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Hoffman Amps Forum image Author Topic: What tube is this?  (Read 5931 times)

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Offline uki

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What tube is this?
« on: May 23, 2016, 06:05:49 pm »
Hey guys !

Does anyone recognize this tube ? It is octal, RCA made in USA, the print in the glass is gone, the only hint is in the base is the code 58ex8.  What do you guys think ?
« Last Edit: May 23, 2016, 06:58:56 pm by uki »
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Offline uki

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Re: What tube is this?
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2016, 07:12:21 pm »
I think I've find what it is!
Here: https://reverb.com/item/1517398-nos-rca-usa-6k6gt-black-ribbed-plate-get-vacuum-tube-100

Quote
Tube Type / Number: 6K6GT
Actual Brand*: RCA
Printed Brand: RCA
Quantity of Tubes: Single
Plate Construction: Black Ribbed
Getter Construction: Bottom []
Country of Manufacture: USA
Visible Date Codes: 58EX8

Could anyone confirm this please ?

Thanks
« Last Edit: June 16, 2016, 05:03:44 pm by uki »
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Offline Paul1453

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Re: What tube is this?
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2016, 07:20:15 pm »
Not quite the same looking tubes as I get when I do a Google image search for 6K6GT.

Those tend to look more like what a 6V6GT does.

Yours looks more like a dual triode to me.

Maybe it is, but I would keep searching.   :dontknow:

Offline Paul1453

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Re: What tube is this?
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2016, 07:26:11 pm »
Looks more like a 6SN7 to me.

Search:

6SN7 octal tube dual triode

select images and see what you think.

Offline PRR

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Re: What tube is this?
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2016, 08:26:36 pm »
That's no sort of 6K6 or 6V6. I agree "dual triode" is a better bet.

You can find the heater pins with ohm-meter. Power-up on 6V. If it looks bright, it could be a 5V version though those are rare. If dim, it could be a 12V job.

Most dual triodes have the same pinout. Power-up with values from 6SN7 datasheet. If Vp, Vgk, and Ik are near the sheet values, it is near a 6SN7. If not, try 6SC7 or 6SL7.

Offline kagliostro

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Re: What tube is this?
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2016, 03:01:13 am »
The world is a nice place if there is health and there are friends

Offline TIMBO

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Re: What tube is this?
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2016, 05:14:51 am »
Here's something you can try............
Scroll down to reply #9


Offline NewYorker

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Re: What tube is this?
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2016, 08:30:04 am »
I'm guessing 6SN7 as well.  I have a couple 6SN7 GT's (branded Stromberg Carlson) and one RCA 6SN7 GTB (later than yours, I think) that resemble yours, so far as the plate structure goes.

Ed

Offline Ed_Chambley

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Re: What tube is this?
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2016, 10:13:39 am »
If you put a tube that has lost its print in the freezer and let it frost when you take it out a lot of the time you can see where the ink used to be and read the number.  Give it a try, I have had it work the majority of the time.  Be patient and leave it in there for about 30 minutes.

Offline eleventeen

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Re: What tube is this?
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2016, 12:12:19 pm »
6SN7, 6SL7, could of course also be 12SN7 or 12SL7.


Best guess and most probable guess: 6SN7.


It's definitely not a 6K6 which more or less resembles a 6V6.


It's definitely a dual triode of some sort.

Offline kagliostro

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Re: What tube is this?
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2016, 02:06:33 pm »
Quote
If you put a tube that has lost its print in the freezer ..............

This is new to me, I'll give a try when necessary

Thanks for sharing

Franco
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Offline sluckey

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Re: What tube is this?
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2016, 02:15:09 pm »
Better put a sticky note on the refrigerator so you'll remember.   :laugh:
A schematic, layout, and hi-rez pics are very useful for troubleshooting your amp. Don't wait to be asked. JUST DO IT!

Offline xm52

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Re: What tube is this?
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2016, 03:14:59 pm »
http://www.tubemongerlib.com/ is useful when trying to identify tubes.

Offline Paul1453

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Re: What tube is this?
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2016, 03:24:45 pm »
Copied the link.   :worthy1:

Not a ton of tubes in their database, but the 6SN7 definitely is.  :icon_biggrin:

Offline Paul1453

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Re: What tube is this?
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2016, 03:29:32 pm »
Uki,

It also has a listing for the other tube you were asking about.

I'm pretty sure this is what you have.  Take a look and see what you think.

http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/v/EF86/

Offline uki

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Re: What tube is this?
« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2016, 02:16:36 pm »
Thanks guys!

I been looking at several pictures and I'm convinced this is a 6SN7 and it is probably a GT, looks like exactly the ones in these links:
http://guide.alibaba.com/shop/new-original-100-rca-6sn7-6h8c-6n8p-5692-cv181-tube_5598972.html
http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649051108-for_sale_rca_6sn7_gta_blackplates_the_swiss_chocolate_of_6sn7s/images/554743/
http://fjb.m.kaskus.co.id/product/5139b5817c1243d260000006/jual-tabung-rca-6sn7-clear-top

The trick with the freezer didn't work, I guess the print was way decayed to get a reading, there is only a couple of dots left in the print or at least is what it looks like.

 

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Offline HotBluePlates

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Re: What tube is this?
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2016, 07:34:20 pm »
... Most dual triodes have the same pinout. Power-up with values from 6SN7 datasheet. If Vp, Vgk, and Ik are near the sheet values, it is near a 6SN7. If not, try [values for] 6SC7 or 6SL7.

That's your definitive answer.

I have had 12A_7 tubes which looked like one type, but on test in a tube tester I figured out they were a different type. External appearance will only get you so far; you'll have to do an in-circuit test to establish what the unknown tube is.

Offline Ed_Chambley

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Re: What tube is this?
« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2016, 09:23:36 am »
Better put a sticky note on the refrigerator so you'll remember.   :laugh:
Doesn't matter if you forget, it will become cryogenic treated and become worth more! :laugh:


Seriously a joke guys, but the do sell tubes that have been frozen.  I asked a seller of these tubes what is the difference and he said nothing, he just had it done because some people were requesting it.  The word is it changed the structure of the metal and the tube is not as harsh.


I am calling Bullhockey.


I am serious about the frost on the glass tho.  Whenever I buy a bag of pulls the best tubes like the Black Plate RCA 50's, which I really like will show the number more often than not.  It works because the ink they use etches the glass slightly which makes the light reflect differently.  If you are like make sure your have a LOT of light and I am using 5X readers.

Offline Ritchie200

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Re: What tube is this?
« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2016, 11:36:35 pm »
What do you do if you need a lot of light and already use 5x readers normally? :dontknow: :icon_biggrin:

I think we covered this cryo thing a few years ago.  Years ago when I was designing and building stamping dies, we would send out certain tool steel for cryo treatment.  For precision dies with clearances smaller than .0005" it made a huge difference as it stabilized the metal after machining - much more so than normal heat treat and draws.  Believe it or not, hard steel will creep.  The carbon crystal structure is altered in the cryo process from austenite to martensite - a much more stable orientation.  Finish grind/EDM and you are good to go.  I CAN NOT imagine that this treatment would have any impact on tube performance.  Component spacing is not that critical and I cant imagine it would change any conductance characteristics. Plus, operating temps inside the tube would probably negate and reverse any structural change.  JMHO.

Jim

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Offline mresistor

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Re: What tube is this?
« Reply #19 on: May 27, 2016, 11:00:19 am »
  I CAN NOT imagine that this treatment would have any impact on tube performance.
Jim


It quite possibly would have a negative impact on the tube.


http://www.effectrode.com/cryogenic-treatment-tubes-engineers-perspective/

Offline PRR

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Re: What tube is this?
« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2016, 04:38:54 pm »
Way off-base: The Allison engine (boat, blimp, and many WWII fighter planes) had sleeved cylinders. They had to be TIGHT. The sleeves were ground a hair bigger than the hole in the head (no head gasket!). You put the head in the oven and the sleeves in a bucket of Dry Ice and lighter fluid. When all was warm/cold, the sleeves could be set in the head by hand. So in effect the sleeves were "Cryo".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allison_Engine_Company#/media/File:Allison_1710-115_V12_Aircraft_engine.jpg

I actually have never heard an Allison in person (boat-racers hoard them) to know if it helps the sound.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2016, 04:44:13 pm by PRR »

Offline Ritchie200

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Re: What tube is this?
« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2016, 06:36:46 pm »
Way Way off base...  I like how VSR (vibratory stress relief...no I'm not going there :icon_biggrin: ) was discovered by the mill metallurgists when the engine castings they stacked out closest to the busy train track lasted longer and were more dimensionally stable than the ones stacked further away.


Jim - keeper of useless knowledge...

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Offline drgonzonm

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Re: What tube is this?
« Reply #22 on: June 03, 2016, 07:18:03 pm »
A couple of comments regarding metals, and the effects temperature on crystal structure, and the possibility of bull hockiness. 

There are metals out there whose properties are cryogenic temperature sensitive.  Iron/steel is one, as is tin and many others.  It would not surprise me that many of the metals used in tubes are will change crystal structure when held at low temperatures,  (I am not sure if your freezer qualifies for low temperatures other than maybe iron and tin ).

Do a search for "tin disease".  You will find that tin changes crystal structure at common temperatures.  Thus, a pipe organ and its pipes needs to be in a building where temperatures do not fall to freezing point of water.  Given the position of Lead on the periodic table to Tin, I would say our friend Pb, may be also be subject to a "Lead disease"
do a search for "liberty ships", and you might find these WWII era ships had a bad habit of splitting in cold waters of the north Atlantic.  the iron/steel went from a ductile to brittle fracture mode, so stress at rivet holes would result in catastrophic failure. 
If you look at how tubes are made, tubes and the metals are subjected to high temperatures to degas the components.  Are these temperatures high enough to change the crystal structure of the metals.  Most likely.  Upon cooling, will some of these metals retain metastable crystal structures. Most likely.  (Need to look at the ttt diagrams, (time temperature transformation).

It is my understanding that under the Reagan era, It was thought, one could transport weapons grade material by rail. The propensity of steel shells to go from ductile to brittle fracture modes, derailed the idea.   

Are tubes operated at temperatures high enough to modify those metastable crystal structures.  again one would have look at TTT diagrams to determine the changes. 

What happens at cryogenic temperatures?  will there be crystal structure changes?.  Again, one needs to find TTT diagrams for those tube metals. I would say this is a likely case.  When I was studying metallurgy almost a half a century ago, the TTT diagrams for cryogenic temperatures were extremely rare.  I would look to ASTM publications. (likely only available at those universities where material science is taught). 

Is it really bullhockey?  No, can it be bullhockey? Of course, if someone purposely wants to miss lead. 

Lacking cryogenic TTT diagrams, If you have a metal whose crystal structure changes from room temperature to melting, I would suspect, the metal might be subject to crystal structure changes upon cooling. 

best regards.


Offline yamahajohn

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Re: What tube is this?
« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2016, 08:20:00 pm »
i say first one looks like 6sl7 second looks like 6w6 just a guess

Offline uki

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Re: What tube is this?
« Reply #24 on: July 08, 2016, 09:22:15 pm »
i say first one looks like 6sl7 second looks like 6w6 just a guess

Both tubes are the same tube !!  :icon_biggrin:
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Offline HotBluePlates

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Re: What tube is this?
« Reply #25 on: July 08, 2016, 10:44:02 pm »
Did you ever put it in a tube tester or an amp circuit to figure out what it is?

I ask because some versions of the 6SL7 and 6SN7 look exactly alike, but the 6SN7 is much lower gain. It's the same as having a 5751 and a 12AU7 which look alike, but the 12AU7 has much lower gain in-circuit.

That's the only way you'll know for sure.

Offline uki

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Re: What tube is this?
« Reply #26 on: July 08, 2016, 10:49:16 pm »
Did you ever put it in a tube tester or an amp circuit to figure out what it is?

I ask because some versions of the 6SL7 and 6SN7 look exactly alike, but the 6SN7 is much lower gain. It's the same as having a 5751 and a 12AU7 which look alike, but the 12AU7 has much lower gain in-circuit.

That's the only way you'll know for sure.

Haven't got into testing the tube yet, I don't have a tester or circuit to do it and... well I'm not so sure about how to do it, but eventually I will check this out, working on the "Plexi 50" at the moment. But I've been thinking to build some amp with those tubes in the future. I heard some amps with those tube and I did like a lot !
Theory is when everyone knows everything but nothing works, practice is when stuff works but nobody knows why !!!
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