Thinking about stocking Mercury Magnetics transformers

[EL34]

Not enough meat on the bone means that there is not enough markup

And buying in bulk means you have to buy in bulk, which I do not want to do

I can buy 4 transformers from MM and get the same price as if I buy 50
And I don't have to buy 18 of each model, I can buy as many as I want for the same price
And I get the highest discount because they know who I am and want my business

CT does not have proper retail pricing on their web site so retail merchants are not gonna be interested in this at all

In case anyone did not see this
This explains why CT is not gonna work
http://el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=17599.msg177244#msg177244

[Willabe]

Not enough meat on the bone means that there is not enough markup

Yes, I know, just being silly, sorry.

[Willabe]

And I don't have to buy 18 of each model, I can buy as many as I want for the same price
And I get the highest discount because they know who I am and want my business

Talk to Mark and see what he can do for you? All he can say at worst is no.

I've told him before about your forum and I think he has stopped by before and had a good look around.


                           Brad   
 

[EL34]

I'll drop them an email and see what they say

[Willabe]

I'll drop them an email and see what they say

Ask for Mark so you get it straight from the horses mouth, he's the guy you want there. (Look at CT's drawings and it's Mark's signature on them.)


                    Brad   

[Willabe]

Speaking of hype, Tone Quest Report mag over the years has given very high praise of amp builders amps they interviewed and also when they have replaced iron in old classic amps they bought for MM and CT.


                           Brad     

[Mike_J]

Was just on Classic tone web site
I would not say it is easy to get around on that site

geez, why can't you get a simple grid type layout and see all the models for fender on one page?

While the Classic tone web site is not easy to get around on there are specification sheets for every transformer on their site so you know what you are buying.  The biggest complaint I have about MM is there is a lack of clarity as to their transformer specifications.

Thanks
Mike

[SILVERGUN]

Show him this...I like the looks of it
Tell him he'll see 50% increase in web traffic 
(1000% in the first week,,,,just like today)

[Ed_Chambley]

Ok, it does not look like there is enough meat left on the bone to sell Classic tone transformers

Example: princeton reverb OT 40-18045
http://www.classictone.net/40-18045.html

I would have to buy 18 pieces to get them for $25.61
Now add the shipping cost for me on 18 pieces and you can easily add $2 to 3 each for a heavy package like that

Anyone can go there and buy a princeton reverb OT for $34.44

Now take a bunch of different models and multiply that
I don't want to put $50k into a a new line of transformers and I don't have room to stock 18 pieces times 25 models of transformers

That deal does not compute

That is what I was saying.  They sell their transformers as cheaply to anyone who wants to buy one.  It could be a loss leader, but why would you want to market their product and sell it for such little profit?  Their Tier is not Distributor, Jobber and retail.  They really don't care if someone brings me the part because I certainly will not cover the labor of installing one is someone cranks their Marshall and frys the darn thing.

No profit for you and no protection for the installer.  Maybe I do spend more money than I have to, but it is difficult for me to support this practice.  You want me to install a Classictone.  If it goes bad I have to charge again and I certainly cannot supply them then I would be obligated to replace the part.

If I make some money on the part I can do the job again even if it is the owners fault and not lose my shirt or piss someone off.  Sure, I can stand on the idea that no part supplied by the customer will be warrantied, but it is a problem waiting to happen.  The main problem is I know most of the ownesr of the amps personally and consider them friends.

If it is for my amp it does not matter.  I guess it boils down to your market.  Do you mainly sell to DIY or repair shops?

Remember you get the full guarantee: if it breaks in half you get to keep both halves.

[EL34]

I have to agree with Ed

This is a not a good business practice
I like wholesalers who sell for full retail to the public
That way I can buy wholesale and sell discounted retail and still make a decent profit

I have to pay the bills here just like everyone else

I sent CT an email, lets see what they say


Patrick at MM on the other hand bent over backwards to say this to me in an email
I emailed him thinking he did not know me from Adam
All I did was put links to my web sites to show him that I had a valid retail store on the web

Hi Doug,
Actually I know who you are and we would love to have you offering us!
We would get you set up at our dealer pricing which is our 25 Piece price tier and I will email you the Discount Pricing Chart

And there was a bunch more, but this is the gist of it
Now that is customer service
 

[EL34]

Well this pretty much knocks CT out of the running
These guys are not in business to set up dealers to sell their products

Who's next on the list?
There's always Mojo and I am already a Mojo dealer

Hi Doug,
Thanks for your interest in our transformers. If you are looking at our stock ClassicTone line, we do have a 12 piece minimum order per item per order for dealers / OEM and supply our deepest discounts at 18 pieces per item. We do not mix and match quantities. Our pricing is based on quantity bought per item per order only.

Thanks again,
Joe Janisch

ClassicTone By Magnetic Components, Inc.
9520 Ainslie Street
Schiller Park, IL 60176
Tel# 847-671-0633
Fax# 847-671-9419
magneticcomponents@sbcglobal.net
www.magneticcomponents.net
www.classictone.net

[EL34]

Ed,
I am looking for someone who has a full line of fender transformers
I don't see much on that site unless i missed it

As for the Edcor, 4 week waiting times will not work for me

[Ed_Chambley]

Do you know who Tube Depot buys from?  They don't look like New Sensor.  They have a good variety, but I have never used them.  $60 retail for a Tweed Deluxe.

[SILVERGUN]

I'm sure you've seen this, but I like the way this page is laid out:
http://www.hammondmfg.com/guitarLineOT.htm

Any time I've purchased Hammond through Newark they are drop shipped direct from Hammond in N.Y.

The Hammond name has me tricked into believing I am buying quality....not sure why that is other than how long they've been around...and so far everything I've seen looks high quality, and the OTs sound good to me.

I wonder what/if anything they would offer you?

[EL34]

Do you know who Tube Depot buys from?  They don't look like New Sensor.  They have a good variety, but I have never used them.  $60 retail for a Tweed Deluxe.

yeah, those are not new sensor trannys
Some are CT, some look like Mojo to me also

[SILVERGUN]

Do you know who Tube Depot buys from?  They don't look like New Sensor.  They have a good variety, but I have never used them.  $60 retail for a Tweed Deluxe.

I bought a cheap Champ OT from them and it had MOJO printed on it

[EL34]

I'm sure you've seen this, but I like the way this page is laid out:
http://www.hammondmfg.com/guitarLineOT.htm

Any time I've purchased Hammond through Newark they are drop shipped direct from Hammond in N.Y.

The Hammond name has me tricked into believing I am buying quality....not sure why that is other than how long they've been around...and so far everything I've seen looks high quality, and the OTs sound good to me.

I wonder what/if anything they would offer you?

I doubt they would talk to me
Look at the 4 distributors listed
Mouser, newark, Digi key and Allied

[EL34]

Do you know who Tube Depot buys from?  They don't look like New Sensor.  They have a good variety, but I have never used them.  $60 retail for a Tweed Deluxe.

I bought a cheap Champ OT from them and it had MOJO printed on it

That's what I thought

I am a mojo dealer and I get the biggest discount they have because Andy and I go way back
and we work together to create stuff like the relay boards, etc

I may just end up with Mojo and offer MM as special orders at a discount
I already stock a few Mojo trannys

I like the idea of being a MM dealer and having high end stuff for those that like to pay more than needed just to get a high end brand name

[Willabe]

With MM, I've bought a few sets of iron from them and on some of the PT's they bring out the actual solid core wire wind and slide old style 'spaghetti' insulation over it instead of terminating the solid core wire wind and soldering on a stranded wire fly lead.

I don't trust the solid core fly lead, to easy to stress break routing it in the chassis and it is difficult to make nice twisted pairs with them.


                  Brad   

[SILVERGUN]

I like the idea of being a MM dealer and having high end stuff for those that like to pay more than needed just to get a high end brand name

Yeah,
I think there will always be guys who just want the best of the best....and will pay for it

And when I have been tempted to buy one I was looking for an east coast distributor.

How would you handle their TONE guarantee?....especially with the nut-job population that are looking for any reason to blame why their amp doesn't sound like it "should"?

[Ed_Chambley]

Do you know who Tube Depot buys from?  They don't look like New Sensor.  They have a good variety, but I have never used them.  $60 retail for a Tweed Deluxe.

I bought a cheap Champ OT from them and it had MOJO printed on it

That's what I thought

I am a mojo dealer and I get the biggest discount they have because Andy and I go way back
and we work together to create stuff like the relay boards, etc

I may just end up with Mojo and offer MM as special orders at a discount
I already stock a few Mojo trannys

I like the idea of being a MM dealer and having high end stuff for those that like to pay more than needed just to get a high end brand name

So with this quote maybe I should buy from Classic tone.  Maybe the folks a MM pay a living wage.  Sure Ace hardware costs more, but they still have bolt bins.  Every company who pays a living wage has to charge more than those who do not.

Keep buying the cheapest and it will become the standard.  We will eventually run out of options and have to use substandard components.  Oh wait, it is already happening because you are getting squeezed by NSC not making some trannys.

Are you sure you cannot source some from China?

And I thought you conservative.

[Ed_Chambley]

I like the idea of being a MM dealer and having high end stuff for those that like to pay more than needed just to get a high end brand name

Yeah,
I think there will always be guys who just want the best of the best....and will pay for it

And when I have been tempted to buy one I was looking for an east coast distributor.

How would you handle their TONE guarantee?....especially with the nut-job population that are looking for any reason to blame why their amp doesn't sound like it "should"?

You send it back.  They refund the money.  Really!!

I asked CJ at Weber how this works and they know the serial number where each is sold.  You send it back and they credit Weber.  Once this credit is done Weber refunds to you.  Fairly simple, but it takes 10 days or so.

I did not know they still offered that, but if you charge 2x as much it is not really a guarantee is it.  Sort of cool because you have nothing to lose tho.

[SILVERGUN]

Maybe the folks a MM pay a living wage.  Sure Ace hardware costs more, but they still have bolt bins.  Every company who pays a living wage has to charge more than those who do not.

Keep buying the cheapest and it will become the standard.  We will eventually run out of options and have to use substandard components.  Oh wait, it is already happening because you are getting squeezed by NSC not making some trannys.

MM isn't helping with a ridiculously over-priced premium product.
What is the absolute best tone worth to someone?.....TWICE as much as 'almost' the absolute best tone?? 

Magical laminations and solid gold windings....ok then

The 'same' materials used in a slightly different way, sprinkled with a ton of hype = 1.5X what I'd pay for a Hammond (MAX)

2X (3X in some cases   ) is just exploiting my lack of intelligence. 

I refuse to have the absolute best tone for that reason. 

[Ed_Chambley]

Maybe the folks a MM pay a living wage.  Sure Ace hardware costs more, but they still have bolt bins.  Every company who pays a living wage has to charge more than those who do not.

Keep buying the cheapest and it will become the standard.  We will eventually run out of options and have to use substandard components.  Oh wait, it is already happening because you are getting squeezed by NSC not making some trannys.

MM isn't helping with a ridiculously over-priced premium product.
What is the absolute best tone worth to someone?.....TWICE as much as 'almost' the absolute best tone?? 

Magical laminations and solid gold windings....ok then

The 'same' materials used in a slightly different way, sprinkled with a ton of hype = 1.5X what I'd pay for a Hammond (MAX)

2X (3X in some cases    ) is just exploiting my lack of intelligence. 

I refuse to have the absolute best tone for that reason. 

Coca-Cola is basically sugar water.

MM makes a great product.  You know the price and willingly pay it.

No need to badmouth a US company.  They have a different business model and it seems to be working better than most.

[jojokeo]

Maybe the folks a MM pay a living wage.  Sure Ace hardware costs more, but they still have bolt bins.  Every company who pays a living wage has to charge more than those who do not.

Keep buying the cheapest and it will become the standard.  We will eventually run out of options and have to use substandard components.  Oh wait, it is already happening because you are getting squeezed by NSC not making some trannys.

MM isn't helping with a ridiculously over-priced premium product.
What is the absolute best tone worth to someone?.....TWICE as much as 'almost' the absolute best tone?? 

Magical laminations and solid gold windings....ok then

The 'same' materials used in a slightly different way, sprinkled with a ton of hype = 1.5X what I'd pay for a Hammond (MAX)

2X (3X in some cases    ) is just exploiting my lack of intelligence. 

I refuse to have the absolute best tone for that reason. 

Coca-Cola is basically sugar water.

MM makes a great product.  You know the price and willingly pay it.

No need to badmouth a US company.  They have a different business model and it seems to be working better than most.

I don't even like the "tone" of this message!? 
With all this "hype" talk I think someone mentioned global warming & solar energy being the solution didn't they???

[Ed_Chambley]

Maybe the folks a MM pay a living wage.  Sure Ace hardware costs more, but they still have bolt bins.  Every company who pays a living wage has to charge more than those who do not.

Keep buying the cheapest and it will become the standard.  We will eventually run out of options and have to use substandard components.  Oh wait, it is already happening because you are getting squeezed by NSC not making some trannys.

MM isn't helping with a ridiculously over-priced premium product.
What is the absolute best tone worth to someone?.....TWICE as much as 'almost' the absolute best tone?? 

Magical laminations and solid gold windings....ok then

The 'same' materials used in a slightly different way, sprinkled with a ton of hype = 1.5X what I'd pay for a Hammond (MAX)

2X (3X in some cases    ) is just exploiting my lack of intelligence. 

I refuse to have the absolute best tone for that reason. 

Coca-Cola is basically sugar water.

MM makes a great product.  You know the price and willingly pay it.

No need to badmouth a US company.  They have a different business model and it seems to be working better than most.

I don't even like the "tone" of this message!? 
With all this "hype" talk I think someone mentioned global warming & solar energy being the solution didn't they???

I do not know nuthin about birthin no babies.

I am not sure about much, but I can assure you that you can try a MM OT for the cost of freight.  I cannot believe they still do that.  I just wonder how that is taking advantage of anyone.  I mean it is not like they are the IRS.

[sluckey]

I think MM builds an excellent transformer. And they found a niche market by building exact copies of old transformers (well, at least exact electrical properties). I have a full set of MM iron in my TDR. That's 4 pieces. I bought mine through a guy that passed on his quantity discount to me.

But, as good as they are, no way would I pay that price for another one of their transformers! There's plenty of other good choices out there.

[jojokeo]

Just a personal perspective here but as long as you properly size your PT and/or choke iron, I just don't see any advantage of one from another to be gained no matter which supplier or make is used. BUT I do think the most important piece of iron in your amp is the OT by far (with all other stuff being equal).
I don't usually have the three pieces having the same name on them for this reason. I go with best value on PT & choke (which have ample capacity), then choose whatever I feel is best for the OT. This can definitely be because of what's on hand or any other host of reasons. But if you find any MM iron in any of my amps, it will be found at the OT positions. That is unless I found some smoking deal off Craig's list or ebay first?

[SILVERGUN]

MM makes a great product.  You know the price and willingly pay it.

No need to badmouth a US company.  They have a different business model and it seems to be working better than most.

Not me.

I'm not bad mouthing an American company, just the knuckleheads that will pay those prices. 

[Ed_Chambley]

MM makes a great product.  You know the price and willingly pay it.

No need to badmouth a US company.  They have a different business model and it seems to be working better than most.

Not me.

I'm not bad mouthing an American company, just the knuckleheads that will pay those prices. 

Couldn't resist this one.

If you have never owned one, but still have an opinion it has to be based on lack of experience and/or knowledge and must be based on price only.

I will bet you any amount you want that your family has a house larger than necessary and could save enough money by driving cheaper cars and not eating out to buy as many MM trannys you want.

What are you saying.  Knuckleheads spend money they do not have to?

Now what were you saying?

[SILVERGUN]

Just a personal perspective here but as long as you properly size your PT and/or choke iron, I just don't see any advantage of one from another to be gained no matter which supplier or make is used. BUT I do think the most important piece of iron in your amp is the OT by far (with all other stuff being equal).
I don't usually have the three pieces having the same name on them for this reason. I go with best value on PT & choke (which have ample capacity), then choose whatever I feel is best for the OT. This can definitely be because of what's on hand or any other host of reasons. But if you find any MM iron in any of my amps, it will be found at the OT positions. That is unless I found some smoking deal off Craig's list or ebay first?

Part of my hostility comes from the idea that gets pushed that a PT is gonna make a tone difference...

It's like saying a car wax is gonna give you a performance increase 

Once anyone stands behind that claim,,,I lose my ability to pay attention.

I understand why they do it....I refuse to agree.
Most guitar players are dumb....if you say it, they'll buy it....there's a certain responsibility there for people who know better.

[SILVERGUN]

I wonder how many people state an opinion that have never used Mercury Magnetics?

Yes, I refuse to have the absolute best tone....

I can't hear it over the drummer anyway 

[Ed_Chambley]

I wonder how many people state an opinion that have never used Mercury Magnetics?

Yes, I refuse to have the absolute best tone....

I can't hear it over the drummer anyway 

Yes, but you avoided my question.

See, it is really not about money, it is about resentment.  Now I know.  So why call me a knucklehead if I buy a MM and you have leather seats?

[SILVERGUN]

See, it is really not about money, it is about resentment.  Now I know.  So why call me a knucklehead if I buy a MM and you have leather seats?

Let's see how fast I can pedal backwards............................................

I wasn't calling YOU specifically a knucklehead,,,,,it was more aimed at the vast majority of pluckers who hear an improvement in tone when they wear a MM t-shirt

I respect you too much to call you names.....If anything it would probably be MR. Chambley 

[Ed_Chambley]

See, it is really not about money, it is about resentment.  Now I know.  So why call me a knucklehead if I buy a MM and you have leather seats?

Let's see how fast I can pedal backwards............................................

I wasn't calling YOU specifically a knucklehead,,,,,it was more aimed at the vast majority of pluckers who hear an improvement in tone when they wear a MM t-shirt

I respect you too much to call you names.....If anything it would probably be MR. Chambley 

I am having fun.  You better call me Ed.  Mr, Chambley is my father.

I understand hype and I do know what you mean.  There is a difference and I have only bought OT's.  I can tell you this, it cost almost as much to put parallel caps in as to step up to a MM tranny.

Never forget what I can remember.

[sluckey]

The hype that was circulating in 2002 when I bought my MM iron was something like this... "Give the OT about 100 hours to warm up and break in. Then it will sound much better."

I suspect that hype came from a low-tech person.   

[SILVERGUN]

I can tell you this, it cost almost as much to put parallel caps in as to step up to a MM tranny.

I knew,,,somehow,,,this would come back on me 

There is a difference and I have only bought OT's.

I guess I'm gonna have to TRY ONE before I picket on the street in front of their building.

I'll make a deal....
If Doug carries them, I'll buy ONE

The hype that was circulating in 2002 when I bought my MM iron was something like this... "Give the OT about 100 hours to warm up and break in. Then it will sound much better."

I suspect that hype came from a low-tech person.   

.....knucklehead 

[sluckey]

I was being kind. I know how sensitive Ed is.

[SILVERGUN]

copy

[Ed_Chambley]

I was being kind. I know how sensitive Ed is.

True, but at least I know heater phasing is bullshit.

Don't start with me Sluckey.  I will get Icehouse barred from Alabama.

BTW, how in the hell would you know what tranny is best.  You don't even know how long it takes an elephant to stomp a bucket of water till it evaporates.

[EL34]

I like the idea of being a MM dealer and having high end stuff for those that like to pay more than needed just to get a high end brand name

Yeah,
I think there will always be guys who just want the best of the best....and will pay for it

And when I have been tempted to buy one I was looking for an east coast distributor.

How would you handle their TONE guarantee?....especially with the nut-job population that are looking for any reason to blame why their amp doesn't sound like it "should"?

I was not aware of that
I had better ask patrick cause I don't want to have anything to do with that and the goofballs that might involve
Thanks for the heads up

[EL34]

Show him this...I like the looks of it
Tell him he'll see 50% increase in web traffic 
(1000% in the first week,,,,just like today)

I don't know what you are saying here???
I am missing something

[EL34]

I sent a reply back to CT about their pricing policy
 
 

From: Doug Hoffman <hoffmanamps@comporium.net>
 To: Magnetic Components <magneticcomponents@sbcglobal.net>
 Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2014 12:03 PM
 Subject: Re: dealer inquiry
  

 
Thanks for your reply
 That's not gonna work for me
 You guys sell too low to the general public
 There's no meat left on the bone for dealers
 
 
 
  Thanks,
 Doug Hoffman

Hi Doug,
I understand.
Thanks for the inquiry,

Joe Janisch

ClassicTone By Magnetic Components, Inc.
9520 Ainslie Street
Schiller Park, IL 60176
Tel# 847-671-0633
Fax# 847-671-9419
magneticcomponents@sbcglobal.net
www.magneticcomponents.net
www.classictone.net

Sounds like they could give a Shit

[jojokeo]

Show him this...I like the looks of it
Tell him he'll see 50% increase in web traffic 
(1000% in the first week,,,,just like today)

I don't know what you are saying here???
I am missing something

SG changed their radio button to yours to link to your site - figuratively to give you a visual!

[jojokeo]

I was being kind. I know how sensitive Ed is.

True, but at least I know heater phasing is bullshit.

What??? I benefitted from this big time in the past!

[EL34]

There is a big difference in the quality of the laminates on many transformers
All laminates are not the same

Really cheap tranny's use really cheap materials

Who knows how much better MM laminates are than the other guys

Maybe the folks a MM pay a living wage.  Sure Ace hardware costs more, but they still have bolt bins.  Every company who pays a living wage has to charge more than those who do not.

Keep buying the cheapest and it will become the standard.  We will eventually run out of options and have to use substandard components.  Oh wait, it is already happening because you are getting squeezed by NSC not making some trannys.

MM isn't helping with a ridiculously over-priced premium product.
What is the absolute best tone worth to someone?.....TWICE as much as 'almost' the absolute best tone?? 

Magical laminations and solid gold windings....ok then

The 'same' materials used in a slightly different way, sprinkled with a ton of hype = 1.5X what I'd pay for a Hammond (MAX)

2X (3X in some cases    ) is just exploiting my lack of intelligence. 

I refuse to have the absolute best tone for that reason. 

[EL34]

Thanks, I missed that
I doubt I can get my own store buttons there or else there would be a whole lot more than two right now if it was that easy
Especially now that I called them out on their dealer pricing policy

Show him this...I like the looks of it
Tell him he'll see 50% increase in web traffic 
(1000% in the first week,,,,just like today)

I don't know what you are saying here???
I am missing something

SG changed their radio button to yours to link to your site - figuratively to give you a visual!

[Ed_Chambley]

I was being kind. I know how sensitive Ed is.

True, but at least I know heater phasing is bullshit.

What??? I benefitted from this big time in the past!

Just messing around.  I don't want to mess with anyone's faith.

[jojokeo]

'South Park': Cartman, "Faith provides hope. Hope provides change. Doing the same thing over & over again expecting change is insanity. Therefore, kids Faith = Insanity!"

[sluckey]

Now, now Ed. I was truly being sensitive toward you. Please don't mess with my IceHouse distributer. I fear they would be out of business except for me.  My favorite Icehouse teeshirt... "I've only had one in dog beers!"