Pawn Shop Strat, too twangy, help!

[Cree]

Got me a couple of Pawn shop Strats, took two to build one. The pick ups I decided to use are from a Copy made by a co. named AXL,  I think the date code is "98". These Pick ups have a metal plate on the bottom, none stagger magnets . I used 250 pots, .047uF cap, standard Strat wiring. Took 4 springs to float the bridge, using D' Addario .009 - .046 Strings. Now It does sound like a Strat, but too much twang, too sharp, too bright. If I roll back on the tone it looses the bite but mudds up the lower strings.  I'm wandering if the extra bite comes from the metal plates on the bottom of the pickups, not allowing much bass though. Anybody have Ideas?   

[Platefire]

My best guess is the pickups. Artec makes a cheap set of Alnico V in the $45 range I used on
One of my project strats that has good classic tone. You couldn't control the brightness with guitar
And amp tone controls? Platefire

[Ed_Chambley]

How close to the strings are you?  Normally if you lower them enough they will mellow.

[Platefire]

Good call, didn't think of that! Platefire

[Cree]

Sorry For not getting back sooner. To answer the one question, I set the Pickup's to within 2 penny's width of the strings. I will lower them and ck out how that sounds. This is my first strat, and It does have very good sustain though, very good. I am shocked at that part of this "parts o caster".  Makes me want to build a good one now. Some better parts, lol. 

[Ed_Chambley]

I never fet closer than 2 nickels on the bridge high side. This is just to start. I adjust pups while playing. I lower them until I hear a slight dulling and them just back.


I set up an old Greco les Paul for a guy and when he cams to get it he looked and said the neck pup was too low without playing it.


I said how do you know? Because, he said, they are lower than the ring around. Got nothing to do with it. Some pups just are different and when you get them set you will get better sustain and the lower reduces output for more vintage tone.

[Cree]

I never fet closer than 2 nickels on the bridge high side. This is just to start. I adjust pups while playing. I lower them until I hear a slight dulling and them just back.

Took your advise and lowered the p-ups and started adjusting them up until I was happier with the sound. Wound up with the Neck and middle like you say about 2 nickels worth on the base side and a bit higher on the treble side to get a better balance on the output. I marked the side so I would know if I was close to the org. height.  This way I could make a case for, " is this making a difference". The bridge p-up is flat but a tad lower yet. This did make a difference in the brightness of the output. Thank you for the advice. 

To answer a previous question about my amp adjustments. My practice amp is a single ended EL84 with only a volume control. And about 260v to the output Tube  (using JJ's, a 12AX7 and EL84). I ran the heaters thru a rectifier for DC volts there, same for main rectification. I use a multi effects pedal that gives a master volume capability. I mainly use a bit of reverb and the master volume to get some over drive effect, the other effects are not my thing. Although sometimes I use some compression with the Duo-sonic.  My other amp build is awaiting a make over and is in a box at the current time.   

 I own a 1962 Fender Duo-sonic, a Squire Tele, and a EP 335 studio, never had much want for a Strat until I was visiting a friend who plays weekly in a Night Club band. I like the sound but never had the bug for one, but after trying to get this new toy to sound better, I do want a better one. 

[Ed_Chambley]

I have played and even setup Strats for friends.  I have played quite a few I really like, but they were owned and not for sale.  I played a 63 this past weekend and it was very nice.  I have never found one for myself with Fender on the headstock and have wanted one for a long time.


Even the Jeff Beck model I tried just didn't do it for me.  Stratocasters seem to be the most modded of all guitars and every one who owns them usually have tried a lot of different PUPS.  Thats what a friend told me, I was going to have to fid one I liked the feel and make it sound "right."


I bought a Suhr modern Pro and currently have a guy guiding me a super strat.  He used to work for Tom Anderson and builds very nice guitars.  He priced it under $1500, however I am supplying the Gotoh 510 vibrato and PUPS.  To me the screw in bar on the "vintage" bridge seems too thin and light and the volume is too close the the e string.  I play with my fingers and use my pinky for position and prefer to play just in front of the bridge pup mostly.  My pinky touches the volume pot, drives me nuts.


If you want a really good strat look for a Strat Plus made in the mid to late 80's.  When they changed to the roller nut, these are some of the best strats I have ever played.  I cannot buy a guitar without playing it first so Ebay or Reverb doesn't help.


The reason I mention the Strat Plus is I have never played one I did not consider just as good as any custom shop model.  I am going to use Keystone Pickups for mine and I really do not know much about them, but I have noticed once some puts them in a Strat, they stay and that says a lot.

[Willabe]

I play with my fingers and use my pinky for position and prefer to play just in front of the bridge pup mostly.  My pinky touches the volume pot, drives me nuts.

It's NOT a Tele!!! Your trying to make it sound like a Tele, probably because your used to that sound, let it sound like a Strat!!!       

Ed, I know you know your way around a git-tar by now but, I think you have to move forward just a little bit. I play just behind the middle PUP mostly, some just in front of the middle PUP. My pinky anchors just in front of the volume control, often touching/hanging on the high E string. And the back side of my pinky often just touches the volume knob, but it doesn't change the setting.

And you want the volume control where it is for volume swells. Leo got that right.      (Rory Gallagher was 1 of the best at this, goes without saying Jeff Beck too.)

I often will start a low open E string run just in front of or just behind the bridge PUP and as I go to the higher strings I move my picking forward. Keeps the low string notes tighter/less mud and as you go forward the higher strings fatten up. It keeps the run more balanced sounding.

To me I've thought for a long time now, that the PUPs on a Strat should have been angled towards the bridge on the low E side and towards the neck on the hi E side. Opposite of how they really are. (Weren't the PUP's like that on Jimmi's and Otis Rush's upside down Strat's?     Didn't some old Supros (?) have their PUP's set like that?) 

I do play just in front of the bridge PUP or just behind it for a lead or to rake a cord on an up stroke for chime, but only sometimes, but just for effect. It's very tight and thinner sounding there, not a normal Strat tone. (Or on any guitar for that matter.) The tone doesn't sound very natural picking there, but it's very useful for accents on certain parts. Anson Funderberg plays solos or parts of them very close to the bridge PUP on his Start but he plays through a vintage tweed bassman, harder to do with brighter amps.

Same goes for Gretsch players. They will play a few notes just above/on top of the bridge PUP on the low E string for that very tight low sound, but it's just for effect. 

     

[Ed_Chambley]

Leo got the volume right but pickup angle wrong, is that what you are saying. 


I would not let the volume pot stop me when I find one. You are correct, but I play back because my thumb is extended forward and I do not play folk style. I pop the strings and must have a solid bass note. Most times we play rhythm right?


I am not use to the position, that's all. MOSRITE PUPS are counter clock. I love strat lovers, you know that and I did mention the Strat Plus, so you know I ain't stupid.


I find if I play the neck pup and use a pick And punish the strat it is better. The want it rough. 

[Willabe]

Leo got the volume right but pickup angle wrong, is that what you are saying. 

Yes.     

Why would you want to emphasize the treble even more on the high strings on a guitar with a single coil PUP? I'd rather compress the extreme highs and lows a little so it's more even across the frequency spectrum.

After all a Strat has 3 PUP's and a 5 way PUP selector. Easy enough to change the frequency response center. And you can change where you pick along the strings length.     

I love strat lovers, you know that and I did mention the Strat Plus, so you know I ain't stupid.

Yes I know that.   

Ed, I know you know your way around a git-tar by now......