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Hoffman Amps Forum image Author Topic: Vibro Champ 1x12 build - Complete!  (Read 16568 times)

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Offline BetterOffShred

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Vibro Champ 1x12 build - Complete!
« on: August 30, 2016, 11:37:22 am »
So I have seen a few builds where guys took the Vibrato circuitry out of their champs and put in reverb components and a tank, and have run those in heads or combos (taller heads to keep the tank away from the transformers I imagine), But I haven't seen anyone build a Champ clone with the Vibrato, and a reverb section.    There is this http://el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=7957.0 which seems to be fairly inclusive of what I was hoping to do..

I just started on my champ clone, and I have a fairly large chassis 16x8x2" and more than enough real estate on my board to probably add both.  As I have not purchased the transformers yet, I could size accordingly for such a modification.  Am I missing something here that makes this operation super difficult? It seems like since I don't really care about the box its going in, It could be easy enough to accomplish.   

I also understand adding a bunch of stuff deviates from the original "Magic" of the circuit design, and may change it significantly.  I really just chose this amp because I wanted Fender glass and vibrato at low watts, so having 100% authenticity is not really a concern.   

Thanks for Reading
-Brett

« Last Edit: February 10, 2020, 07:29:22 pm by BetterOffShred »

Offline eleventeen

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Re: Vibro Champ.. with Reverb
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2016, 02:29:47 pm »
It's not necessarily more "difficult", obviously depending a lot upon how much patience and experience and willingness to beat your head against the thing for a while before it is .002% useful....but it is not uncommon when trying to cram a lot into a small enclosure/chassis that you get into a situation where the thing makes more noise and hum because the parts are too close together. You can't always predict this, indeed, often you can't. The issue is, you can easily spend your $350 for all the parts and work on it and work on it and work on it and months later you still have nothing that is usable. It's not that it's harder to solder 60 solder connections versus 45, it's not that it's harder to make 3-5 more tube-sized holes in a chassis, it's that unless and until you can get it built to a point you are happy with, you have pretty much zero.


I probably would not have what you are talking about be your first build project. That said, make/propose a layout sketch, show the forum that you have some idea of the amount of parts and space required, and I am sure folks on here will chime in. I have no doubt a trm/rev Champ would be an attractive project and you'd definitely get some good ideas that would probably save you a ton of work or at least grief.


Never meant as discouragement!

Offline BetterOffShred

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Re: Vibro Champ.. with Reverb
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2016, 02:36:48 pm »
Nah I built a P1 and Blackfaced my 68' Bassman, and I've built around 50 effects pedals.  I'm not too worried about the technical aspects of it really, I'm just wondering if there is a reason that I'm not aware of you don't see more of these kind of mods (Being Vibrato and Reverb in the same board).

I'm currently working on a layout design for the board with the one-tube reverb from the link in my original post added.   I'm going to look at some other similar amps and where they take the In/Out for the one tube design and I'll get it posted.   

Like I said my chassis is way bigger than it needs to be, so I should have plenty of room to keep the PT away from the tubes, and fit the reverb tranny.  :)

Thanks for looking!
-Brett

Offline VMS

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Re: Vibro Champ.. with Reverb
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2016, 03:14:59 pm »
Maybe you can get some pointers from this Garnet g15tr which is basically a champ with reverb and tremolo. You could use champ ot and 6v6 tube for lower output.

http://el34world.com/charts/Schematics/files/garnet/garnet_g15tr_gnome.pdf


Offline BetterOffShred

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Re: Vibro Champ.. with Reverb
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2016, 04:47:14 pm »
Thank you very much for that sir!  I will give it a look and keep working on my layout!   

Thanks for looking
-Brett

Offline BetterOffShred

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Re: Vibro Champ.. with Reverb
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2016, 10:29:13 am »
Ok so I have a couple questions about the basic AA764 schematic which I believe will help me in my 'design' phase here.  The way I am reading the schematic is that They have taken their vibrato circuit and added it at the non-inverting output of the second half of the 12AX7, and then the other side to the DC at around 340V..   

Then VMS was kind enough to supply the Garnet schematic there for the G15TR, which in essence is what I'm trying to do, so I've been studying it a little bit and trying to wrap my head around the 1 Tube Reverb layout/schem that Tubenit gave us here http://el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=7957.50 ..
Garnet appears to put both the reverb and the vibrato on the Phase inverting output of the 12AX7. I understand they are using more than one tube as well.

So I guess my questions are as follows: 
1.) Is there any reason not to use the Inverted output for reverb on the "Champ" circuit while the vibrato remains on the Non-Inverted output?
2.) Can I use the Inverted output right off pin 6 as my "In" for the Tubenit one tube reverb, and then the pin 5 after the 0.02 as my "Out" to the 6V6?
3.) If anyone is familiar with the 1 tube Tubenit reverb layout, I have no idea where "E" (15) goes   EDIT: Apparently it's also B+ ..  Got it!
4.) the Garnet schematic is giving their Reverb Tranny 300V, so I would pull DC off the appropriate spot on my DC leg there for whatever the Hoffman reverb tranny requires right?

The schematic for inserting the reverb between V1a and V1b  from the link about 1 tube reverb is putting it in right after the volume pot and before the PI, any particular gain to be made here (pardon the pun) VS doing Garnet style?

I like the idea of a reverb control with a separate dwell control, so I think that would be fine to keep the way it is from the Tubenit 1 tube design.
I lack some fundamental understanding of Tube amp operation obviously, but I'm reading Merlins book, and trying to work on a project while I do so. Any help would be greatly appreciated :)  Thanks for reading!

-Brett
« Last Edit: September 02, 2016, 11:12:43 am by BetterOffShred »

Offline BetterOffShred

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Re: Vibro Champ.. with Reverb
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2016, 01:16:38 pm »
So after reading a bunch more about inserting these Reverbs, it seems that maybe the best bet is to stuff it right after the volume pot like the Carolina blues special design, which I made a quick mockup of with the Champ circuit below :)  Let me know what you think!

-Brett

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Re: Vibro Champ.. with Reverb
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2016, 01:18:59 pm »
... I have a couple questions about the basic AA764 schematic which I believe will help me in my 'design' phase here.  The way I am reading the schematic is that They have taken their vibrato circuit and added it at the non-inverting output of the second half of the 12AX7 ...

Don't look at it that way.  :icon_biggrin:

Instead, notice the AA764 VibroChamp has the cathodes of the 2nd 12AX7 gain stage (let's call this the "main channel" path) and the 2nd half of the trem circuit (the buffer) tied together.  Now when the buffer pulls a varying cathode current through the Intensity pot, the resulting varying voltage also appears at the other tube's cathode.  That varies the bias of that 2nd gain stage of the "main channel" which results in tremolo.

... Garnet appears to put both the reverb and the vibrato on the Phase inverting output of the 12AX7.  ...

Don't look at it that way.  :icon_biggrin:

Garnet is applying the trem and reverb to the grid of the output tube.  As it happens, the dry signal is also being applied to the grid of the output tube.

... trying to wrap my head around the 1 Tube Reverb layout/schem that Tubenit gave us ...

So you're considering using Tubenit's 1-tube reverb.  You're also thinking about implementing tremolo the way the VibroChamp does.  Should you?

  • The downside of the Garnet plan from the G15TR is it uses 3 triodes for the reverb, or a tube-and-a-half.
  • The upside of the Garnet plan from the G15TR is it uses 1 triode for the tremolo instead of the VibrChamp's 2 triodes, because trem is applied at a high-impedance point at the output tube's grid, so it doesn't need the buffer stage to apply trem to a low-impedance point as in the VibroChamp.

Garnet's plan is 3 triodes + 1 triode = 2 dual-triodes, while the path you're considering appears to be 2 triodes + 2 triodes = 2 dual triodes.

Since it seems like a wash, I'd highly recommend simply copying Garnet's plan in its entirety.  It's trivial to use a 6V6 instead of the indicated 6L6 if you choose.

The preamps are identical,* although Garnet failed to list a value for the resistor-to-ground in the tone stack.  You have a very large chassis, and could replace that resistor with a pot to have a Mid control for your amp as was done with Fender's larger amps.

If you need help selecting power & output transformers, that should be no problem once your desired output tube is known.

4.) the Garnet schematic is giving their Reverb Tranny 300V, so I would pull DC off the appropriate spot on my DC leg there for whatever the Hoffman reverb tranny requires right?

Yes, although copying the Garnet plan in its entirety will eliminate this as something to figure out.  Hoffman sells the stock Fender Reverb transformer, which will work just fine with the Garnet circuit.

... I like the idea of a reverb control with a separate dwell control ...

Garnet has a 1MΩ to ground right before the reverb transformer; use a 1MΩ pot there, wired as a volume control.  Dwell control done!


*: There is a slight difference in the effective gain of the output tube & 2nd gain stage due to the feedback loop values.  However, Garnet is quite close to, but a little bit less than, Fender's amount of feedback.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2016, 01:21:54 pm by HotBluePlates »

Offline BetterOffShred

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Re: Vibro Champ.. with Reverb
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2016, 02:27:40 pm »
HotBluePlates - Thanks so much for your excellent reply!  I see what you mean there about not thinking about the signal paths the way I was.  This project started because I wanted a small watt fender amp with some funsies built in stuff, and I like 4x12 cabs so I wanted to make a head.  Having built one amp from 'scratch' the P1..  I wanted something with a known layout that I could modify slightly to achieve some tweaks and possibly add reverb.    So having said this,  that is why I'm still leaning towards the 1 tube Reverb, and sticking it in the middle of the known layout I have for the VC.  I'm learning more and more about tube amps all the time, but I'm certainly not good enough to make a layout from the garnet schematics, and I couldn't find one anywhere.  So this project is another stepping stone in learning for me. 

Will my edited schematic work?   It looks pretty close to the Carolina Blues Special (at least the reverb input section).

As for the feedback loop values, I put the NFBL mod into my Bassman, and it's one of my favorite things now.  I was thinking about putting maybe the VC 2700 value and sticking a 10 or 20k pot on it.  I think I did an 820 and a 10k in my Bassman.. It screams with it turned up.

You make very good points, because I was planning on Using SS rectification and using a 6L6 anyway. I really do appreciate the input, thanks again for reading!
-Brett

Offline VMS

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Re: Vibro Champ.. with Reverb
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2016, 02:58:48 pm »
Since you are using the dwell control, I think this circuit could give more signal to the reverb.

This is open for critique...


Offline BetterOffShred

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Re: Vibro Champ.. with Reverb
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2016, 07:26:21 pm »
This looks really cool.  Does anyone have any input (pun intended) on VMS's schematic? I'd love to hear about it.  I'm chomping at the bit to get started on this!! Thanks so much for the help!

-Brett

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Re: Vibro Champ.. with Reverb
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2016, 12:00:25 am »
Running the reverb across a tone stack like that is a really old strategy that goes back at least four decades (when I first tried it) and probably longer.  It works pretty good.

A 12AX7 will drive reverb, but it is a bogus choice.  It is running way beyond the published maximum rating as drawn.  You could get it closer to maximum by putting a resistor in series with the transformer, but that will reduce the drive to the tank.  The input voltage required to clip a 12AX7 is much lower than other tubes typically used for reverb drive (12AT7 for instance).  This causes a problem coming off of the plate of the first stage, although the dwell control or a voltage divider minimizes this. 

The gain of a 12AX7 is desirable for the recovery stage, but there are other ways to get good recovery gain without using a 12AX7 for drive.  I'll betcha a 12AT7 stage could be used for the cathode follower portion of the vibrato while the other 12AT7 stage could be used for the reverb drive.  Then the 12AX7 stage formerly used for the vibrato cathode follower could be used for the reverb recovery. 

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Re: Vibro Champ.. with Reverb
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2016, 04:32:45 pm »
> 12AX7 will drive reverb... is running way beyond the published maximum rating as drawn.

Is it? My ruff-guess for 300V and 1.2K bias was <2mA at 0.6 Watts. Curve plotting comes to the same area.

This is "AT!" the design-center voltage rating; however if you actually test every unit you can push the design-max rating of 350V. (We may also know 12AX7 were pushed to 400V in some very fine reliable amps; or we may not.)

The dissipation is well below rating.

I _do_ suspect that any load less than ~~60K, the 12AT7 will give at least as good gain. At RT impedance levels, even better. That leaves an odd AT7 half, and as you say the recovery stage begs for AX7, but in _this_ plan the trem buffer is not Mu-fussy, could be the other half of AT7.

Offline 2deaf

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Re: Vibro Champ.. with Reverb
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2016, 07:16:51 pm »
How does that 12AX7 do with AC at 300Hz?

A 12AT7 with 300V on the plate and 1173 ohms for the cathode resistor idled at 4ma.  This is also consistent with the plotting on the curves.  The higher the idle current, the higher the potential current swing across the RT primary.  4ma compared to 1.8ma is a significant difference.

I will say that the 12AX7 can take some serious abuse.  I ran those things with 468V on the plates for reverb with no problem. 

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Re: Vibro Champ.. with Reverb
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2016, 10:03:42 am »
Alright so I whipped up a little layout with the 1 tube reverb shoe-horned into the VC layout I've been looking at using.  The green lines are going to be behind the board and I changed a few values of the reverb circuit based off Tubenit's modifications suggestion image from the original post.

I know the picture is manure, but I put the reverb component in brackets and its following VMS's idea there of taking the signal before the tone stack and then going back in after the volume pot.  I downloaded ExpressSCH and EL34's tube library of components.. so I'm going to try and redo it with that to make it look better.

-Brett

P.S. - I didn't show the wiring on the left side of the board because it's unchanged from the standard VC layout :)

Offline 2deaf

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Re: Vibro Champ.. with Reverb
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2016, 11:06:21 am »
What is that 100K resistor next to the 500pf Cap.?

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Re: Vibro Champ.. with Reverb
« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2016, 11:49:31 am »
What is that 100K resistor next to the 500pf Cap.?
That's the resistor you parallel across the circuit "in" and "out" as per the schematic.
http://el34world.com/Forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7957.0;attach=11276

-Brett

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Re: Vibro Champ.. with Reverb
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2016, 12:08:07 pm »
The VMS scheme doesn't use that 100K resistor.  The tone stack takes the place of it.  It would have high DC on it the way it is drawn.

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Re: Vibro Champ.. with Reverb
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2016, 12:39:06 pm »
Ah I see, you are correct. Thank you sir!  I will ammend my drawing, that's why I used pencil for this one!   

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Re: Vibro Champ.. with Reverb
« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2016, 01:22:42 pm »
I would recommend that you hook the driver to the second (340V) node on the power supply and the recovery to the third (320V) node.  If you hook it up like this, the 340V node will drop about 3V and the 320V node will drop about 13V.  If you hook the driver and the recovery to the 320V node, it will drop it about 33V.

If you have a smaller resistor like 1K to use for the driver cathode resistor, it would be better.  The 1.5K biases the driver too cold so that the cut-off clip limits how much you can drive the tank with clean signal. 
« Last Edit: September 05, 2016, 01:25:15 pm by 2deaf »

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Re: Vibro Champ.. with Reverb
« Reply #20 on: September 05, 2016, 01:54:53 pm »
Ah, yes the tweaks shown by Tubenit have changing that to 1k stating more gain when used with a 22-25uF cap.  The original has a 10uF and 1.5K ..  Makes sense.  I'm learning a lot about how this stuff works by screwing around with this.  That was the plan.  Thanks again for the help!

-Brett

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Re: Vibro Champ.. with Reverb
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2016, 07:06:12 pm »
...changing that to 1k stating more gain when used with a 22-25uF cap.

I didn't recommend a 1K cathode resistor for more gain.  The difference in gain between 1K and 1.5K is minimal.  The difference in clean headroom is significant.  You can put something like one and a half times more clean ma's into the tank by changing the 1.5K resistor to 1K.  This is because it takes more negative input signal to put the tube into cut-off clipping with the warmer bias created by the 1K resistor.  Since the gain doesn't change much and you can use a larger signal with 1K,  you can drive the tank with a larger clean signal.

If you keep going and use an 820 ohm resistor, you can use an even larger negative input signal but grid clipping of the positive input signal becomes a limiting factor.  Actually the grid clipping starts to limit even with the 1.5K resistor when you get to higher frequencies, but these are outside our range of interest.  Grid clipping with an 820 ohm resistor is a problem with the frequencies in our range of interest.

When I talk about clean signal, I mean non-clipped.  Oblong, rounded, unsymmetrical, or non-centered signals sound fine to me when driving reverb.  Clipped signals are unacceptable to me for reverb drive.   


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Re: Vibro Champ.. with Reverb
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2016, 12:13:58 pm »
Well I ordered the Transformer and reverb Tank from Doug yesterday, so I'm forging ahead with this project.  Ill be updating my layout and trying to make a nicer looking version using some software this week. Looking forward to getting this going :)

-Brett

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Re: Vibro Champ.. with Reverb
« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2016, 02:58:22 pm »
Alright so after a lot of deliberation, I think I am going to just make the V.C. clone, and build a stand alone reverb unit with my transformer and tank.  I have a Bassman and a Triple Rec I also like to play a lot and find myself wishing for reverb on them as well, so I figured I'd just build the stand alone unit.   Anyway, I'll start updating the project now as I work on it.  Thanks guys

-Brett

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Re: Vibro Champ Head build - progress!!
« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2017, 03:25:13 pm »
Alright so I got a chassis from Ebay, stamped steel, pretty decent quality and it was only like $45.   I got my last order from Doug, so I have all the caps and metal film resistors for the build, minus the 0.022 dijon which is part of my A/B/C plan.   



I just recently got divorced and I'm in the midst of my second to last quarter for a Mechanical Engineering Degree, so time and money are scarce, but I am trying to keep this project going!

-Brett

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Re: Vibro Champ Head build - progress!!
« Reply #25 on: January 23, 2017, 06:43:59 pm »
I just recently got divorced and I'm in the midst of my second to last quarter for a Mechanical Engineering Degree, so time and money are scarce, but I am trying to keep this project going!


Hey Brett,

You sound like the classic engineering type dude and I resemble that!

When the pressure is on and things are going south, then do something that you can control, like building an Amplifier, with incredible zealousness!

Jeez, I'm on my third amp in three months.

Note: When you stay up all night working on an amp because it feels comforting, check your work thoroughly the next day.  I spent yesterday doing surgery on a clean board that had some blatant errors that indicate that I was obsessed with something else other than capacitor polarity :bs:

Good luck with things, try not to spin.

BV

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Re: Vibro Champ Head build - progress!!
« Reply #26 on: January 23, 2017, 07:12:09 pm »
Yeah thanks man.  I agree!  I got the board drilled and put the turrets in and started loading components but I haven't had much time so I'll get a pic later this week and hopefully have something to show! I ordered the classictone transformers from Triode, but it's been over a week and they haven't even shipped yet so I'm kind of irritated about that.   Doug is prompt as hell on orders, and I really like that.   Maybe he should go after being a Classictone Dealer  :icon_biggrin:

Anyway, more to come, thanks for looking!
-Brett

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Re: Vibro Champ Head build - progress!!
« Reply #27 on: January 23, 2017, 07:21:39 pm »
Quote
Mechanical Engineering Degree
please, please, please consider us lowly field engineers that have to take 27 parts out just to fix a fuse :icon_biggrin:
Went Class C for efficiency

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Re: Vibro Champ Head build - progress!!
« Reply #28 on: January 23, 2017, 07:45:52 pm »
> field engineers that have to take 27 parts out just to fix a fuse

As a tractor mechanic, I've had to lift a full-weather cab, steering, fuel tank, instrument binnacle, and assorted bits just to clean a shift-interlock.

And that's the wrong way. Right way was to split the tractor into two 4,500lb parts and a 1,000lb part to put on the bench.

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Re: Vibro Champ Head build - progress!!
« Reply #29 on: January 23, 2017, 08:15:36 pm »
Quote
tractor mechanic
Any of us that have had to fix broke things for a living HAVE used disparaging words to describe Mechanical engineers, electrical engineers and tech writers.  I will be the 1st to say, ALL the above folks have GREAT ppl that blow me away, become THAT guy :laugh:
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Re: Vibro Champ Head build - progress!!
« Reply #30 on: January 24, 2017, 05:18:15 pm »
I was an engine mechanic for Caterpillar for 6 years before I went back to school for Mechanical engineering.  I know all about where the divide is between Technicians and "engineers"   I'm hoping my experience wrenching will make me a better engineer! 
> field engineers that have to take 27 parts out just to fix a fuse

As a tractor mechanic, I've had to lift a full-weather cab, steering, fuel tank, instrument binnacle, and assorted bits just to clean a shift-interlock.

And that's the wrong way. Right way was to split the tractor into two 4,500lb parts and a 1,000lb part to put on the bench.
Yeah I pulled an engine out of a Western Star Dual steer axle well drilling rig in the middle of a field with a service truck that wasn't rated to lift the engine, in the pouring rain.     Trust me, I'm glad I went back to school!   I do miss wrenching sometimes though. 

Quote
tractor mechanic
Any of us that have had to fix broke things for a living HAVE used disparaging words to describe Mechanical engineers, electrical engineers and tech writers.  I will be the 1st to say, ALL the above folks have GREAT ppl that blow me away, become THAT guy :laugh:
Yeah.   I've been there.    And I hope to be the guy that the technicians applaud for design choices. 

-Brett

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Re: Vibro Champ Head build - progress!!
« Reply #31 on: January 25, 2017, 06:48:56 pm »
Well my order came today  :icon_biggrin:  I swear its lightning fast somehow..  I live in WA state, and it came in three days!   So I got the dijon's and some stuff to mod the bass channel on my Bassman.    Doug is awesome!

-Brett

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Re: Vibro Champ Head build - progress!!
« Reply #32 on: January 26, 2017, 08:35:08 am »
I ordered the classictone transformers....... but it's been over a week and they haven't even shipped yet so I'm kind of irritated about that.   Doug is prompt as hell on orders, and I really like that.   Maybe he should go after being a Classictone Dealer  :icon_biggrin:
He talked about this a while back and looked into it. Unfortunately, there is no profit margin for him.
 
Alright so after a lot of deliberation, I think I am going to just make the V.C. clone, and build a stand alone reverb unit with my transformer and tank.  I have a Bassman and a Triple Rec I also like to play a lot and find myself wishing for reverb on them as well, so I figured I'd just build the stand alone unit.   Anyway, I'll start updating the project now as I work on it.  Thanks guys
That sounds like a good plan.
  I 'd like to advise you to try something; maybe off topic, but something I found fun.
When you complete the Champ, rig up one of these little line out attenuators so you can use the Champ as an overdrive unit into your Bassman. It's a cheap, but really cool overdrive setup that most people will never experience. Works great with the Champ's output because it is so low watt. The higher the output the higher the power resistor W value would have to be.
It will sound huge if you can get:
Reverb unit > Champ 'cranked' > Att-line level > Bassman
Please have fun.
My experimental version looked like this: 

Offline BetterOffShred

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Re: Vibro Champ Head build - progress!!
« Reply #33 on: February 02, 2017, 04:26:47 pm »
Alright, so here's the board drilled out, turrets placed, components placed:


and then I ran some of Doug's fine vintage Fender wire around, Still waiting on my Transformers from Triode!  They shipped Yesterday, 3 weeks after I paid for them.  I guess that's how it goes!


This is really my first proper "Turret board" as the one I made for my P1 was super ghetto and I just kind of built it out of crap I had on hand.
I got some nylon standoffs from ACE and I'm going to use three 10-32 bolts and the nylon risers to keep the board off the deck! 
I just need my transformers now..  I guess I could twist up my heater wires while I wait!

-Brett

PS --   Do I have those Mojo's hooked up correctly?  The end that doesn't have the + on it goes to the pot and then to ground based off the schematic (both).. the 0.022 doesn't have a polarity marking.  So I'm not sure there. 
« Last Edit: February 02, 2017, 04:37:44 pm by BetterOffShred »

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Re: Vibro Champ Head build - progress!!
« Reply #34 on: February 02, 2017, 07:26:05 pm »
When you complete the Champ, rig up one of these little line out attenuators so you can use the Champ as an overdrive unit into your Bassman. It's a cheap, but really cool overdrive setup that most people will never experience. Works great with the Champ's output because it is so low watt. The higher the output the higher the power resistor W value would have to be.
It will sound huge if you can get:
Reverb unit > Champ 'cranked' > Att-line level > Bassman
Please have fun.
My experimental version looked like this:

Thanks a lot for this idea.   I really love stuff like this, I will certainly be giving this a try!
-Brett

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Re: Vibro Champ Head build - progress!!
« Reply #35 on: February 16, 2017, 02:27:18 pm »
Finally my transformers came!  Over a month after I ordered them! But hey I'm glad they came finilly and they look fantastic.  So I'm hoping to have a switchable rectifier switch similar to the image there but with a 5Y3 of course.  I know my B+ will be significantly higher with SS rectos, and I was hoping to get some input on this.  Do I just see what it is with the SS and see if my tubes will take it? Or is there a way to switch in another resistor with maybe a DPDT switch?  Most of these switches I've found have only been rated around 250V and 2A or something..   
-Brett

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Re: Vibro Champ Head build - progress!!
« Reply #36 on: February 16, 2017, 02:40:33 pm »
If you want to match the ss B+ voltage to the tube B+ voltage, just put a resistor between the junction of the diodes and the switch.
A schematic, layout, and hi-rez pics are very useful for troubleshooting your amp. Don't wait to be asked. JUST DO IT!

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Re: Vibro Champ Head build - progress!!
« Reply #37 on: February 16, 2017, 02:43:31 pm »
OK cool. I was thinking that would work, but I wasn't sure it was acceptable.  3 watt would be sufficient ?
Appreciate you looking :)
-Brett

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Re: Vibro Champ Head build - progress!!
« Reply #38 on: February 22, 2017, 06:02:16 pm »
So I have another question regarding my Power Transformer.   For my heaters, the Vibro Champ Schematic assumes a PT with no Center tap on the heater supply and has a couple of 100R's going to ground off each leg, but I got the 40-18019 from ClassicTone   --> http://www.classictone.net/40-18030.pdf   <-- so I'm wondering if I can wire it up with the Center tap and bypass the 100R's?  I got some 3W 100R's from Doug last order so I can go either way, I was just wondering if a particular approach would be more advantageous vs. the other?  Dumb questions I know!
I also didn't have any 8-32 nuts so I have to buzz by ACE after work and pick some up so I can mount that bad boy and get back to work.  Am I the slowest amp builder ever?
-Brett

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Re: Vibro Champ Head build - progress!!
« Reply #39 on: February 22, 2017, 06:47:51 pm »
That's not a PT with heaters, that's a OT, with different output taps and input impedance options, Or did you link the wrong pdf?

If it has a heater center tap, just ground that, and you're set, the two 100Ohm to ground is an artificial center tap.  But again, make sure you're not confusing the OT for the PT.

~Phil
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Re: Vibro Champ Head build - progress!!
« Reply #40 on: February 22, 2017, 06:48:51 pm »
Oh you just linked the wrong one, I found it:

http://www.classictone.net/40-18019.pdf

It def shows a center tap, so yes, just ground that center tap for the heaters and you'll have a nice quiet heater line :)  (So long as your lead dress is good)

~Phil
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Re: Vibro Champ Head build - progress!!
« Reply #41 on: February 22, 2017, 06:54:52 pm »
Hah thanks!  Yeah I had them both open and wasn't paying attention.    Thanks for the input there.  I'll give it a try for sure.  And if it's noisy maybe I'll just wire up the hum eliminator like Merlin details on his site.

-Brett

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Re: Vibro Champ Head build - progress!!
« Reply #42 on: February 22, 2017, 07:10:11 pm »
Yeah his 'humdinger' is just a hum balance pot, I've used it on one build and another I'm fixing an amp for a customer now that's got one, and man, it's obvious how well it works.

~Phil
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Re: Vibro Champ Head build - progress!!
« Reply #43 on: March 02, 2017, 04:04:21 pm »
I was looking for a little advice/opinion information from a few of you who would care to share.  I got my tax return so I was thinking to fast-track this particular project I'd buy a cabinet.  Rawcabs has a head cabinet for around $130 shipped, which looks really nice, but they also sell a cabinet fit for a 12" speaker.   At home I play primarily through a 4x12 from my head-banging days, and I really love that sound, but I'd love to be able to pack around a combo with a 1x12" in it.  So my question is, is this particular amp worth putting in a 1x12" combo box?  I know tons of the 5E stuff is all in 1x12's and that's been a staple for years.  I can always run the speaker cable to the 4x12" when I want, but I guess I mean sonically does this amp sound good through a 12" ?  I'm imagining it does.  I know that's a loaded question, with magic, mojo, and everything in between happening, but if you'd care to share an opinion I'd love to hear it.   I'm not expecting gig volume out of this combo, but I'd like it to get full and loud of course, which I know from my P1, 5 watts will.   Thanks

http://www.ebay.com/itm/rawcabs-Vibro-Champ-1X12-empty-pine-custom-built-combo-cabinet-/292042292848?hash=item43ff13be70:m:mBI2K08zmAzxLYOxJlEDg5w 

and

http://www.ebay.com/itm/rawcabs-D-I-Y-project-pine-head-cabinet-for-Vibro-champ-chassis-/302234255371?hash=item465e90c00b:g:uasAAMXQNo5TWpQB

-Brett
« Last Edit: March 02, 2017, 05:08:16 pm by BetterOffShred »

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Re: Vibro Champ Head build - progress!!
« Reply #44 on: March 02, 2017, 07:59:46 pm »
Thats the direction id go....1x12 cab for sure.....that amp into a 4x12 would sound cool too
New build problems? Click here.

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Re: Vibro Champ Head build - progress!!
« Reply #45 on: April 08, 2017, 03:55:39 pm »
I got to work on this a bit more recently, I'm just about done wiring.  There's a few things I have yet to wire up, but it's almost there!


I also built me a Lamp Limiter..

25 Watt bulb for this project startup... Should be ok?
I figured if I had to get one, might as well get a red one!
In the background of the first picture theres a little bag with a piece of red fiber board and a switch, I'm going to use that and 6 turrets to make a 4x4007 and 1 resistor board to run my SS rectification on.  I have another standoff so when I get it where I want I'll just direct mount it next to the 5Y3 socket.    I think I may play with resistor values a bit to see how I like it.. I'm also considering running a 6L6 power tube after I play with it a bit!  :icon_biggrin:
Thanks for looking!
-Brett

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Re: Vibro Champ Head build - progress!!
« Reply #46 on: April 09, 2017, 08:09:51 pm »
Nice and neat  :smiley:
That is a nice looking chassis ..... 16ga?
Are the heater wires going to sit in the top back lip? I saw that somewhere :wink: Those are nice cabinets at that link. It will probably sing along , being pine is very light. Polyurethane no stain would get my vote.
 
Got two more amps (heads) in cabinets today both SE EL84 now I can get back to tweaking my Pro Amp. Wire dressing ......   

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Re: Vibro Champ Head build - progress!!
« Reply #47 on: April 10, 2017, 01:09:15 pm »
Damn that looks great!  Can't wait to hear it either! :)

~Phil
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Re: Vibro Champ Head build - progress!!
« Reply #48 on: April 11, 2017, 03:48:37 pm »
Nice and neat  :smiley:
That is a nice looking chassis ..... 16ga?
Yeah man, I bought it Off E-bay for $44 USD shipped!  Great quality, I regret nothing.  I realized building chassis' was not something I really wanted to get into.  I built the chassis for my first amp, an AX84 P1, and it's not real great, but it works. 

Damn that looks great!  Can't wait to hear it either! :)

~Phil
Thanks a lot for the compliment.   This being my second amp, I'm a total novice at everything, but I tried really hard to keep the lead dress nice and tidy, and I'm hoping my grounding implementation is good enough for the gain in this amp! 
I will certainly record some clips once I fire it up, and yeah I'm going slow as a snail in January, but I don't have much time to devote to the project. 

-Brett

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Re: Vibro Champ Head build - progress!!
« Reply #49 on: February 10, 2020, 03:45:32 pm »
So I finished this build..   

I ended up buying a rawcabs 1x12 combo box, did the silver grill cloth and "wine" tolex myself.. (not great but serviceable)  and it all works.  Then I had to store It and never really posted any pics or anything, so I'll do that!   I put a Cannabis Rex in it, and scrapped the switchable SS rectification for the time being.  Now the only thing I really want to do is add a reservoir cap bleed off resistor with a LED, so I ordered up a 56K 10W resistor for that.   

Anyway, I'll post some pics tonight as I got it back out.
all things with time..

 


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