Re issue Magnatone Twilighter Stereo 4 X 6V6

[Willabe]

(I'll move this in a day or 2, probably to effects, as I think of this amp more for the pitch shift vibrato/ FM vibrato.)  Moved to Effects.   Willabe

Man!!!!!!!! Are you kidding me???????? WHAT AN AMP!!!!!!!!   

I played a used 1, 2014, last Sat. at Chicago Music Exchange down in the city, UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!

You have to play it to believe it, so full, so rich, the bottom end, the top chime, the full mid range and THEN there's the vibrato!!!!!!

I don't know if the original's sound this good but this amp is wonderfully stunning!!!!!!!!   

I am NOT exaggerating at all.

The Brent Mason video clip does NOT do this amp justice at all! You have to hear it in person.

http://magnatoneusa.com/products/traditional-collection/twilighter-stereo/

Chassis and gut shots in this link, it's a PC board but looks well made?

https://youtu.be/1AUABlwq-y4

Magnatone 2013 NAMM show demo.

https://youtu.be/73NnUsVVpd0

[Willabe]

Wait a minute, I only see 4 varistors in the gut shot. 

 

[purpletele]

^^^^Sounds fantastic.

I have been checking out their amps.  Very impressive portfolio.

 The only thing I don't care for on the Twighlighter is having the controls on the back side of an amp.

I am not a knob fiddler, but I think it gives you confidence when you can at least see your control panel and settings.

That's an interesting feature and topic now that I think about it, that is, if you are an amp geek.

[Ed_Chambley]

Yes, I like these amps.  I have been working on the same topology of a build for a few years.  The Dual 6V6.  I have it working now, but since I am building a breadboard all my chassis punching is on hold.


I believe what they were wanting to get across with the Brent Mason demo is you can have the Vintage Deluxe Reverb tone at 22 watts, but also add another for larger gigs at 44 watts but still keep the Deluxe tone which seems to be the go to club amp these days.


I played one and they are ambient.  What is attractive about this one is the versatility.  When I played the amp at Boutique Music Exchange here in Atlanta, I was impressed too.  I really like the ability to allocate verb to one speaker or keep one speaker dry for tremolo and vibrato.  A lot of ideas are coming around and Analog Outfitters reworking the Scanner for Vibrato in a mechanical form played through a Red Witch Titan delay in a loop of a fender type amp is unbelievable too.


I don't have a scanner, or I would build one.


The reissue Maggies sound like the old ones and PCB is nothing I am afraid of, especially for an amp like this.  I would not carry this amp around anyway.  Truthfully, the vibrato in a live situation is not that useful to me unless I am playing with another guitar player, however using it on layers is really nice.


You need to stay out of the candy store!    I told you I have always wanted to visit the place, but I know I would leave a poor man.

[Ed_Chambley]

Oh yea, I will say I am not thrilled with the choice of CC resistors on a PCB.  I know "vintage" tone is supposed to come from them and Dave Funk, along with others, say there is a distortion.  Also that there is more warmth.  I cannot hear it when comparing  to the Metal Film resistors I use.


I believe the Varistors are shared, just placed on a different phase.  Not sure.  Looks to me as if it is a 2 channel, dual OT with he ability to mix the effects into either channel, but the insertion would have to be 180 out for each other.  It appears to have a separate speaker jack for each and the extension speakers are connected per channel.


All you gotta do is purchase some the of the Varistors.  Think you can buy them?  I bet if you are even an approved service shop you would have to provide the serial number for the amp and return any varistors considered bad.

[SILVERGUN]

Does sound cool
 
Which of the originals would this be comparable to?...if any
 
I'd like to look up one of the old schematics, just to see what makes em tick.

[SILVERGUN]

Broke out my old Google
Came up with this: "Styled like the original 280"
SO...(?)
 
http://el34world.com/charts/Schematics/files/magnatone/magnatone_280a.pdf
 
Never really knew anything about these, but I did remember sluckey had done something Maggie a while back, so I stole this off his site and would suggest anyone else who wants to play along give his site a visit.
http://sluckeyamps.com/magnatone/magnatone.htm
 
What's the deal with the Varistors?
Are they as hard to get as the Plutonium Space Modulator?
Current production replacements?

[Willabe]

I believe what they were wanting to get across with the Brent Mason demo is you can have the Vintage Deluxe Reverb tone at 22 watts, but also add another for larger gigs at 44 watts but still keep the Deluxe tone which seems to be the go to club amp these days.

Yes, probably.

I don't have a scanner, or I would build one.

There up for sale on ebay a LOT, cheap.

You need to stay out of the candy store!    

NOPE!     

And I found a new place to check out Rock N Roll Vintage in Chicago.

I have 60 acres on the water, bluff view on Norfork Lake Ark., it's listed/up for sale, God willing that if/when it sells I'll have my ducks in a row and I'm a gonna come out shootin!   

I told you I have always wanted to visit the place, but I know I would leave a poor man.

Well, when you come up we can also go to Rock N Roll Vintage in Chicago. Look them up.

[Willabe]

What's the deal with the Varistors?
Are they as hard to get as the Plutonium Space Modulator?

Yes, pretty much. There is a member here who still sells NOS on ebay from time to time. (I'm not sure who he is.)

"Styled like the original 280"

That schemo shows 8 varistors total, 2 per stage and there's 2 phase shift stages per channel. I only see 4 varistors in the chassis in the video clip. 

Current production replacements?

Yes, there's a company that still makes them. I think their in England? I contacted them and they would sell to me, but I had to buy, I don't recall, a dozen or 2 at a time? And they were pricey too.

[sluckey]

It's all speculation unless you can produce a schematic. I speculate that it's a stereo amp with a single stage vibrato modulator in each channel. Single stage sounds good. Even better in stereo. Dual stage per channel sounds better yet.

[Willabe]

It is a stereo amp, 4 @ 6V6, you can see the 2 OT's in the video link and they say so in the specs in the Magnatone website link I posted. 

Take a look at the back of the chassis (layout/tubes) and gut shots in this link? It's about half way thru the clip, @ 2:44.

https://youtu.be/1AUABlwq-y4

[sluckey]

I looked at all of it. That's why I speculated as I did.

[Willabe]

I looked at all of it. That's why I speculated as I did.

Ok, thanks. 

[shooter]

I'm a gonna come out shootin!

no one will notice in Chicago, or Arkansas 

[PRR]

> I only see 4 varistors in the gut shot.

I am speculating that each lump is a *dual* varistor. I see a middle leg on one. The 1961 patent shows varistors connected this way. A pre-made dual varistor may be more-likely "matched", both sides made at the same time.

[Willabe]

I'm a gonna come out shootin!

no one will notice in Chicago, or Arkansas 

Fine by me, I'll make a clean get away then! 

[Willabe]

> I only see 4 varistors in the gut shot.

I am speculating that each lump is a *dual* varistor. I see a middle leg on one. The 1961 patent shows varistors connected this way. A pre-made dual varistor may be more-likely "matched", both sides made at the same time.

That would be convenient for wiring them up.   

[sluckey]

I am speculating that each lump is a *dual* varistor.

That would make sense. The sound clips seem too lush for a simple single stage modulator.

[SILVERGUN]

In case anyone out there was thinking what I'm thinking, don't forget to use the search bar and type Magnatone varistors..
like: http://el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=15073.0

Lots of good reading out there

Thanks for that chart PRR ...fills in a big blank for me

[bnwitt]

Wow!  $3,400

[Willabe]

Wow!  $3,400

Yes but it's not a simple amp. Nor is it a simple sounding amp. 

Stereo 2 x 22w PP class AB 6V6's, 44w total, so 2 OT's which look pretty beefy, can be played mono/22w, can be played wet/dry or dry/wet into separate speakers, choke, 2 x 12" speakers, tube reverb with long spring tank, verb OT, + dual stage(?) pitch shift on 2 channels, 12 tubes. There's a LOT to this amp.
 

[SILVERGUN]

My brain hurts..I swear I'm just 3 IQ points off of greatness
http://dalmura.com.au/projects/Magnatone%20vibrato%20design.pdf

[Willabe]

My brain hurts..I swear I'm just 3 IQ points off of greatness
http://dalmura.com.au/projects/Magnatone%20vibrato%20design.pdf

IIRC, Metrosilis listed towards the end and is who I talked with a year or so ago. They still make the part and is probably where Magnatone is getting there's.

I've made a few phone inquiries to Magnatone dealers (Magnatones web site does not have a phone #) this morning and hopefully I'll get a solid answer back on if it's a single stages or dual stages of pitch shift.

[Ed_Chambley]

I believe what they were wanting to get across with the Brent Mason demo is you can have the Vintage Deluxe Reverb tone at 22 watts, but also add another for larger gigs at 44 watts but still keep the Deluxe tone which seems to be the go to club amp these days.

Yes, probably.

I don't have a scanner, or I would build one.

There up for sale on ebay a LOT, cheap.

You need to stay out of the candy store!    

NOPE!     

And I found a new place to check out Rock N Roll Vintage in Chicago.

I have 60 acres on the water, bluff view on Norfork Lake Ark., it's listed/up for sale, God willing that if/when it sells I'll have my ducks in a row and I'm a gonna come out shootin!   

I told you I have always wanted to visit the place, but I know I would leave a poor man.

Well, when you come up we can also go to Rock N Roll Vintage in Chicago. Look them up.

I like that, "When you come up!" you know I will, but by the tie I do we may be using walkers. That is ok tho, even if you are on 30 acres, I am sure we can bother someone with loud guitar, but of course with the first tonal quality around.


I know Rock and Roll Vintage, are you kidding me?  I still get Vintage Guitar in Print.


I have considered getting a scanner, but I consider a lot of stuff and I get sidetracked often too.  Right now I am trying to stay on the breadboard while doing renovations.


On another note, I saw a thread on another forum where a guy was working on a Varistor Circuit.  I believe K posted a little.  Don't know if he ever got it completed and working, but he was close.


The sad thing about these amps, like the 280.  A friend has one and will not sell it to me, but cannot afford to replace the varistors, but he has had me try all sort of varistors.  Some kinda work, but not well.  You gotta have the RIGHT one.  Other than the varistors, the amp is in really good condition.  I don't know if the original varistors were problematic, but it seems like everyone I know always keeps an eye out for them.  If it were my amp, I would buy some.

[Ed_Chambley]

So Brad, you can actually buy the correct varistors?  Even if you had to purchase 24, that would not be a lot unless these things are like $30 or more a piece.  Especially if PRR is correct, which I do not doubt.


The price is still sort of high for the amp IMO.  Consider a Fender Twin reissue.  PCB, Check.  Tubes, more expensive.  Iron, much more expensive even though the Maggie has 2 OT's, they are cheaper than the huge iron on a Twin.  That doesn't mean it will not sell as it is a better fit for most players and less are being made which makes them more.

[Tony Bones]

If Magnatone is manufacturing new amps with the circuit, then somewhere there is a factory manufacturing new varistors, possibly with three legs.

Maybe they're all wrong for vintage amps, maybe not. Maybe Magnatone will sell them. I don't care enough to chase the dream, but maybe someone else does.

[Willabe]

I listened to the NAMM show video again and they said the Twilighter is a single stage of pitch shift but that the Panoramic is a dual stage of pitch shift.

This would explain why I only liked the Twilighter in the stereo vibrato setting.

The Panoramic is a stereo amp but I don't know if they put the dual stage pitch shift on only 1 side? Meaning there's still only 4 x varistors in the amp? So 1 speaker would put out the dual stage vibrato and the other speaker would be dry.

I'm not sure that would sound any different then a single stage on both channels coming out in stereo?

Still waiting for the Magnatone engineer to call back, I'm not sure he will call me back? 
 

[jjasilli]

FWIW:  http://magnatoneamps.com/varistors.html