Want a bigger/cleaner 5e3

[Toobgeek]

A friend of mine had Clark Amplification build him a Tweed Fender Tremolux without the trem circuit.  It is extremely close to a 5e3 Deluxe (the PI is different, but is not long tailed).  This amp is sweeeeet.  However, some years ago, I built a 5e3 and modded and modded and modded and could never make that amp sound really good.  I have learned a lot about amp building since then.  So, I'm looking for a tweed amp...based on the 5e3 preamp.  Maybe 25-to 30 watts.   I want it to have more headroom.  I'd prefer it to be cathode biased, but I'm not married to the idea.  I'm looking at possibly 6l6's or el34's.  I'm not opposed to 6550's or kt88's either as I have never built an amp around those tubes.  Any thoughts or suggestions?  If I go with the 6550 family...what kind of B+ should I be looking for?

Thanks!

[Willabe]

Fenders tweed Pro, 5E5, 2x6L6, 30w, single 15" Jensen alnico speaker. The big brother to the 5E3.

(I think it was Tubegeek that has built a few of these?)

Layout page 1, schemo page 2;

http://el34world.com/charts/Schematics/files/fender/Fender_PRO_5E5.pdf


                Brad     

[TubeGeek]

Definitely my favourite tweed circuit.


I have built a few of them, finished building myself one last month.


Here is a link to one of those projects:  http://youtu.be/kO7_mQDmGi0

[smackoj]

Most players choose a Tweed design because of the natural breakup or 'growl' that these circuits offer, especially the Deluxe versions running two 6v6 power tubes. That is kind of the opposite of clean headroom IMO. So maybe you need to consider other more 'modern' designs like blackface fender or even a hybrid type like the Music Man line of amps?  You could still go Tweed and get more 'headroom' but I believe the basic idea would be to build one with much more power and then run it well below the maximum output range. IOW, build a version of the Tweed Twin amp and then don't turn it up past 5 on the dial. 

Just a few thoughts on your proposition senor, not gospel by any means.

 

[Willabe]

Beautiful work Tubegeek! 

But, I thought you built a few 5E5's? (Not 5E5A's.)


              Brad   

[plexi50]

I have been wanting to make the changes from the 5E3 head i made a while back to the Pro 5E5 circuit. How simple that was. I just finished making them tonight. Much better to my ears. More gusto and headroom. Im happy.  This thread pushed me to just make some time and do it.
Your amp sounds great TubeGeek!

 

[Willabe]

With what iron set?


                Brad   

[TubeGeek]

Beautiful work Tubegeek! 

But, I thought you built a few 5E5's? (Not 5E5A's.)


              Brad   

Went back and forth between 5e5 and 5e5a's for a bit but ended with the 5e5a.

[Willabe]

Ohh.   

What iron set did you use with the 5E5?


               Brad   

[TubeGeek]

Not sure if you're asking me or not... The iron I used was heyboer from mojotone's pro kit.

[Willabe]

Not sure if you're asking me or not... The iron I used was heyboer from mojotone's pro kit.

Yes I am.

So same PT as in/for the 5E5A? I'm asking because of B+ voltages.


                          Brad   

[TubeGeek]

Not sure if you're asking me or not... The iron I used was heyboer from mojotone's pro kit.

Yes I am.

So same PT as in/for the 5E5A? I'm asking because of B+ voltages.


                          Brad   

I measure 420 VDC B+ in the 5e5a.  It's a little higher than original spec.  I haven't built the 5e5 circuit, only the 5e5a.


I can get the B+ spot on when using a variac.  Bringing the line voltage to 110 VAC does the trick and all voltages fall into spec.  My normal line voltage is 125VAC.


I don't hear much difference with the voltages.  If anything I'd say the lower B+ gives a bit darker sound with a little less bite on the overdrive.  Bringing it back to normal line voltage gives a little more distortion to my ears.  I expected the opposite.

[Willabe]

Ok, thanks.


               Brad   

[plexi50]

I just finished a complete rebuild of my 5E3 head to the 5E5A Pro. 12 hours. Jeez louise! What a sweet blossoming amp!
I feel like i just found one of the sweetest amps in the world in a closet some where. Worth every hour of eye ball stress and exhaustion. 

I am using a 360-0-360 PT: Edit 355-0-355 PT from Magnetic Tone. My OT is a 30-40 watt (not sure) (nice size) from an old 1962 Wurlitzer organ. My 6L6GC tubes are at 375VDC and -24.64 cathode biased 250r.  19 watts per tube.  Using  a 5U4GB rectifier.  Wowza! What nice tone and EQ response.

This is what i have been searching for in an old school tweed tone.
 

[TubeGeek]

I just finished a complete rebuild of my 5E3 head to the 5E5A Pro. 12 hours. Jeez louise! What a sweet blossoming amp!
I feel like i just found one of the sweetest amps in the world in a closet some where. Worth every hour of eye ball stress and exhaustion. 

I am using a 360-0-360 PT from Magnetic Tone. My OT is a 30-40 watt (not sure) (nice size) from an old 1962 Wurlitzer organ. My 6L6GC tubes are at 375VDC and -24.64 cathode biased 250r.  19 watts per tube.  Using  a 5U4GB rectifier.  Wowza! What nice tone and EQ response.

This is what i have been searching for in an old school tweed tone.

I felt the same when I discovered the Pro's.  Welcome to the Pro club. Congrats!

[plexi50]

Much thanks to Toobgeek for starting this thread and everyone's input. I am stoked at the 5E5A circuit.
A lot like my 1955 Bassman with the 4.7 Meg global feedback network if i am not mistaken. And also that 220K r bridging the treble and bass pot   

[punkykatt]

Plexi50, did you use the big choke the 5E5a calls for in the PS? Punky

[plexi50]

Funny you should ask that question Punkykatt. I thought i had a fender choke laying around here but i quess i dont after all. Right now i just have a 470r resistor making the B+ connection. I know using a choke will produce different tone. Probably not much.
Off in search of a choke i can use.

I found this. I am assuming it is a choke. Old cloth wrapped around the winding.  Looks like Mummy cloth from a tomb.
Do not know where it came from. 1.0 ohm reading.
Probably not good to guess weather it will work or not.

[DummyLoad]

Funny you should ask that question Punkykatt. I thought i had a fender choke laying around here but i quess i dont after all. Right now i just have a 470r resistor making the B+ connection. I know using a choke will produce different tone. Probably not much.
Off in search of a choke i can use.

I found this. I am assuming it is a choke. Old cloth wrapped around the winding.  Looks like Mummy cloth from a tomb.
Do not know where it came from. 1.0 ohm reading.
Probably not good to guess weather it will work or not.

it'll work but it's far from optimal. use part with values similar to original.

--pete

[plexi50]

What choke in henries inductance would be recommended for the 5E5A? This is looking almost identical  to my 1955 Bassman 410 all over again.
There being 100k feedback instead of 22k in the bassman 410/

[DummyLoad]

use a 4-10H @ 150-200mA.

http://www.hammondmfg.com/pdf/EDB159R.pdf

weber sells one too...

W014684

or just use the 4H 90mA fender.

--pete

[Willabe]

The 5E5A plate supply (OT CT) is choke fed, 90mA's be enough for the whole amp, will it?


                Brad   

[sluckey]

The 5E5A plate supply (OT CT) is choke fed, 90mA's be enough for the whole amp, will it?

I don't think so.

[DummyLoad]

The 5E5A plate supply (OT CT) is choke fed, 90mA's be enough for the whole amp, will it?

I don't think so.

you're right. missed that. use 200mA or better. old and can't focus well... 


--pete

[Willabe]

old and can't focus well...

Naw, it's that monkey your hangin around with.  Too much monkey business.



                Brad       

[plexi50]

The 5E5A plate supply (OT CT) is choke fed, 90mA's be enough for the whole amp, will it?

I don't think so.

you're right. missed that. use 200mA or better. old and can't focus well... 


--pete

Im old and cant think latley. Ok i confess most of the time these days/ I find myself asking some questions i should know the answer to.
Just call it getting a refresher course/

[DummyLoad]

it's true.. 


<<<---- he makes me do evil things... and write things i don't mean. 

old and can't focus well...

Naw, it's that monkey your hangin around with.  Too much monkey business.



                Brad   

[Willabe]

it's true.. 

<<<---- he makes me do evil things... and write things i don't mean.

 

[DummyLoad]

it's true.. 

<<<---- he makes me do evil things... and write things i don't mean.

 

so, in the future remember: when i give bad advice... just blame it on the monkey.

yeah that's it...

--pete

[Willabe]

 

[SILVERGUN]

so, in the future remember: when i give bad advice... just blame it on the monkey.

yeah that's it...

Ya know...that's part of what is crazy about this place....
I always feel like I'm talking to the avatar.

So DL's a goofy ape, and Wilabe looks like a young Rory, and tubenit looks like Yosemite Sam,,,and EL34 is a cowboy,,,,jojo looks like Eddie VH,,,plexi is a Fender (?),,,PRR is ??? (what is PRR's avatar anyway?)

I get screwed up when someone changes their avatar, and I feel like I'm now talking to a different person.

While I'm here babbling:
- EXCELLENT video TubeGeek!!
- Nice work plexi50!
- What happened to Toobgeek?....you guys remember him??....the op? 

 

[sluckey]

bigger/cleaner 5e3...   

[Willabe]

and Wilabe looks like a young Rory,

Been a looong time since I had a full head of hair like that.     

PRR is ??? (what is PRR's avatar anyway?)

A teacher/professor.


                     Brad   

[plexi50]

Will this choke work? I am having a miserable time finding the hammond R9 to buy it. Lots of info but no buy and checkout/
http://www.alliedelec.com/triad-magnetics-c-14x/70218147/


https://www.alliedelec.com/images/products/datasheets/bm/TRIAD_MAGNETIC/70218147.pdf

Say it wont work. I already bought it. 

[DummyLoad]

Will this choke work? I am having a miserable time finding the hammond R9 to buy it. Lots of info but no buy and checkout/
http://www.alliedelec.com/triad-magnetics-c-14x/70218147/


https://www.alliedelec.com/images/products/datasheets/bm/TRIAD_MAGNETIC/70218147.pdf

Say it wont work. I already bought it. 

it'll work.


FYI: 6 can ship immediately.


http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Hammond-Manufacturing/159R/?qs=XvXitOp9GsnUMPapSVZrsw%3D%3D


--pete

[plexi50]

I went to Newark and could not find it. I didn't try Mouser.  Thanks for the link DummyLoad! Maybe i should get a few of them for future stock.

[plexi50]

Is everything made in China? I like the box myself.

[HotBluePlates]

Is everything made in China?

Hammond is made in Canada. I presume Mercury is made in the U.S., don't know about other brands.

[phsyconoodler]

I've built a few high powered 5e3's with 6l6's using big Hammond iron and they have lots of headroom in comparison to the originals. They also growl beautifully just at higher volumes.
i built one about eight years ago with a 15" weber speaker that kicked serious butt.
 I didnt change the circuit at all. I just put in bigger iron and used a 5ar4  rectifier tube and filter caps rated for 500v. Cathode biased still. I used a Hammond 1650 series OT.
  Highly recommended build.

[plexi50]

My 5E3 converted to 5E5A amp sounds great now. 5E5A Pro. Funny i never noticed the 5E5A Pro looking almost identical to the 5E7 Bandmaster. Great tone. I have 3 inputs. High,Low,High impedance and the channel blending is sweet..

I also have a switch to bring V2A cathode bypass cap in or out of circuit.