

[andresound]

Hi Jojokeo,
No DEFINETLY NEVER selling this!! Just a proud farther showing off his new girl! Till death do us part.
Have joined a few forums, so you might have seen a post somewhere (I think I double posted by mistake here somewhere  ).
Anyway, great forum and LOTS of experience haging around here. This wont be my last attempt at amp building.

[jojokeo]

Very cool and nice build! I have a friend with a clone by Carl's custom amps set-up to come visit me soon that said on his "things were fine then started the squeal like almost a feedback problem but not it screams a piercing tone, it was not like this when he first got it." It seems obvious to be an oscillation issue and I was even thinking the OT primaries were reversed intially (but then why would it work fine in the first place then do this?). Does anything stick on as a common problem assiciated with these amps?

[zendragon63]

Andresound--nice build!

Hey jojo, having built several of these in various forms, 90+% of the headaches with these 'wrecks' style amps are layout and wire routing issues--any deviation from the traditional wreck layout invites trouble but can be fixed. 9% are solder joints/connections that look better than they really are. The last 1% is a demonic force so powerful that will likely require a full exorcism. Regards

dennis

[VMS]

Here Björn Juhl of BJF pedals talks about trainwreck amp.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgyNVSZyqxc

[jojokeo]

Hey jojo, having built several of these in various forms, 90+% of the headaches with these 'wrecks' style amps are layout and wire routing issues--any deviation from the traditional wreck layout invites trouble but can be fixed. 9% are solder joints/connections that look better than they really are. The last 1% is a demonic force so powerful that will likely require a full exorcism. Regards

Thanks Dennis, I was thinking exactly along those lines myself along with possible tranny placements, grounding, etc...but I have yet to see the innerds & construction yet. Also from VMS' video below Bjorn discusses the speaker(s) interaction w/ the circuit and feedback w/in the amp's circuit relationship. My friend has his installed in or connected to a Bluesbreaker cab. He said he only moved the amp to his studio BUT that he also changed the speakers! He said he "had new series greens but put 77 black backs in it".

VMS - thanks, that was interesting info. I respect Bjorn & his pedals but don't know a lot about him related to amplifier experience. Several things I agree with and some I don't. Funny about making a vacuum cleaner into a distortion box. But after about 2 and 3 gain stages (he said "tubes") and the signal/amp staying clean??? And the placement of the tone stack (which is discussed on the Tone Loss thread currently) No, that's not true IMHO but what do I know? In fact a high gain/distortion mod I do on blackface & silverface amps is to simply re-place the tone stack after the 2nd stage on the Normal channel and makes the amp have two distinct voices.

There's other stuff to comment on but it's not necessary. That camera guy's focusing issues is distracting from listening to Bjorn, and when he says the word impedance it sounded more like "impotence" which I find funny yet also sort of an odd but true synonym for the word in thinking about describing it and understanding it's behavior in a circuit.

[andresound]

Thanks for the kind words guys  . A lot of effort and attention to details went into this build. The MOST important aspect would be lead dress (as mentioned by zendragon63). The second most important aspect has to be tube choice. I have been through 30 odd NOS tubes and MANY hours later have found what sounds good to me. I have had NO oscillation issues (mainly microphonic issues). The main problem I have is;
1. This is a "bright" amp by nature.
2. Extreemly Hi gain!!
3. The more she "burns in" the better and less bright she sounds.
4. SO tube choice keeps evolving as things settle down.

Tube at present ;
v1= NOS Phillips Hamburg 1959, 45 degree ring halo
v2 and v3 = NOS Mullard
Power tubes = NOS Philips (Mullard) XF2 or NOS Siemens XF3

No need for a tube tester for testing noise or microphonics!! Just plug into v1 and dime the amp, and you will have no doubt 
I have a few Mullard MC1, square getter types to still try in v2 or v3 (too microphonic for v1  ). Also have 2 NOS NIB Telefunken Long smooth plates to try in PI.

[VMS]

VMS - thanks, that was interesting info. I respect Bjorn & his pedals but don't know a lot about him related to amplifier experience. Several things I agree with and some I don't. Funny about making a vacuum cleaner into a distortion box. But after about 2 and 3 gain stages (he said "tubes") and the signal/amp staying clean??? And the placement of the tone stack (which is discussed on the Tone Loss thread currently) No, that's not true IMHO but what do I know? In fact a high gain/distortion mod I do on blackface & silverface amps is to simply re-place the tone stack after the 2nd stage on the Normal channel and makes the amp have two distinct voices.

Bjorn is a designer of Mad Professor amps. I posted a link to an article about him and his designs on the Effects-side of this forum.

I agree with you jojo about the "clean" part but then again in guitar amps the term "clean" is pretty subjective.


-v