Newbie looking for help choosing a design to build

[TitaniumValhalla]

Hi everyone. I'm new here and hoping you guys with more experience can point me in the right direction for my first build. About me - 29 years old, been into electronics since I was a teenager, have been doing basic tube amp mods, cap jobs, etc. for about ten years now, but never built anything from scratch. I have a big Silverface Fender head I use for cleans (way too loud to crank it enough for anything else) and a '62 Gibson Skylark (Crestline era) 1x10 combo I use for noodling around with light overdrive. I found it as a stripped chassis, built a new cabinet for it (copied the original cabinet that a buddy of mine owns) and filled it with NOS tubes. It sounds pretty good but with 2x6AQ5s in the power section I'm guessing it's putting out 9-12w, which is pretty loud to crank in a bedroom, and it doesn't really start breaking up until about 75%.

What I'm looking to build is something with early breakup and a Marshall-y overdrive sound at bedroom levels or at least basement levels. Basically I'm torn between building something like the Stout TMB, which I really love the sound of from the clips I've heard, or something smaller like a 5F1 maybe modded to run an EL84. I'm afraid at 18w that I'll never be able to get the drive I want out of the Stout without my wife having a meltdown due to the volume. I'm just assuming that based on the volume of my Skylark but I was hoping those of you with experience with it could say for sure. Whatever I build will be a head rather than a combo and will run with my 4x12 (4 ohms) so that will also add some volume and will require a 4 ohm tap.

Stout? 5F1? Something else? Thoughts?

 

[PRR]

Welcome.

No answers, just thoughts.

I've been told "Turn That Down!" with a 1 Watt amp.

A 4X12 is a VERY efficient speaker array and even 1 Watt may be overwhelming inside a house.

A power absorber is an obvious approach. Many players do not like the way it affects the amplifier loudspeaker interface.

"Breakup at xx%" is about Gain, not Power. Whatever the maximum clean/distorted power, whatever the signal source (weak player lame pickups or power player hot pickups), we can adjust Gain to break up at any % on the knob. Four 12AX7 into a kitchen radio power tube might breakup at the lightest stroke; OTOH some famous players with biga-Watt rigs work so low gain that ordinary players can hardly touch breakup.

[tubenit]

Check out the SoLow Watt amp using ECL84 tubes.  I ended up selling this amp to a guy that opened up for Dave Matthews and on another occasion, Derek Trucks.  I spoke with him a few months ago and he states it is still his #1 amp for playing at home where he has significant constraints on playing with any volume.

http://el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=13438.msg127145#msg127145

Another forum member built this and his build looks a lot better then mine does.  Check this out:

http://el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=13151.msg122821#msg122821

With respect, Tubenit

[tubenit]

Several guys on the amp garage built this amp design using other tubes like ECL86.  Check out passfan's build on the 2nd page of this 5 page thread.

http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17599&start=45&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=ecl84

There is also a lot of information in ARCHIVES about using VVR's to dial amps down to even lower wattages.  You dial this amp down to 1-2 watts using VVR.

http://el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=6899.0

with respect, Tubenit

[HotBluePlates]

... I've been told "Turn That Down!" with a 1 Watt amp.

A 4X12 is a VERY efficient speaker array and even 1 Watt may be overwhelming inside a house.  ...

I built a 1/3w amp (single-ended 6AU6 output tube) and use it with a 2x12 cabinet.  In an apartment environment, it can be turned up during daylight hours for distortion, but at night I risk making neighbors mad.

[shooter]

Marshall-y overdrive

If you want to roll your own, take your favorite Marshall pre section and meld it into a SE/P-P power amp
for SE, I like EL84's at low volts, 250ish plate, for PP, use HBP's suggestion of the 6AU6.  You'll have to ask, hunt, surf, but you can get 4ohm out.  If you like the electronics aspect, it's kinda fun seeing the math/theory match up, or not, with your build.
you can get a lot of tone n bedroom volume from a 2 or 3 tube build.  keep it simple, mod it complex

[TitaniumValhalla]

Thanks for the help guys. Given this is my first build I think I should probably keep it simple. I found the Hoffman "Schedule 40" which is a 5F1/GA-5 circuit with an EL-84 and it looks really good as a starting point. I'm thinking about a few changes like two inputs for bright/dark (or humbucker/single coil), adding a pot to the NFB as a "gain" control, and switchable output for 4/8ohm speakers so I can use it with whatever I want. I'm afraid I probably won't be building it in PVC like the original but I did get a kick out of the fact that he did it. 

After I get a build under my belt I might tackle something bigger like an 18w, but it sounds like buying an attenuator is probably in order. I have heard good things about the Weber Mass series and they're cheaper than I expected. I like the fact that if I were to get one I could use it on any of my amps without needing to mod each one like I would with something like VVR.

[shooter]

Weber Mass

If you're handy with power tools you could build a sound room, then you can play a twin on 7

[purpletele]

Thanks for the help guys. Given this is my first build I think I should probably keep it simple. I found the Hoffman "Schedule 40" which is a 5F1/GA-5 circuit with an EL-84 and it looks really good as a starting point. I'm thinking about a few changes like two inputs for bright/dark (or humbucker/single coil), adding a pot to the NFB as a "gain" control, and switchable output for 4/8ohm speakers so I can use it with whatever I want. I'm afraid I probably won't be building it in PVC like the original but I did get a kick out of the fact that he did it. 

After I get a build under my belt I might tackle something bigger like an 18w, but it sounds like buying an attenuator is probably in order. I have heard good things about the Weber Mass series and they're cheaper than I expected. I like the fact that if I were to get one I could use it on any of my amps without needing to mod each one like I would with something like VVR.

TV,

I too have been struggling with volume control issues.  I solved my issue in a couple of ways.

1. I bought a Maz 8, which is a fantastic amp, and a Dr. Z Therapy, which has a fantastic MV.  Both of which can be played with great tones at very low volume.

2. I decided quite a while back that I wanted to learn as much about the nuances of different larger amps.  The master plan was to learn about everything regarding amplified sound, which includes guitars, pedals,  etc.

3. In order to control the volume on my project amps I invested in a Fryette Power Station.  This is a 6l6 driven amplifier that operates as wonderful attenuator and you don't lose the tone as you turn down the volume.  It is quite amazing.

4. In the photo I have the 18 Watt 6v6 Plexi almost wide open, and I learned that this amps wants to breathe at 12:00-3:00 on the volume control.  With the Fryette Power Station I can dial the volume down to below bedroom level and have the amp cranked.  The result is just as you would imagine, totally saturated tones that you could play in a TownHouse with neighbors. 

5. I was afraid that the 18 Watt Plexi was going to be unusable because it was so loud.  It is becoming a local favorite with some musician friends, this amp is the perfect size for a small performing band situation.  I mounted a Dr. Z Brake Lite in the cab for on the spot attenuation.  It works well but has a tendency to blanket your tone.  However a few clicks will knock off a few db's and allow you to get into the Saturated Zone and not cut through everyone's ears.

6. I just completed the 18 watt 6V6 and it has turned out to be much better than anticipated.

7. I am working on the Hoffman Stout right now.  That is a very nice amp from what I have heard and I am looking forward to good things.  It's a pretty simple project without a whole lot of bells and whistles.  I re-purposed a chassis and cabinet from a Blackheart 5 Watt.  That has turned out to be a lot of work to cut and drill due to the chassis being 16 gauge steel.

8. I would look at ideas for an Amp Cradle to mount the chassis while you are working on it.  I bought one from MojoTone and it has been a fantastic tool.

9. The Weber Mass is a good solution, but it is sort of unsatisfying at very low volumes.  However, I am spoiled with the Power Station. 

Have fun! 

BV