Pistols!

[tubenit]

My best friend has still not gotten around to buying a pistol after 2 yrs of shooting with me.  (however, he is a good shot and is in market for one)

So,  last time we shot .......... we rented several .380's and they were OK.  And so , he is still renting and trying out 9mm now. 

Today, we rented and shot these in comparison  (we shot the same ammo in all guns 115 grain  9mm):

CZ-75B    Nicest semi-auto I've ever shot & I was more accurate with it then my own FNX-9.  Heavier gun, very little recoil.  Very accurate
               for myself and my friend.  We both shot best with it.  Trigger pull was a little on the too light side. Not a real expensive gun. It
               did have a safety.  This model did not have the de-cock which is a feature I really like.  We had some very tight groupings with
               this gun for not ever having fired it before.  I would like it better then my FNX-9 IF I had the de-cock version. The sight on it
               was too dark and would need replacing in my opinion as well as my friend's opinion. My friend admitted shooting several shots
               before he was "ready" because of how light the trigger pull was.  What a wonderful weapon!!

FNX-9     This is my own gun.  I shot next to best with it.  My friend did not shoot as well with it.  More recoil then the CZ. It has de-cock
              and safety.  When I am in my "zone",  I typically will group 4 of 5 shots with an area the size of my palm at 21 feet.

H&K VP-9    I liked the way this gun felt in my hand.  It had a nice sight on it.  I shot reasonably well with it.  Recoil was about the same
                  as my FNX-9.  Gun seemed very balanced in my hand. Striker fire.  This may have had the nicest feel in my hand of them all?

Sig Sauer P 229   This gun felt good also.  We shot a striker fire one.  I did not shoot very well with it,  however, my friend got some amazing
                          groupings with this gun where he would have 4-5 shots grouped inside a 3" circle at 25 feet out.  Recoil was about the same
                          as the other pistols except the CZ which was less recoil.  I shot a Sig 226 9mm of my son's and did somewhat better with it.

Glock 19     This gun was so awful that I am honestly wondering if there was something wrong with the one we rented?  So please take this
                  review with a grain of salt.  Ironically, I've never gotten around to shooting a Glock before.  So, I am not sure what they are
                  supposed to "feel" like.  It had dramatically more recoil.  It had the oddest  recoil I've ever experienced.  It was stricker fire.
                  The recoil was difficult to describe .......... it was sort of springy, boingy, spongey and loud. Almost like the gun bounced back
                  from some type of spring action as much as gunpowder recoil?   It was horribly inaccurate compared to all the other pistols. Not
                  even in the ballpark of being useful for myself or my friend. The gun was ridiculously light weight. The groupings were so bad
                  that it would not even be appropriate to call them groupings.  It had no safety or de-cock.   2nd worst gun of any type that I've
                  ever fired.    It was so odd in the boingey recoil that there "has to be" something wrong with it (although I don't know if that is
                  true) ?  Unfortunately, the experience was so negative, that I will never consider a Glock in the future.

We had limited time and ammo, so the impressions were based on each of us shooting 10-20 shells in most of these except the CZ where we
shot more then that. 

Hands down ............ I really really liked the CZ!   With respect, Jeff

PS:  My most fun and favorite is still my Ruger .357 revolver shooting .38 special shells.  Less recoil.  Most accurate. Dependable.

[John]

The CZ is very well regarded by just about everyone, a really good value for the money. The trigger may have been "smoothed up", it's pretty unusual for stock triggers to be that light. A friend of mine has a stock CZ in 9mm and used to shoot matches with it.


The Glock 19... I think with Glocks you either love 'em or hate 'em. I love mine. However, they do sit in the hand differently and IMO take some getting used to to shoot accurately. The recoil you describe doesn't sound like mine. Since these are rentals, it's safe to assume they've been messed with. For whatever reason, some guys just have to take a perfect gun, stock, and keep improving it till it's basically unuseable. Glocks seem to suffer from that the most, I think because they are pretty easy to do that with. Sounds like someone put in a different recoil spring. They have "double springs" to replace the stock spring. If someone was shooting lead (unplated) ammo through it that could explain the lack of accuracy too.


I got mine to carry, and wanted something simple and reliable which it's been. No longer carry. For recreational shooting I like my cap n ball black powder more than anything.

[HotBluePlates]

Glock 19     This gun was so awful that I am honestly wondering if there was something wrong with the one we rented?

I can't speak to the recoil feel. I've only shot a Glock once that I can remember, and the angle of the grip to the rest of the frame is what typically messes people up. The steeper angle compared to other guns means you really have to be used to a Glock to get your "personal normal" level of accuracy. I don't know for sure, but I suspect the steeper angle also makes shot placement errors due to "palming" more severe.


By "palming" (maybe the wrong word), I mean when your grip tightens as you pull the trigger, such that you push forward slightly with the heel of your palm. When you add this kind of movement to expecting to feel your hand closer to 90-degrees to the plane of the shot, you have a good chance of shooting high (possibly along with pulling to one side or the other).


Needless to say, your accuracy can suffer when you shoot something with significantly different geometry or sights than the gun you're used to shooting.

[EKDENTON]

I had the same problem with a Ruger that you had with the Glock 19 on the grouping. I was all over the target.  I bought my wife a Glock 32 .40cal. It is a very accurate gun. I love the accuracy of that gun however like you I don't feel very good about the only safety being on the trigger. A woman at our range taking the concealed carry class shot herself in the leg with a Glock because her finger was inside the trigger guard when she holstered the gun.

I bought myself a Springfield XD .40cal and like it a lot. I have a 9mm Berretta also but I prefer a .40 for self defense (if a shotgun is not handy).

[John]

A woman at our range taking the concealed carry class shot herself in the leg with a Glock because her finger was inside the trigger guard when she holstered the gun.

I feel bad for her. But, if she didn't even know how to holster a gun safely, she probably wouldn't have kicked a safety on anyway.

[DummyLoad]

glock 20 10mm auto. best all-around round.

--pete

[MoparWade]

Sorry, couldn't pass up this opportunity.

[EKDENTON]

haha what's level 5 for?

[SILVERGUN]

CZ-75B    Nicest semi-auto I've ever shot & I was more accurate with it then my own FNX-9.  Heavier gun, very little recoil.  Very accurate

.......  Hands down ............ I really really liked the CZ!   With respect, Jeff

I realize this is an old thread but....
When I was in the market, I took the same approach and tried a bunch of different .380 + 9mm models.
I almost wound up with the SIGp229 because of what I perceived as a smooth recoil and an overall balanced feel.
That was, until I got my hands on a Berretta 84fs, which is a slightly scaled down version of their popular model 92....the first time I shot it I knew it was a keeper.
 
I believe that there is something to the weight reduction technique of the "hollowed out" top of the slide which leads to an overall better balanced feel and much less jumpy recoil. (see pic where top of barrel is exposed). That combined with an alloy frame seems to me to be the best recipe for "balance".
I have had a few others shoot this gun and they all agree how easy it is to hold on target while ripping through a magazine.
 
At the time I purchased it back in the 90's it was considered "compact", but with the 2000's came the sub-compacts and that's what I wound up carrying. (KelTec. 380 - and that thing just wants to jump out of your hand, but fits easily in my front pocket with no holster)
 
When I'm looking to shoot something fun and accurate at the range it's an easy choice to take the Beretta. I recently tried my sister's Glock 19 and her boyfriends S+W - M+P9 and they just don't compare.
Sure, the .380 load is lighter, but the difference in the groupings was disturbing.
 
I don't think you get the same balanced feel with the polymer/fiberglass frame coupled to an alloy slide, and I really think the hollowed out slide is ingenious.
When I first bought it I questioned it, but now it makes sense to me.

[shooter]

Ok, I have all the long guns I need..., never could shoot a pistol, time to learn.
Picked this up the day SCOTUS ruled in favor of "Shall not be infringed"


Took 200 rounds just to find a pattern 
moved to the 10yrd marker today

[JPK]

I love the accuracy of that gun however like you I don't feel very good about the only safety being on the trigger. A woman at our range taking the concealed carry class shot herself in the leg with a Glock because her finger was inside the trigger guard when she holstered the gun.

They probably didn't get to the part where you only have your finger inside the trigger guard when it's time to shoot. Not the gun's fault. It's never the gun's fault.