Hello and help!

[ratgon]

Hi all! I just joined the forums a couple days ago and tacked on a question at the end. After a nice welcome it was suggested I start a new thread here for more help.
I just became obsessed with wanting to learn about building and designing tube amps. I've been making music my whole life but all of a sudden I became fascinated by making the beautiful machines that I've been using forever

I started with building both kits offered at guytronix.com. Great amps and amazing help from Rich who runs the site. Then I tried my hand at an 18watt Marshall combo clone from Tubedepot.com. All three amps fired up perfectly on each first attempt after initial voltage checking etc.

Those led me here. So far I've built the 5f1 then the 5f2! And last night finished a 5e3. In all cases I just bought the turret or eyelet board and whatever parts and tubes I didn't already have from the recommended list and all trannies were Classic
tone from Triode Electronics.

Here's the deal. I can't get any of them to make any sort of sound at all. Nothing. No hum no signal not anything. Just pure silence. Ived gone through most of the target shooting suggestions. I rebuilt the 5f2 completely. Still, absolutely nothing. I'm flummoxed. I must be making the same idiotic most mistake but can not for the life of me tell what it might be. I'm
Building straight from the layout and schematic following all the suggested order of construction. It's almost paranormal at this point. They all fire up perfectly with all voltages checking out perfectly but are dead silent using a guitar and speaker that worked perfectly for another amps just moments ago

Thanks for reading all of this. Any ideas? I appreciate the help.

[Shack]

im thinking that it is something simple.....these guys will help if you can show them what you have so far

[Paul1453]

"The sound of Silence" is a cool song.   

But after working hard on building an amp, it's not the sound we want to hear.   

[ratgon]

I'm sure you're right. And once I get off work I'll happily show anyone whatever they'd like to see but with the exception of some of the color choices of wire I built them all exactly from the layout illustrations. I mean, that's all I really had to go on. I had/have mods in mind fr them but shared to get them working in their original state first. Thank you.

[pompeiisneaks]

If you get some high rez photos of the amps, and schematics, as well as layout diagrams people here have some pretty sharp eyes and can usually see things that could be wrong.  Another howto from the site that lets you carefully go through every part of the circuit can be found here: http://el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=17701.0  (If you have layout diagrams for these amps, that is).

I'm repeating all this because that's what they asked me to do as well, it helps to visually go over all parts and ensure nothing is missing.

~Phil

[ratgon]

Great! I appreciate any and all suggestions and I'll try them all. At this point only the 5e3 is in its just built condition. I'll get up some hi RES shots tonight and check out that link. The schematic and layouts are exactly from the Reg Hoffman site for each circuit. I'm sure the photos will reveal some classic rookie errors

Thanks again.

[Paul1453]

Don't worry, this happens to us all from time to time.

I have a circuit I just put together on my breadboard that is giving me the silent treatment, too.   

If the voltages are all good, it is likely a problem in the signal path.  Path is open or connected to ground somewhere.   

[PRR]

> dead silent using a guitar and speaker that worked

Jacks have Tip and Sleeve.

Sometimes a Switch too.

Over on a pedal-forum, reversing T and S is the #4 most-popular error, and can result in NO sound. For your case, either guitar end or speaker end.

[Willabe]

Click on the link at the very bottom of my post for a great and easy way to double check a new build for wiring errors. 

[pompeiisneaks]

Click on the link at the very bottom of my post for a great and easy way to double check a new build for wiring errors. 

Oh sure Willabe, make it look like I didn't say that already :)

I learned the hard way this technique is outstanding.  My first build worked fine minus some hum but my current build did some really odd things until I found an error in my schematic due to going over this.  (my layout was actually right, but my schematic was wrong :D)

[ratgon]

I just received the correct transformer bundle from Triode that the post office has been telling me they delivered a week ago. The ones in there now would work but certainly not ideal. I'll rebuild it with the new trannies and I'll go through all the checklist stuff as well. Then I'll post some pics and voltages.

Thanks again

[Willabe]

Oh sure Willabe, make it look like I didn't say that already :)

Sorry didn't see you posted that already. 

[sluckey]

Three recently built amps that all have zero sound. This most likely is the same mistake in all amps. Misunderstanding how to wire phone jacks that have a switch contact has to be high on the suspect list. Take a close look at those jacks, especially the speaker jack, even closer if you have two speaker jacks. Hi rez close up pics of your jacks will help us determine if they are wired correctly, but if you used switchcraft jacks, just compare to Hoffman's drawing.

A missing ground connection is another suspect, but that usually results in a bad voltage reading.

all voltages checking out perfectly

What are you basing that statement on? Hoffman doesn't list any voltages with his amps.

[ratgon]

Sluckey....you're absolutely right. Especially about the "perfect" voltages. What was I basing them on? Late night, exhausted hope. That's about as honest as I can get. And you've just got to be right about the issue residing in either the input or output wiring configure. I'll admit that it confuses the hell outta me. So I'm hoping to have another go at it tonight to the point that I can at least post some pics for you all to at least see what I'm doing. Can I assume that I can use Hoffmans dual input diagram simply twice as I go about the four inputs of the 5e3? And honestly the output is throwing me a loop as well. Ultimately I'm just confused as to the nomenclature of the pins of the jacks he's using. But I'll keep at it. I've been obsessed with this whole endeavor for 5 months now. I learn a little something every day.

Thanks again.

[ratgon]

By the way, I guess I don't even know how to post pics here. I've posted several times and it just occurred to me I see none of them. So, how do I post pics. I've been simply adding as attachments but that doesn't seem to be working.

Thanks yet again!

[sluckey]

Can I assume that I can use Hoffmans dual input diagram simply twice as I go about the four inputs of the 5e3?

yes

Look at this page. There is a very clear pic and explanation of wiring Fender style jacks. Scroll down a bit...

     http://el34world.com/charts/CommonHookups.htm

So, how do I post pics. I've been simply adding as attachments but that doesn't seem to be working.

That's how you do it. Read the info about allowed file types and size restrictions below the attach box.

[Paul1453]

I figured out why my circuit was giving me the silent treatment.   

My output jack was wired incorrectly, you might want to check that on yours too.

My tip was supposed to be grounded without a plug in it.  Well it wasn't.

That also resulted in no complete circuit when the plug was inserted.

Adding the proper grounding completed the OTs output circuit and fixed the problem. 

[mresistor]

There's a stickey on how to post pics http://el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=14521


but I usually host mine  on photobucket then post the image url using the image url button.

[Shack]

im putting my pics on my computer and then using this site to resize so I can post them

http://www.picresize.com/

[ratgon]

Thanks for those last couple of posts. In all my banging around in there I snapped the leads to the big 10w power resistor so I need that to keep going. But don't worry, I just posted about a different project and it's issues. And this one involves smoke!

[ratgon]

Okay, well I think I at least figured out how to post images. For what it's worth. the board will accept .jpg but not .jpeg.

Anyway, here's an image of how I have my output connected. I have the green from the OT and the red line which is the neg feedback on the left lug and the black common lead from the OT on the right. The jack does not have the isolating washers. It seems it has to be something here or else I've built an amp with absolute zero noise which seems unlikely.

If. I've screwed up here, I've likely screwed up the input jacks as well. I'll post a pic of those if that would interest anyone. I mean, more interesting than I'm sure this thread is to all of you already.

Again, thanks for the help.

[TIMBO]

Hey ratgon, I'm sad to say you have had a major stuffup, but don't worry we have all had them and they were just sitting right there in front of us and we couldn't see it.
The green/red should be connected the lug that has the black and the black should be connected the lug that has the green/red.
Your black is your ground and so is connected to the sleeve on your jack.
The green/red is connected to the tip of the jack.
Check that your input jacks are connected properly.

[ratgon]

Timbo! Thank you! I'm gonna swap that right now and check the inputs. Can you tell me for future reference which logs or which in reference to the letters used here?

I'll swap and post a shot of the input which I'm sure is a train wreck at the moment.

By the way, my best friend growing up was named Timbo.

Thanks again
 

[ratgon]

Thanks again....here's some shots of the input section. and it's only half of it at the moment to boot.

Thanks for taking a look.

[ratgon]

By the way, I swapped the output lugs and at least I can hear some high pitched squeal as I turn the volume up. It's a start!

[TIMBO]

This might give you an idea of how the inputs are wired.
Are the red/blue wires connected to ground??

[ratgon]

Timbo....yes. The Reds connect over to the volume pot and the onto the bus ground. The blue connects to a ground on the board. The red wires are my "interpretation" the blue follows Goug's champ layout straight up

[TIMBO]

OOPS, forgot the link http://music-electronics-forum.com/t13912/

[pompeiisneaks]

I always love off site references that have pictures from hoffman's sites :)

~Phil