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Hoffman Amps Forum image Author Topic: Has anyone built a Plexi with a PPIMV and Dumbleator type fx loop  (Read 9106 times)

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Offline Mike_J

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I was wondering if anyone has a Plexi build with a PPIMV and Dumbleator type fx loop.  Of course this would also apply to a 5f6a Bassman clone as well.  I don't know how well it would work.  The Dumbleator works well in the Dumble Overdrive Special amps because they get their overdrive in the preamp before the PI.  Therefore the Dumbleator in the fx loop makes a real good master volume control for those amps. 

If I remember what I read years ago someone mentioned that the Plexi gets a lot of its overdriven tone from the PI section.  If so then the PPIMV would seem to be a more effective master volume control for it I would think.

I am not sure a Plexi clone could be called a Plexi clone with an fx loop in it.  Just doesn't seem right for some reason.  But then again maybe Marshall would have used them in 1968 if they existed at the time.  So I guess some thought should go into whether or not it would be a good addition to the amp.

Offline tubenit

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Re: Has anyone built a Plexi with a PPIMV and Dumbleator type fx loop
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2014, 05:22:33 am »
I built this and it's headed that direction.  It has gotten many positive comments on the tone by a variety of guitarists using it and by listeners.
Sort of Marshallish topology but with different values.  It's used fairly regularly with a band.

FX & PPIMV work well in it.  I personally don't care for the PPIMV turned down below "6"; however, the PPIMV is quite useful.

It's used in a "zero volume" stage setting but sounds fantastic thru an Emminence Cannabis Rex.

With respect, Tubenit
« Last Edit: April 12, 2014, 05:49:41 am by tubenit »

Offline tubenit

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Re: Has anyone built a Plexi with a PPIMV and Dumbleator type fx loop
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2014, 06:44:07 am »
OK, just for fun .......... here is an idea.

Psuedo Plexi with PPIMV and FX.   

It's cathode biased.   Look in the ARCHIVES under master volume if you want a fixed biased PPIMV approach.  post #15
http://el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=3496.0

It has a GZ34, but you could plug in one of Hoffman's solid state rectifiers.  I like the tube rectifier because I can change voltages such as using a 5Y3GT with 6V6's if one wanted. 

In fact, IF you used a 275-0-275 PT, then you could use 6K6's for 7 watts with a 5Y3 (around 305v on plates), a 5V4 with 6V6 for 325v on plates  ............. or a solid state plug in for around 380v on 6L6 plates. Or a GZ34 with 350v on plates.

It's got a paralleled V1.  You can try the 100k plate resistor or go to a 56k or 68k there.  IF you want a larger cathode cap then simply parallel one using a SPST mini-toggle.  Such as a 25uf cap paralleled with 4.7uf.

IF you wanted EL34's cathode biased, then look at this Matchless schematic to see how to do that:  http://el34world.com/charts/Schematics/files/matchless/matchless_clubman.pdf

With respect, Tubenit
« Last Edit: April 12, 2014, 07:08:45 am by tubenit »

Offline tubenit

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Re: Has anyone built a Plexi with a PPIMV and Dumbleator type fx loop
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2014, 07:02:48 am »
OR ...............................  :icon_biggrin: :icon_biggrin:

For a super touch sensitive amp with sweet harmonics,  maybe use a 5879 pentode as V1. This is sort of a HoSo56/Plexi hybrid.  I did build something very similar to this without the PPIMV.  I liked it.  Very very touch sensitive to play. I think I used 1.2k/39k in the LTPI instead.

With respect, Tubenit
« Last Edit: April 12, 2014, 07:04:58 am by tubenit »

Offline Mike_J

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Re: Has anyone built a Plexi with a PPIMV and Dumbleator type fx loop
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2014, 07:21:20 am »
Thanks tubenit

I have admired your creativity for a long time.  Your ideas have been an inspiration to me and I am sure for many others. 

I have decided to make sluckeys Plexi/800 amp my next project.  I was thinking of all the changes I could do to it but I think to start with I am going to build it the way sluckeys layout shows it.  The only exception is I will probably add a 1 watt 10K trimmer to the 82K and 100K resistors feeding the PI to try to squeeze just a little more third order harmonics out of the amp.  I like what that has done to some of my other amps.

I have a stand alone Dumbleator clone I made.  I am going to have a large chassis made for this project so I can expand to my hearts content.  Later if I decide to put an fx loop in I will be able to do so.  If I don't like it I will just take it back out.  Same for a PPIMV.  My thought was to use a relay to switch between the 800 MV when playing in 800 mode and a PPIMV when in Plexi mode to tone the volume some.  May want the PPIMV for both modes.  Wouldn't need a relay then.  I will leave room in my chassis to be able to do either option if I think it might be worth the effort when I get to that point.

Nice to know it has been tried.  Not at all surprised to see that you were involved in it.

Thanks
Mike

Offline Mike_J

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Re: Has anyone built a Plexi with a PPIMV and Dumbleator type fx loop
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2014, 07:35:47 am »
OR ...............................  :icon_biggrin: :icon_biggrin:

For a super touch sensitive amp with sweet harmonics,  maybe use a 5879 pentode as V1. This is sort of a HoSo56/Plexi hybrid.  I did build something very similar to this without the PPIMV.  I liked it.  Very very touch sensitive to play. I think I used 1.2k/39k in the LTPI instead.

With respect, Tubenit

My build after this one will probably be some version of the Ceriatone DZ30 layout.  I have wanted to build your TOS and your Tweed Bluesmeister.  Must have listened to your recording with each amp 100 times.  Love the tone. 

Just returning from a year or so in Dumbleland.  I learned a lot from it and have made three amps I am proud of from the journey there.  I have always wanted to make a Plexi and an 800 because so many of my favorite songs were played using those amps.  (I was born in 1957 for a point of reference)

The Ceriatone DZ30 has a dedicated channel for an EF86.  If I remember correctly the HoSo had an EF86 in it but the tubes can be easily damaged.  Might not be remembering right.  Do you have similar results tonally with the 5879 and have you noticed if it is as prone to being damaged.

I sure appreciate the suggestion because it very well may be the path I take because it could be a combination of both of the next two amps I want to make in one build.

Thanks
Mike

Offline tubenit

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Re: Has anyone built a Plexi with a PPIMV and Dumbleator type fx loop
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2014, 08:06:27 am »
You've built some great amps!  Do you have a different name on the AmpGarage?

The HoSo56 was Geezer's genius idea. The original and all the versions I've built have all had 5879 pentodes.  I think some people have tried the EF86, but I never had.  I always hear such mixed reviews of the EF86 and microphonic issues.

If you have a D'Lator, you can just use that with your Marshallish build I think with no issues that I would be aware of?

With respect, Tubenit

Offline Mike_J

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Re: Has anyone built a Plexi with a PPIMV and Dumbleator type fx loop
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2014, 08:52:05 am »
tubenit

I just looked at your schematic for the Psuedo HoSo Plexi & FX & PPIMV.  Does the 5879 clean up pretty well.  If not maybe an option would be to make a second channel with a 12AX7 for cleans and then like you have it for overdriven sound.  You could use a relay and put it on a footswitch. 

Correct me if I am wrong but it looks like you are getting your gain from V1, V2 powers your tone circuit, V3 is for fx recovery and V4 is for the PI.  The circuit is part Plexi (for example the 33K slope resistor) and part earlier Marshall (the GZ34 rectifier and the 5881s).  It is cathode biased not fixed biased.  You like to use slightly less B+ than what is standard.  I notice you commonly use 275-0-275 and on this amp you are using 300-0-300 where a 320-0-320 would commonly be used for an amp during that era.  I think it is for the same reason I am having the equivalence of a 290-0-290 tap added to my Plexi/800 transformer.  Perhaps that is the answer to my 5f6a dilemma (see below). 

I hold the 5881s partly to blame for why my 5f6a Bassman build sounds exactly like my Fender 59 Bassman LTD.  It was my first build and was going to be the best sounding amp ever made but all I seem to be able to do is get it to sound exactly like my 59 Bassman LTD.  No matter what OT or caps I use it just doesn't seem to sound any better than my 59 Bassman LTD.  Now that is not necessarily a bad thing because it sounds pretty good but it is not the best amp ever made which frustrates me to this day.  So having to have something to blame it on I blamed it on the 5881 power tubes.  I hope that makes sense to someone other than me.

To make a long story short have you considered four EL34s with a solid state rectifier.  The power supply would need to be beefed up, I would make it fixed biased but otherwise I like it.

I haven't really given up on some day making my 5f6a Bassman the best amp ever made.  I am convinced I can somehow get that screaming Marshall tone at a low volume level.  I often times feel like Don Quixote but instead of looking for windmills to slay I am on a quest for the elusive perfect tone.  I doubt that I am alone on this forum in that regard.

Thanks
Mike


Offline Mike_J

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Re: Has anyone built a Plexi with a PPIMV and Dumbleator type fx loop
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2014, 09:23:08 am »
You've built some great amps!  Do you have a different name on the AmpGarage?

The HoSo56 was Geezer's genius idea. The original and all the versions I've built have all had 5879 pentodes.  I think some people have tried the EF86, but I never had.  I always hear such mixed reviews of the EF86 and microphonic issues.

If you have a D'Lator, you can just use that with your Marshallish build I think with no issues that I would be aware of?

With respect, Tubenit

What I have heard about the EF86 is you are asking for trouble if you put it in a combo amp.  It needs to be isolated from the speakers or it will go microphonic in no time.

I have never posted on the Amp Garage site.  Mainly because they ask for pictures and my 35 mm Canon AE1 proudly proclaims that it supports the 1980 Olympics on its lens cap.  They also like sound which I haven't figured out yet either.  My cell phone is a Nokia that was made way before they ever thought of the flip phone.  However, I have learned that it can fall into as many as eight pieces when I accidently drop it and be returned to use in just seconds. I fear I am just not quite where I hope to be soon.  I think my guitar playing skills are adequate so it has nothing to do with my playing it is just my ignorance when it comes to modern equipment that has kept me from sharing my limited knowledge.

Another thing that has kept me from sharing my experiences and knowledge is an experience I had here probably eight years ago.  I was making a Revibe Unit to use with my 5f6a Bassman in search of the best tone ever.  Well it hummed.  Tore T who designed the circuit that combined the reverb with the vibrato tried his hardest to help me but it was just hopeless.  I tortured the poor man with my ignorance and he was so nice and patient.  It turned out to be a bad solder joint on one of the grounds that I found while doing a continuity test maybe a month after I finished posting (the value was much higher than it should have been which is how I found the problem),  I felt so bad for torturing the poor man with my ignorance that I have stayed off forums although the Revibe isn't just quiet, it makes no noise at all that I can hear. 

I have asked a few questions through PMs but that is it.  However, I enjoy building amps and have made most of the mistakes that I hear people ask for help about so it is probably a good idea for me to post more.  What I know I need to learn is how to take pictures and post them on the internet.  How to draw schematics and layout diagrams.  How to record sound and post it on the internet.  These are all things on my list of things to learn for this year. 

I don't think I am completely hopeless.  My computer has this annoying camera that every once in a while comes on for no good reason and shows me sitting in front of my computer.  It also has a microphone so I probably have some of the equipment I need for rudimentary recording.  I also make my own nameplates, faceplates and back plates using the Inkscape vector graphics software so I am probably not completely hopeless when it comes to my potential for learning to create schematics and layout diagrams.

Sorry for the long windedness but that is my story.

Thanks
Mike

Offline HotBluePlates

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Re: Has anyone built a Plexi with a PPIMV and Dumbleator type fx loop
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2014, 09:43:44 am »
Thanks tubenit

I have admired your creativity for a long time.  Your ideas have been an inspiration to me and I am sure for many others.

Indeed! Tubenit is a dynamo when it comes to researching, experimenting and tweaking new amp ideas. His energetic efforts at coming up with new amps are quite amazing.

I hold the 5881s partly to blame for why my 5f6a Bassman build sounds exactly like my Fender 59 Bassman LTD.  It was my first build and was going to be the best sounding amp ever made but all I seem to be able to do is get it to sound exactly like my 59 Bassman LTD.  No matter what OT or caps I use it just doesn't seem to sound any better than my 59 Bassman LTD.

But they're both the same amp circuit, are they not?

10 years ago on this forum, I used to say to people that after trying super-expensive audiophile tweaker caps that I came to the conclusion that all the exotic parts gave a disproportionately small tone change for their cost. While I can hear the difference between different cap types, I concluded that a cap value change had much more impact than a cap type change.

To that end, I think your experience shows that if you keep the same amp circuit (even with minor changes and upgraded parts) then you get the same basic sound. It takes a changed amp topology to get a significantly different sound.

Another thing that has kept me from sharing my experiences and knowledge is an experience I had here probably eight years ago.  I was making a Revibe Unit ...  Tore T ... tried his hardest to help me but it was just hopeless.  ...  I felt so bad for torturing the poor man with my ignorance that I have stayed off forums although the Revibe isn't just quiet, it makes no noise at all that I can hear. ...

We all start at zero. I have been on this forum in its various forms since maybe 2002-2003 (that's not what my profile says because we've been through at least 3 different forum engines, much less cosmetic changes to the forum look since I arrived). I started just above zero in my knowledge, and talking with folks here has helped me learn a great deal.

Though I might have felt embarrassed at times to be corrected when I posted what I thought was correct (which turned out to be wrong), I'm glad I did it because others shared their knowledge with me and that helped me grow. There are already enough barriers to learning with the misinformation that's out there that you don't want to exclude yourself from participating to get all the benefit you can.

Hell, how OT's and the output stage really woks (and how simple it is to design) just finally clicked with me in the last couple years after a very long time looking at this stuff. So there's hope for everyone!  :l2:
« Last Edit: April 12, 2014, 10:07:43 am by HotBluePlates »

Offline tubenit

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Re: Has anyone built a Plexi with a PPIMV and Dumbleator type fx loop
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2014, 10:02:40 am »
Quote
have you considered four EL34s with a solid state rectifier.  The power supply would need to be beefed up, I would make it fixed biased but otherwise I like it.

No, I haven't.  I have 3 amps.  Two are 14 watts and one is 23 watts.  I am really very happy with those & get the type of sustain and "blooming" that I like at those wattages.  Plus, I have something of a hearing loss in the upper frequencies and want to preserve the hearing I have left.  ( I'm older than you are.)

I hope you will feel free to post on this forum. You obviously are an experienced builder and have great expertise to have built what you have. Posting pictures or music is truly quite easy. We'd be happy to give you a simple tutorial to do that if you ever wish to.  OR, just PM me and I will help out with that. 

IF you have not already downloaded the free ExpressSCH program, I would encourage you to do so.  It will allow you to open 100's of editable schematics and layouts.  It's super intuitive and very easy to use. 

Thanks for participating on the forum!  Guys like HotBluePlates, Sluckey, PRR and many many others make it a great place to be.

With respect, Tubenit

Offline Mike_J

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Re: Has anyone built a Plexi with a PPIMV and Dumbleator type fx loop
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2014, 10:07:20 am »
HotBluePlates

Very wise words.  As much as I hate to admit it yes the parts are not anywhere near as important as the circuit.  If you look at some of the parts in Dumble's amps that are now selling for $70,000 you would be shocked.  Definitely not a lot of HiFi in an original Dumble build.  Some people say that Dumble would take a long time to build his amps because he was looking for seasoned iron.  I have my doubts.  I have thought for a while now that he used seasoned iron because he could get the parts cheaper by parting out old Fender Twin/Twin Reverb amps versus buying new.  Certainly most of the parts he used in his amps while good quality are nothing real special.  Where I do think Dumble is special is how he ran his wiring.  He could take the harshness out of his overdrive by running his wiring a certain way.  That I do admire.

Thanks
Mike

Offline Mike_J

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Re: Has anyone built a Plexi with a PPIMV and Dumbleator type fx loop
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2014, 10:17:55 am »
tubenit

I have rethought my bias against 5881s and have also decided to make my version of your amp cathode biased.  In fact I have decided my amp, after the sluckey build, will definitely be this amp exactly as you have drawn it.

The amp I use by far the most is my 5e3 Deluxe.  It is cathode biased of course so I probably have a natural affinity to the tone that cathode bias produces that I should explore further by making my copy of your amp cathode biased too.

Thanks
Mike


Offline Mike_J

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Re: Has anyone built a Plexi with a PPIMV and Dumbleator type fx loop
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2014, 10:28:20 am »
tubenit

And thanks for the heads-up concerning the ExpressSCH program.  I am going to try to get started on using that today.

Thanks
Mike

EDIT:

Here is the program:  http://www.expresspcb.com/expresspcbhtm/Free_schematic_software.htm

Here are some Libraries of SCH schematics:

http://el34world.com/Forum/index.php?board=12.0
http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17449               Dumblish
http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17500               D-inspired
http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21288               Trainwreckish
http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20127               Fenderish
http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20126               Marshallish
http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20108               Voxey


« Last Edit: April 12, 2014, 12:59:58 pm by tubenit »

Offline HotBluePlates

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Re: Has anyone built a Plexi with a PPIMV and Dumbleator type fx loop
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2014, 10:40:11 am »
Some people say that Dumble would take a long time to build his amps because he was looking for seasoned iron.  I have my doubts. 


I've never met the man, so I can only infer what he's like from the anecdotes of others. I also can't be certain how much is true, as it's all been re-repeated for so long.


The stories are there of demanding down payments for amps that don't get delivered for years. Yet his gift seemed to be to tweak and shape an amp for a specific customer. This sounds to me like a very smart person who is a talented amp builder but has strange personality quirks. Getting caught up in the voodoo (which may in part have been offered to justify the long waiting times) is probably descending into another's eccentricities.


Dave Funk wrote in his book that amp designing/building is an empirical science. That is, there is no absolute formula, everything is about balance. I think celebrated builders like Dumble and Ken Fischer took largely ordinary parts and understood how to jigger the balance of all parts to get a superior result.


I don't see this as much different than what Tubenit does with what look like wacky circuit elements; when he tries something new, I think he often find he has to rebalance other parts of the amp to work in concert with the new element.


The 1960 Gibson catalog has a list price of $265 for the Les Paul Standard ($2100 in today's money). The production totals for Les Paul Standards between 1958-1960 are low enough (around 1400-1800, I think) that others suggested the switch to the SG body shape was because the sunburst Standard wasn't selling. Of course, now they're crazy expensive due to collectors.


Dumbles and Trainwrecks sell for 5-to-6 figures due to limited supply and collectibility. They're not inherently worth that much (though they were expensive new because of the individual attention given to each customer). As you mentioned, when you look in a Trainwreck or Dumble, thee don't seem to be any magic-tweak parts inside. I am of the opinion that too often we turn to "magic parts" when we're trying to improve an amp's performance and we've exhausted our knowledge of the inner functioning of the circuit. Maybe we should strip away the magic...


I've got a Tele that, for the second time, I've taken a wood rasp to in order to carve the armrest and ribcage relieving found on a Strat. Basically, I'm doing something like Jeff Beck's old Esquire. I seemed like a big act of courage to do something that drastic to the guitar the first time. But I figured I built the thing, so I shouldn't be afraid to alter it how I see fit. And the new curves make the guitar much more comfortable to play. Again, sometimes we have to not be so precious about our musical tools.


Sorry for the extended thread-hijack.  :hijack1:

Offline HotBluePlates

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Re: Has anyone built a Plexi with a PPIMV and Dumbleator type fx loop
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2014, 10:42:26 am »
I have rethought my bias against 5881s and have also decided to make my version of your amp cathode biased. 


Just keep in mind that 6L6's and 5881's have a particular sonic quality (due to the shape of their curves), while pentodes (EL34's, EL84's, 6K6's) have a different sonic quality when distorted. It's legitimate to select an output tube on this basis if you know/think one will give you the result you're seeking.

Offline Mike_J

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Re: Has anyone built a Plexi with a PPIMV and Dumbleator type fx loop
« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2014, 11:35:52 am »
Thanks HotBluePlates

Now I feel like my wife at a restaurant.  Can't make up my mind to save my life.  You are right.  I am going to use EL34s instead because I like the way an EL34 sounds much better than the way a 5881 sounds.  Probably will start out cathode biased though and if I don't like it modify it until I do.

Thanks
Mike

Offline Mike_J

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Re: Has anyone built a Plexi with a PPIMV and Dumbleator type fx loop
« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2014, 01:41:40 pm »
tubenit
 
I took a closer look at the D'Mars ODS & FX schematic and noticed a 12V Zener diode and an N-channel mosfet that is part of your clean channel and overdrive channel.  I presume it is a solid state gain stage.  The Dumble's each have a seperate input to an N-channel JFET (NTE452) circuit which is a gain booster at the front of the amp.  They are effective in some cases to boost single coil pickups for a little better overdrive although humbuckers into the normal channel work better in the case of my #124 amp.   If this is doing the same thing it is doing so in a lot fewer parts.  How does the gain boost compare to what you would get from 1/2 of a 12AX7?

By the way I have loaded the ExpressSCH software and have started to tinker with it.  I would like advise on opening the editable schematics on file.  I haven't run into that yet.

Thanks
Mike

Offline tubenit

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Re: Has anyone built a Plexi with a PPIMV and Dumbleator type fx loop
« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2014, 05:04:08 pm »
Quote
noticed a 12V Zener diode and an N-channel mosfet that is part of your clean channel and overdrive channel.  I presume it is a solid state gain stage.

The mosfet in a cathode follower position sounds just the same to me as a 12A_7 triode.  It does not harm the tube tone in the cathode follower position.   You can google and read "mosfet follies" for more info.

Once you download ExpressSCH,  just click on a SCH schematic or layout and it will open just fine.

with respect, Tubenit

Offline Mike_J

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Re: Has anyone built a Plexi with a PPIMV and Dumbleator type fx loop
« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2014, 10:13:57 am »
Quote
noticed a 12V Zener diode and an N-channel mosfet that is part of your clean channel and overdrive channel.  I presume it is a solid state gain stage.

The mosfet in a cathode follower position sounds just the same to me as a 12A_7 triode.  It does not harm the tube tone in the cathode follower position.   You can google and read "mosfet follies" for more info.

Once you download ExpressSCH,  just click on a SCH schematic or layout and it will open just fine.

with respect, Tubenit

tubenit

Your N-Channel Mosfet circuitry in your D'Mars ODS & fx amp may be the solution to a concern I have had with my ODS 100 - HRM amp.  While the amp sounds good as is I think it could sound better if the overdrive channel had the benefit of the Mosfet.  Currently both the clean channel tone stack and HRM overdrive tone stacks are both fed from the plate of one triode of  a 12AX7.  The HRM has a three 12AX7 tube preamp.  Tube one is used for the clean channel, tube two for the overdrive channel and tube three is the PI tube.  The 2A triode is used for the overdrive circuitry and 2B is wired off the plate like a blackfaced Fender would be.  This makes little sense to me in an amp that is supposed to be a hot rod Marshall.
 
Little details like that bother me more than they should especially when the amp already sounds really good.  The Marshall amp this was supposedly hot rodding uses two triodes for the tone stack and is fed from the cathode of the tube.  I know enough to know that the single triode off the plate tone is much cleaner than the two triode off the cathode tone which tends to be crunchy or Marshally for use of a better words.

I wanted to try the standard Plexi tone stack but the amp has no room for another tube and I only needed one more triode anyway.  Your comment that "the mosfet in a cathode follower position sounds just the same to me as a 12A_7 triode.  It does not harm the tube tone in the cathode follower position" makes me think it is worth trying in the HRM in an attempt to make the overdrive more Marshally.  What I need is a design that uses one triode and the Mosfet to emulate the two triode tone stack in the Plexi of 5f6a bassman.

I may need some help from you to figure this out though if you don't mind.  I would also be appreciative of any suggestions anyone else might have.

Thanks
Mike

Offline Mike_J

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Re: Has anyone built a Plexi with a PPIMV and Dumbleator type fx loop
« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2014, 01:27:34 pm »
tubenit

I spent a few minutes looking at your D'Mars ODS & fx schematic and I don't think it is very far from what I need right now.  I noticed these differences as compared to the Plexi tone tube:

1.  I have read about your use of the caps from the plate to the cathode (in this case 250p on your schematic).  If I remember correctly they are a tuning aide to tame the overdrive channel.  I think I would start with no cap and if it sounds like I might need one I can try different cap values until the overdrive is tamed.  I have a box with caps in it and a dial that makes it easier to do that.
2.  The resistor from VA6 to the drain is 150K on your schematic instead of 100K V2-1 to V2-6 on the Plexi schematic.
3.  The  source resistor to ground on your schematic is 120K instead of 100K V2-8 to ground on the Plexi schematic.
4.  You have a 220R/1W resistor from VA6 to the gate versus a straight wire on the Plexi schematic from V2-1 to V2-7.
5.  You have a 12V Zener diode going from the source to the gate.  The Plexi schematic has no Zener diode.
I think if I understood why you made those changes and especially why you used the Zener diode and the 220R/1W resistor I could probably make a decent attempt at making the change to my HRM.

Thanks
Mike

Offline tubenit

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Re: Has anyone built a Plexi with a PPIMV and Dumbleator type fx loop
« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2014, 02:34:54 pm »
Quote
I think if I understood why you made those changes and especially why you used the Zener diode and the 220R/1W resistor I could probably make a decent attempt at making the change to my HRM.

Most of my wandering "off course" from what is typical values is NOT great insight or electrical engineering knowledge.  Far more a mixture of
a wild guess as to what I might like or what I've experienced in the past that I liked.  Some have simply been useful accidents.

I've done lots and lots and lots of just experimenting to hear how something sounds with little regard to the science, electronics or math behind it.  The result of that is I maybe use/keep one out of five mod attempts.  I build stuff with the idea of getting a foundational platform to experiment from until I tweak it to my personal liking.  HotBluePlates (my amp building mentor) taught me enough basics to usually stay out of too much trouble.
 :icon_biggrin:

Regarding the zener and 220R/1W,  that is simply IF you are using the mosfet.  Not needed for a 12A_7 triode.

With respect, Tubenit

Offline Mike_J

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Re: Has anyone built a Plexi with a PPIMV and Dumbleator type fx loop
« Reply #22 on: April 14, 2014, 07:57:20 am »
Quote
I think if I understood why you made those changes and especially why you used the Zener diode and the 220R/1W resistor I could probably make a decent attempt at making the change to my HRM.

Most of my wandering "off course" from what is typical values is NOT great insight or electrical engineering knowledge.  Far more a mixture of
a wild guess as to what I might like or what I've experienced in the past that I liked.  Some have simply been useful accidents.

I've done lots and lots and lots of just experimenting to hear how something sounds with little regard to the science, electronics or math behind it.  The result of that is I maybe use/keep one out of five mod attempts.  I build stuff with the idea of getting a foundational platform to experiment from until I tweak it to my personal liking.  HotBluePlates (my amp building mentor) taught me enough basics to usually stay out of too much trouble.
 :icon_biggrin:

Regarding the zener and 220R/1W,  that is simply IF you are using the mosfet.  Not needed for a 12A_7 triode.

With respect, Tubenit

Thanks tubenit

I will keep the values you have used for your D'Mars project in mind when adding this to my HRM.  I may be using them.  I have found if you do the same thing that someone else has used with good results you too will get good results.

I have two questions.  First, what is the zener used for and two I will buy the mosfet that Doug sells and will bolt it to my aluminum chassis.  Is there a need for a heat sink for any of this?

Thanks
Mike

Offline tubenit

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Re: Has anyone built a Plexi with a PPIMV and Dumbleator type fx loop
« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2014, 11:59:16 am »
Quote
First, what is the zener used for and two I will buy the mosfet that Doug sells and will bolt it to my aluminum chassis.  Is there a need for a heat sink for any of this?

Zener is used to control voltages (spikes I think?).  No mosfet doesn't need to be heat sinked.  Look at the D'Mars info in the SCH Library.  There is a picture of the layout board with mosfet in turrets.

You can start with the values I used, but I would advise to be prepared to tweak and mod to taste.

With respect, Tubenit

 


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