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Offline dpm309

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5F2A Hybrid
« on: July 07, 2015, 01:45:08 pm »
I have a Hammond 269EX PT and a Hammond 125ESE OT from a High Octane amp that I scrapped a couple of years ago (used the chassis for an 18-watt). Never liked the sound of the HO - way too harsh but good for metal. Any way I cobbled together an 5F2A using a full wave rectifier and am getting a B+ of about 280VDC. Voltages on the tubes are: V1 (12AX7): P1  131, P3  1.8, P6 124, and P8 1.2.  V2 (6V6): P1 14, P3 278, and P4 243.  These are quite a bit lower than a 5F2A but I fired it up and am getting a fairly decent sound but breaks up way too early. Tried a 6K6 which gave the amp a rather thin tone and a 6L6 which was a little louder than the 6V6 but still broke up too early. Would like a little more clean headroom but don't know if it is possible with the PT I am using. Any suggestions or will I have to bite the bullet and buy a PT with higher voltage rating? Also, would there be any difference in sound using a tube rectifier versus the full wave SS rectifier? I have read several previous posts on 5F2A's but could not find anything that would help. I am using Hoffman's 5F2A layout with the only difference being the PT and rectifier. I'll post my voltages on the voltage page also. Would also like to use a 6L6 (similiar to Big Daddy's 6L6 Champ) which the 125ESE should be able to handle with no problem.
Thanks

Offline Willabe

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Re: 5F2A Hybrid
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2015, 01:59:49 pm »
SE class A amps B+ is already 'sagged' so really no sound difference with SS instead of tube rectification.

You might be able to get a few more dcv's with a bigger 1st B+ filter cap?With the SS rectifier you could put in 100uF and see if you like it?

Offline eleventeen

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Re: 5F2A Hybrid
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2015, 02:42:52 pm »
Maybe you should try to get 50+ more volts on your preamp tubes by moving the B+ feed to a higher B+ node if such exists? (It appears to, since you are getting lots more B+ "on a later stage")


In other words, IMO you need more like 180 volts on the first couple of preamp stages. If this does the deed, you can reduce the size of the dropping resistor that feeds the preamp tubes. For the moment, you can just move a wire.



« Last Edit: July 07, 2015, 02:52:35 pm by eleventeen »

Offline dpm309

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Re: 5F2A Hybrid
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2015, 05:21:32 pm »
That's what I thought on the SS rectifier. Put a 47uf cap in parallel with the 33uf 1st stage filter cap (80uf) with no difference in B+ but seemed to add a little more clean headroom. Disconnected the 22K dropping resistor and jumpered the nodes which increased the preamp plate voltages up to 166 and 162VDC. This added even more clean headroom and volume to the amp. Is there any harm in only having basically 2 filter stages? I also disconnected the feedback loop which also helped with the overall volume but added a very minor amount of hum. Next, I am going to try the 6L6.
Thanks for suggestions and I will be reporting back on this as I will be trying a few other mods but at this point, the amp is sounding close to what I am trying to achieve with parts I had on hand.

Offline eleventeen

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Re: 5F2A Hybrid
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2015, 05:57:19 pm »
"Is there any harm in only having basically 2 filter stages?"


Not per se as far as I know, and maybe not at all. When you consider that Leo only had 8/8/8 uf on a 5F2---Wow!


There *are* some considerations as to the isolation the node resistors provide in terms of signals and feedback. What those considerations are, I can't be very specific about. After all, we'd imagine that if Leo could have gotten away with 1 or 2 fewer e-caps, we'd expect him to do so. Usually, we have 100K plate resistors and more like 5K or 10K between nodes...on later blackface amps. And those 100Ks probably provide enough isolation between stages and of course swamp the effects of the internode resistors.

Offline Fresh_Start

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Re: 5F2A Hybrid
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2015, 08:42:39 pm »
I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with your B+. Did you reduce the power tube cathode resistor to compensate for lower B+ and bias tube properly? If not, your power tube may be biased a bit cold. (I aplogize - it's late and I lack brain power at the moment to calculate 6V6 plate dissipation vs. max right now).

A choke in place of the resistor between the power tube plate and screen grid nodes on the power rail will do two nice things. First, better filtering. Second, less voltage drop between plate and screen grid (assuming right choke). I'd recommend choke between two filter caps before power tube plate if not for your low B+.

Personally, I would prefer at least three nodes on the power rail: power tube plate, screen grid, preamp triode plates. If you up filter cap values from 5F2A stock, you can reduce resistor(s) in pi filter(s) and have same ripple rejection.  For example, replace 22K with 5K while jumping 8K to 32K. You'll also improve filtering by separating your 33 and 47uf caps by a small power resistor, even just 1K, having a "reservoir cap" before the power tube plate node.

I don't have access to my data right now but think that 175-190 volts on 12AX7 plates was nice sweet spot for 5F2A build. Voltage data might still be here...

Cheers,
Chip


E.T.A. Trying different 6V6 tubes may be more productive before tube type switch. JJ vs. Tung Sol big difference in new tubes, especially at your voltage (TS better to my ears). NOS whole other world, depending on tube life left, etc. 
« Last Edit: July 07, 2015, 08:58:37 pm by Fresh_Start »
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Offline PRR

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Re: 5F2A Hybrid
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2015, 09:41:51 pm »
The 125ESE can be connected 97 different ways and impedances.

*What* impedance have you wired it for?

At 280V supply and ~~260V actual across the tube, 5K load and 45mA-50mA ought to be a happy condition, about 5 Watts output.

Offline dpm309

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Re: 5F2A Hybrid
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2015, 10:50:50 am »
I have a couple of old RCA 6L6GCs from an old 1977 Peavey Mace that still have some life in them. The amp even sounds better with the 6L6. Still a little fuzzy on the impedance calculations. I am using the green tap on the secondaries of the 125ESE for an 8 ohm load (assuming about 10K on the primary). Don't know if this is correct. Would the primary be closer to 5K? How would I calculate this? Have read several posts on this forum and am still a little confused. Since I will probably use the 6L6, I am going to make a few modifications like Big Daddy 6L6 champ. Might also replace the tone control with a bass and treble pots like Big Daddy's.

Offline shooter

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Re: 5F2A Hybrid
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2015, 11:30:06 am »
Quote
Would the primary be closer to 5K
Yup, maybe, what's your measured/target B+?
get a tube data sheet for the 6L6, the one I glanced at showed self bias, 300vdc plate, load about 4.5k.
Went Class C for efficiency

Offline dpm309

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Re: 5F2A Hybrid
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2015, 12:20:27 pm »
I am actually getting 280VDC on the B+ and plate so according to the 6L6GC (RCA) datasheet, the primary should be about 3.7K. This is closer to the 5K (125ESE diagram) so I should be using the yellow tap instead of the green one for an 8 ohm speaker. I have attached the diagram for the PT. Thanks for clearing that up.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2015, 04:22:38 pm by dpm309 »

Offline Crispy

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Re: 5F2A Hybrid
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2015, 09:08:30 pm »
I recently built a 5f2a and then converted it to use a 6L6GC (Svetlana/ "winged C" 30W). My B+ is 398V respective to ground, and about 360V pins 3-8, which gives me about 21W dissipation, which is a little cold for the Svetlana, maybe a little hot for a short bottle RCA, which I believe are rated for 19W max? My point in all this is that, at that voltage, you're in the right ballpark for a 6V6, but pretty cold for a 6L6, which is going to result in less headroom and crappy distortion. Maybe try a different 6V6. I have a JJ 6L6 that sounds like ass in my amp, but I'm keeping it in case the Svetlana should blow. But it's like 2 different amps. I don't think you're going to get that 6L6 to be happy in that voltage range. You could send it to me instead. :icon_biggrin:
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Offline PRR

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Re: 5F2A Hybrid
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2015, 04:06:41 pm »
Try to bring the tube up to 80mA or 90mA.

Bring the load way down, 5K or 2.5K. (For 8 Ohm speaker, Yel or Wht tap; go by ear.)

Assuming the higher current sags you down toward 260V-250V, and taking 25W safe Pdiss, you can run 90mA or so in the tube, Take off 20V for bias, there's 240V of ideal voltage swing and 90mA of ideal current swing. 240V/90mA is 2.67K guesstimated best load.

If you were running 500V and 50mA (25W Pdiss) then 500V/50mA would be 10K happy load. 350V would lead to 70mA and 5K happy load.

This is a gross approximation. Overdriven gitar does not always follow the rules. However I suspect your 10K was way-high for a hot moderate-voltage 6L6.

Offline dpm309

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Re: 5F2A Hybrid
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2015, 04:30:49 pm »
Finally got back to tweaking the circuit. Replaced the first stage  plate resistor with a 220k, replaced the cathode resistor with a 820 ohm and reduced the power tube cathode resistor to 100 ohm. Bias is at 73ma and I now get a decent amount of clean headroom with some nice breakup/overdrive at about 7. Also popped in a 5881 I had laying around got the same results with a little bit more low end. Seem to be getting closer to the sound I have been looking for. Next I am planning on modify the tone stack a bit to add separate treble and bass controls.
Thanks,

Offline dpm309

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Re: 5F2A Hybrid
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2015, 06:55:12 pm »
I am still not satisfied with the sound of this, so I decided to bite the bullet and got a champ PT. This will allow me to get the proper voltages to the tubes. Am planning on using a rectifier since I have an old Sovtek and a GE 5Y3GT lying around. Would a choke be beneficial? If so, what value should I get. Still leaning on building it like Big Daddy's 6L6 Champ which shows a choke. I have attached the schematic.


Thanks,
Dan

Offline shooter

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Re: 5F2A Hybrid
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2015, 07:56:20 pm »
Quote
Would a choke be beneficial

From what I see on the attached 5Y3 datasheet if you use a choke, that comes before a cap. 
Also the B+ seems higher?  500 vs 350 with a choke?
Went Class C for efficiency

Offline HotBluePlates

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Re: 5F2A Hybrid
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2015, 08:16:01 pm »
... Would a choke be beneficial? If so, what value should I get. Still leaning on building it like Big Daddy's 6L6 Champ which shows a choke. ...

Why does the schematic show a choke at all?

Most guitar amps use a single filter cap after the rectifier, which is then also attached to the output tube plates via the output transformer. Then again, most guitar amps are push-pull, and push-pull operation cancels much of the hum at that 1st filter cap node.

You don't have that in single-ended, and what a lot of folks here have found is that when they use a speaker with full reproduction down to a guitar's low E (80 Hz), they also get full reproduction of B+ hum (120Hz). We've found the solution is adding an extra stage of filtering before the original 1st filter cap; either C to ground and series R, or C to ground and series choke. But the B+ current of the entire amp gets pulled through that series-R or -L, and if you make the R big enough to get the same filtering effect as a choke the B+ voltage drops significantly.

So you use a choke to maintain the B+ voltage while still providing good filtering; the caps are only half the equation.

How big? Start with the current rating first. You were contemplating 6L6 earlier, don't know if you decided to go that route. PRR was talking as much as 70-90mA for the output tube plate, another 5-10mA seems reasonable for the screen, couple-mA for the preamp. Your choke might be rated as low as 70mA up to 100mA depending on your envisioned output tube. A 6V6 @ 350v B+ might only need ~35mA plus 5-10 for screens plus preamp, so 50mA rating is plenty adequate.

The current rating will dictate the available choke Henry-ratings, size and cost. 3-4H is probably a reasonable lower limit, especially since your caps are likely to be bigger than 8uF. You can go bigger to the extent space and budget allows.

From what I see on the attached 5Y3 datasheet if you use a choke, that comes before a cap.

DPM's posted schematic doesn't do what the data sheet does. The schematic shows a cap-to-ground right after the rectifier, so this is a "cap-input" arrangement. The data sheet info for cap-input would apply.

Also the B+ seems higher?  500 vs 350 with a choke?

If that cap-to-ground at the rectifier and before the choke were not there, then this would be a choke-input filter. Different results occur when you rectify a.c. and apply it to a choke-input power supply. Assuming zero voltage drop across the rectifier, a cap-input supply attempts to rectify to VRMS * 1.414, meaning the cap charges to the peak of the incoming rectified a.c. voltage. In a choke-input supply, that formula changes to VRMS * 0.9. That's because the choke is attempting to reduce the voltage/current variation coming out of the rectifier before it even gets to the cap.

That why you see a higher starting a.c. supply voltage going into the rectifier on the choke-input example, to achieve roughly the same output d.c. voltage.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2015, 08:26:39 pm by HotBluePlates »

Offline shooter

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Re: 5F2A Hybrid
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2015, 09:03:23 am »
Quote
"cap-input" arrangement
Thanks HBP, I was reading the datasheet as a one or the other, not both  :think1:

So with a choke-cap, (LC arraignment), the *output* of that would be the "A" node for the power tube? or would you add an RC then take 1st node?
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Offline HotBluePlates

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Re: 5F2A Hybrid
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2015, 09:56:41 am »
I don't understand the question.  :dontknow:

Offline Fresh_Start

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Re: 5F2A Hybrid
« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2015, 09:58:59 am »
Look at the 5F2 schematic:
http://el34world.com/charts/Schematics/files/fender/Fender_PRINCETON_5F2.pdf

I think that's what HBP had in mind.  "Reservoir cap", then choke, then filter cap for plate supply.  It's what I did with my 5F2-A variant and it worked well. Note: I did not tie screen grid to plate supply like 5F2 though - used small resistor and a third filter cap for screen grid node. Another C-R-C pi filter for the preamp tube plates.


Another advantage of the pi filter with a choke up front is that you can use smaller filter caps further down the power rail because of the improved filtering up front. So a 10uf cap would work fine for the screen grid and preamp plate nodes.


Finally, the 5F2 schematic shows you useful voltages (except for screen grid). You won't get loud and clean but you will get sweet to nasty tweed.
 
Cheers,
Chip
« Last Edit: September 14, 2015, 10:13:43 am by Fresh_Start »
Quote from: jjasilli
We have proven once again no plan survives contact with the enemy, or in this case, with the amp.

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Plan to be wrong about something.

Offline HotBluePlates

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Re: 5F2A Hybrid
« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2015, 10:18:15 am »
Yes, the 5F2. But what I was really talking about was the schematic already posted in this thread. 4 filter caps, but maybe the 5F2's 10kΩ between plate and screen nodes instead of the 1kΩ shown in the schematic in the post.

Offline shooter

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Re: 5F2A Hybrid
« Reply #20 on: September 14, 2015, 10:41:38 am »
Sorry, a pic is worth.......

That's what I was wondering, where the 1st voltage tap is taken for the OT/plate.
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Offline dpm309

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Re: 5F2A Hybrid
« Reply #21 on: September 14, 2015, 02:54:09 pm »
Thanks for all of information. Always learning something new on this forum. I am planning on using a 6L6 (might try a 5881 also) so I will use a 50mA (125C1A from AE). Any advantage of using a 10K instead of a 1K between the screen and plate nodes? Since I started this out as a 5F2A, I have only 3 filter stages (33, 8, and 8) so I will add a 4th filter cap (20-22 uf) before the choke and change the second one to 20uf. I'll leave in the 10uf caps for the screen and preamp nodes.


The amp is still in the breadboard stage (though I did build the turret board already) so these changes should not be a problem. Have a chassis and am now have to decide on what speaker to use and design a cabinet.

Dan

Offline sluckey

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Re: 5F2A Hybrid
« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2015, 04:09:28 pm »
Quote
I am planning on using a 6L6 (might try a 5881 also) so I will use a 50mA (125C1A from AE).
I think that 50mA is too light weight. I'd want a choke rated for 100mA or 125mA. Something like a Hammond 193B, 12H @ 100ma, DCR = 155Ω, or a Hammond 159P, 10H @ 125ma, DCR = 155Ω.
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Offline HotBluePlates

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Re: 5F2A Hybrid
« Reply #23 on: September 14, 2015, 10:02:16 pm »
Quote
I am planning on using a 6L6 (might try a 5881 also) so I will use a 50mA (125C1A from AE).
I think that 50mA is too light weight. I'd want a choke rated for 100mA or 125mA. ...

I agree with Sluckey. In my earlier post, I noted you might have 70-90mA just for the output tube plate (we don't know exactly what your B+ will be).

Any advantage of using a 10K instead of a 1K between the screen and plate nodes?

More filtering.

Say you have 5v of ripple at the plate supply node, at 120Hz given the full-wave rectifier. The 10kΩ forms a voltage divider with the 10uF cap. At 120Hz, the 10uF looks like 1/(2*Π*120Hz*0.000010F) = ~132Ω. Then ripple at the screen node for each resistor is:
  • 1kΩ:    5v * 132Ω/(1kΩ+132Ω)   =  58mV
  • 10kΩ:  5v * 132Ω/(10kΩ+132Ω) =  6.5mV

So the larger series decoupling resistor reduces power supply ripple more. Or you could use a larger filter cap. Or both.

Screen and preamp current draw should be fairly low, and this isn't a big class AB amp where you need to wring out every last fraction of a watt, or where screen current is expected to vary dramatically from idle to full power. Assuming you start north of 300vdc, you should have plenty of supply voltage left for your preamp.

Offline PRR

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Re: 5F2A Hybrid
« Reply #24 on: September 15, 2015, 12:30:33 am »
Choke Input is Iron-Age technology.

It was good economics when capacitors were expensive and chokes relatively cheap.

Choke-input has a serious flaw: if the load comes off the voltage on the first cap rises to 1.57 times the loaded voltage. Actually this was acceptable when filter-caps were oiled paper (they can take an overvoltage). It causes blow-ups when electrolytics and their fairly strict 450V limit came in.

Unless you are strange (not looking at anybody particular), use the Capacitor Input part of the data.

Offline dpm309

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Re: 5F2A Hybrid
« Reply #25 on: September 16, 2015, 01:32:33 pm »
Since I already have the choke on hand, can I still incorporate it into this design by maybe changing filter cap or resistor values etc. Or should I just forgo the choke. Will there be any effect to the sound? I still have this bread-boarded so I can easily make changes.
Thanks,
Dan

Offline Willabe

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Re: 5F2A Hybrid
« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2015, 02:30:07 pm »
Just put a filter cap to ground before the choke, like in Big Daddy's drawing you posted in reply #13.

So > cap > choke > cap = B+ node A/plate, then a series R (~1K or more) > cap = B+ node B/screen.

Go back and re-read what PRR and HBP wrote.  :icon_biggrin:
« Last Edit: September 16, 2015, 02:38:30 pm by Willabe »

Offline sluckey

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Re: 5F2A Hybrid
« Reply #27 on: September 16, 2015, 03:23:39 pm »
Since you already have it breadboarded it would be very easy to measure the actual current the amp will draw. Just put a 1Ω resistor between the 5Y3 and the first filter cap. If you have a STBY switch just put the resistor across the switch. Now measure the voltage drop across that resistor, multiply that times 1 and you have the actual current. Now use this current figure to determine if you should use your choke.

You said earlier that "so I will use a 50mA (125C1A from AE)". That 125C1A is rated for 90mA, not 50mA. If the actual measured current is less than or not too much higher than 100mA, I'd use it IAW BD's schematic. But if you have the smaller 125C3A choke rated for only 50mA, I would not use it.

OTOH, Fender sold a bunch of these amps and none of them ever had a choke in the circuit when they left the factory. They did have a cheap speaker that didn't reproduce the 120Hz hum very well. After all, it was a cheap entry level amp with a high dollar name that a frugal daddy could afford for his young aspiring musician.
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Offline HotBluePlates

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Re: 5F2A Hybrid
« Reply #28 on: September 17, 2015, 05:27:00 pm »
Since I already have the choke on hand, can I still incorporate it into this design ... Or should I just forgo the choke. Will there be any effect to the sound?

*If* you drew much-too-much current through a filter choke, it will saturate. At that point, inductance drops to zero and stops filtering.

If this were a choke-input power supply, then same thing happens as when PRR noted, "... the voltage on the first cap rises to 1.57 times the [filtered] voltage. Anyway, tht doesn't apply to your setup because you're looking at a cap-input setup.

... OTOH, Fender sold a bunch of these amps and none of them ever had a choke in the circuit when they left the factory. They did have a cheap speaker that didn't reproduce the 120Hz hum very well. ...

Well, the 5F2 did...  :laugh: But now I wonder if a designer (Leo or whoever) came up with the arrangement with a better-quality speaker to reduce hum, and the choke was later dropped because they found it wasn't necessary with the actual production speaker.

I was gonna say I once had a 1954 5B2 Princeton and don't recall any hum issues, but just noticed for the first time it has a C-R-C arrangement before the plate node.

Offline dpm309

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Re: 5F2A Hybrid
« Reply #29 on: September 19, 2015, 01:48:23 pm »
I actually have both chokes, 125C1A and 125C3A that I had on hand for future builds. To measure the voltage drop, should I have the choke installed (125C1A) as per the schematic or just bridge the rail between the standby switch and the "A" node cap? Also, should I remove the preamp and power tubes? Was going to hook up the light limiter before I turn on the power switch to make sure I don't have any shorts, etc on the breadboard.

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Re: 5F2A Hybrid
« Reply #30 on: September 19, 2015, 02:41:52 pm »
Quote
To measure the voltage drop
with no-load there probably won't be a voltage drop, just proves you have no major shorts.  I don't have a LL so I ALWAYS measure ohms between final B+ tap and ground, looking for many thousand of ohms. then a no-tube power-up, if no smoke, tubes with 2 meters and a scope, both channels.  Then you will have your *working* voltage drop across whatever you're checking.
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Offline DummyLoad

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Re: 5F2A Hybrid
« Reply #31 on: September 19, 2015, 02:59:42 pm »
isn't this simply a 5E1 champ with a tone stack?


use the twin/super choke (4H 90mA).


--pete

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Re: 5F2A Hybrid
« Reply #32 on: September 19, 2015, 03:49:47 pm »
Checked the voltage drop and it was 64mA. Installed the 125C1A (twin/super) and fired up the amp. I am now getting nice clean headroom and the tone is a lot closer to what I was looking for.
Voltages: Pin 8 Rectifier 370VDC, B+ 362, B+1 357, B+2 307.
12AX7: Pin 1 and 6 195, Pin 3 and 8 1.7.  6L6GC: Pin 1 and 8 27VDC, Pin 3 356, and Pin 4 355.
Measured the bias at 58mA which might be a little cold but I can adjust that later. Next step is modify the tonestack by adding a bass and treble similar to BD's schematic.
Thanks again for all of your help and will report on any future progress on my 5F2A hybrid.
Dan

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Re: 5F2A Hybrid
« Reply #33 on: September 19, 2015, 08:01:59 pm »
Quote
58mA
the data sheet I was looking at for typical is 54mA, so I'd say you're close.  do the max plate power calcs to see where you are, I built a PSE running about 110% of max plate power, my B+ was about noted at 358 and my cathode R was 200(400 single tube) didn't note K volts/current, just 110% max - fwiw
Went Class C for efficiency

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Re: 5F2A Hybrid
« Reply #34 on: October 05, 2015, 02:37:20 pm »
I have modified the tone stack by adding a bass and treble so that it matches BD 6L6 Champ. Getting a lot more tonal variation but have the bass turned up to get maximum volume. The bass control sort of acts like volume control. Is this typical with this tone stack? 

Also experimenting with a couple of other rectifier tubes, a big bottle GE 5R4GA and a Sovtek 5AR4. The 5R4 adds about 15 VDC to the B+ and the 5AR4 adds 47 more VDC (422). With the 5AR4, I am getting 409 VDC on the 6L6 plate. Sound and tone wise, I like the 5AR4. Checked the bias with the 5AR4 and am getting 68ma. Is this too hot for the 6L6?


Dan
« Last Edit: October 05, 2015, 04:59:07 pm by dpm309 »

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Re: 5F2A Hybrid
« Reply #35 on: October 05, 2015, 05:07:27 pm »
Quote
Is this too hot
what's your bias - cathode volts?   take 409-cathode volts * .068, then compare to max plate dissipation on tube data sheet for type of 6L6 you're using.  Class A I usually run between 90 and 110% of max dissipation


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Re: 5F2A Hybrid
« Reply #36 on: October 05, 2015, 06:16:38 pm »
409 * 68mA = 27.8 watts. yours is dissipating less since you're not considering cathode voltage. measure cathode voltage, subtract the cathode voltage from plate then multiply by 68mA.


your Va-Vk result will be less than 409V, so you're OK as is if you're using a 6L6GC, which is a 35 watt tube.


--pete

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Re: 5F2A Hybrid
« Reply #37 on: October 05, 2015, 06:49:53 pm »
My cathode voltage is 32 so 409-32 =377*.068 = 25.6 which is less than the max plate dissipation of 30 watts for this tube. Looks like I should be alright. I really like the results I am getting using the 5AR4. I have plenty of clean headroom and a great tone, though I might tweak the tone stack a bit. Getting plenty of volume out of this and am planning on using this for my main gigging amp since we mike everything into the sound system (Going for compact and lightweight). Next I need to determine what speaker to use. In the past, I have not been happy with a single 10" but have a few on hand that I will experiment with. I am currently running this through my Tweed Deluxe cabinet with a 12" Jensen P12Q which sounds great by the way.


Any suggestions on a 10" speaker?
Dan

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Re: 5F2A Hybrid
« Reply #38 on: October 07, 2015, 01:42:13 pm »
Swapped the JJ 12AX7S with a Tungsol 12AX7 which gives me a little more gain and bottom end. Found out what was causing the bass control to act like a volume control. There is a discrepancy between BD 6L6 layout and schematic. The layout shows the .047 cap being connected to lug 2 (wiper) and the schematic shows it connected to lug 3 like typical fender tone stacks. Now the treble and bass controls work normally but seems like I lost a little volume but have a lot cleaner tone when turned up past about 5 or 6.


Still trying to tame the treble a bit.  Using the tone stack calculator, changing the bass cap only to .022 (leaving the treble cap at 0.1) increases the bass somewhat. Also what is the purpose of the 47p cap on the volume control?


Dan

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Re: 5F2A Hybrid
« Reply #39 on: October 07, 2015, 03:42:52 pm »
...Also what is the purpose of the 47p cap on the volume control?


Make the amp brighter when you turn the volume down from maximum.

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Re: 5F2A Hybrid
« Reply #40 on: October 14, 2015, 11:43:53 am »
Added a mid pot to the tone stack and am now getting a nice mid boost which also seems to help tame the treble while adding some more bottom end. I used a 50K linear since I did not have any 25k or 50k audio pots on hand. Very happy with the results so I am now going to stuff all of this into a 13.5 x 5 x 2 Hammond chassis and start designing the combo cabinet for this. I am leaning towards a 12" speaker in this since I have not had good luck with a single 10" in an SE amp. Has anyone had any luck with 10" speakers in a 5F2A? Been looking at Weber's and WGS website for suggestions.

 


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