Boutique Delux Reverb Copy Distortion at certain volumes & certain notes

[TerryD]

I bought a "Stinger" Perfect Delux Reverb copy about four years ago for a real good deal and have to get it ready for a friend to play.  It is a point to point exact copy except with midrange, which is always handy.  I think I heard that the guy who made these is or was in prison.  I bought this from a guy in California and it's one of the prototypes.  I got it much much cheaper than if I bought a 60's Delux.
 
In any case.
Now that I have to get some volume out of it, I find it distorting with the lower notes above a certain level.  More so with chords.  It's terrible.  I ran it through another cabinet and same thing.  what should I look for and what can I do?  I don't think it was like this before.
 
Thanks, Terry

[tubenit]

Check voltages.

Check tubes.

Look for bad solder joints.

How old are the filter caps?

IF you have a mid pot, ....... sometimes if those are cranked too high, it can get a fizzy/distorted tone?

IF all of that is good,  maybe change coupling caps between LTPI and power tubes from .1 to .047?

With respect, Tubenit

[jim]

Does it use a 5U4 rectifier tube? If so change to 5AR4 and rebias for more headroom.  A low bias current makes an anemic gritty sound that is ugly.   Do both channels sound the same?  You could also swap in a 5751 and compare to the other. Like tubenit said...try some new power tubes and E-caps.  I like JJ 6V6S for the Fender sound. Otherwise you need to dig into it, comparing to the schematic and check solder joints and caps.  Jim

[eleventeen]

Excellent idea to down-gain a stage or two from 12AX7 > 5751 or 12AX7 > 12AY7 and quite painless. Just to see how the amp reacts. For zero dollars (assuming you have no extra tubes lying around) you could even try swapping the 12AT7 (the middle one, the reverb driver, not the one next to the 6V6's) with V2 (assuming you use the reverb channel as the normal "thing" you play through) That should chop your preamp gain enough to make a difference. Remember to get the 12AX7 out of the reverb driver position when you are done. It will likely give more reverb than is desirable and that tube [position] runs very hot.

[HotBluePlates]

I bought a "Stinger" Perfect Delux Reverb copy ...
Now that I have to get some volume out of it, I find it distorting with the lower notes above a certain level.  ...

What is that "certain level"? A Deluxe Reverb only gets so loud before it distorts (and it will get a "fuzzy clean" before it's obviously distorted). Are you sure you don't just have it turned up beyond its clean output power?


For example, by the time a Deluxe Reverb is making enough volume output to hang with a drummer in a small-club setting, it will distort. Which is why a lot of players in the Nashville bars liked using the Deluxe Reverb: You could use a single-coil guitar, turn it up to have gig volume and get good distortion without killing folks in the front row.


The above assumes a band which plays with dynamics, meaning the rhythm guitar player knows how to back off his loudness when the lead player needs his lines out front. I can't overstate the importance of a group of players who know how to not step on each other in a performance.


By comparison, my Princeton Reverb used in a band setting cannot be heard with a drummer/band even all the way up loud enough to be a soloing amp... at least not without mic'ing the amp into the PA. Distorted rhythm guitar, no problem, but not loud enough to punch through the band for a solo.


At least, that was my experience taking a number of amps to blues jams: Princeton couldn't cut it, Super Reverb on 6-7 was perfect as long as I work my guitar's volume or laid back when not playing lead, Tonemaster amp bigger than really called for but could be clean or dirty at any usable volume (but that was 100w and a beast to transport for a non-paid fun gig).

[Willabe]

My BFSR would bury my BFPR and the blues guys I played for their BFTR would bury my SR. They each had their own amount of muscle or fullness depth(?) that was clearly heard and felt IMO.   

The above assumes a band which plays with dynamics, meaning the rhythm guitar player knows how to back off his loudness when the lead player needs his lines out front. I can't overstate the importance of a group of players who know how to not step on each other in a performance.

Amen, amen and amen!

The best players AND singers that I've ever heard in person and heard recorded (and not just guitar players but all instruments,
including percussion players) all had great dynamics. It took me a long time to develop that part of my playing skills and I'm still working on it.     


          Brad      

[TerryD]

This is NOT my amp week!  Usually I luck out.  Not today.  I was checking the amp.  All I did was tighten up some pins.  I turned it on and the light did not come on.  Next I turned it on again and the light is on but the transformer is smoking. The big black expensive one.  This is not really an old amp probably from the 90s.  Can something else screw up the transformer?  Could it be the transformer all along?  Thanks, Terry

[HotBluePlates]

...  I was checking the amp.  All I did was tighten up some pins.  ... the transformer is smoking. The big black expensive one. 

Tightening pins is the only thing you touched inside the amp? No changed tubes, caps, no other tinkering?


If this is the first time you turned it on, perhaps the transformer or tubes were bad. If tubes were swapped, maybe the output tubes were re-installed in the wrong position (see the recent thread with mis-marked pin numbers), especially if the guide pin was broken off.


Other things could be wrong, but a functioning amp usually doesn't go south without some help. Could it have been broken when you got it (if recently)?

[TerryD]

Thank you Thank you Thank you      I somehow managed to smusch the 6v6 back in wrong.  Hope I didn't kill the transformer.  It didn't smoke too long.

[HotBluePlates]

Fire it up with the lamp limiter and take some readings. Maybe the smoke was from a resistor nearby...


Or if you're brave, just fire it up and see if it works.

[TerryD]

I had already fired it up.  the smoke was definitely from inside the transformer but it's working fine now.  I wonder if I did any serious damage?
I tried it with a two ten cabinet now with the pins tightened  and seem to be doing pretty good.  The 12 I put in the delux clone is still farting pretty good and better.  It did sound good once with this but I tried another speaker and then put this back in.  This is  an old alnico speaker from what I don't know .  Is there a little bit of a trick in putting a speaker in a cabinet.  I've only done it a 100 times.  Can the screws be too tight or too loose??

[HotBluePlates]

Yes. Don't crank down the screws. Only tight enough to keep the speaker from falling out.


That sounds like an exaggeration, by torquing the screws too tight warps the frame and causes voice coil rubbing. Interestingly, about finger-tight is often enough to mount the speaker just fine.