Replacement Tuner Gear Screws

[Willabe]

      
Does anybody know where to get #5-40x1/4" oval Philips head machine screws?     

I've spent ~several~ hours looking on line and I can't find any. 

There for a Valco made lap steel with 3 on a plate open tuners, with a black oxide finish? The machine screw holds the gear to the string shaft, so a lot of tension on them.

I ~think~ stainless is harder/stronger than plain steel? I could change all 6 to a stainless finish, if I could find ANY!             
 
Companies do make black oxide coated stainless machine screws............. but I can't even find any that make an oval Philips head #5-40 thread in plain zinc plated steel, let alone with a black oxide finish!!!!!!!       

[sluckey]

Have you tried Fastenal? Probably a store near you. Or you can search their website.

Or look at these eBay listings. Might find something you can use...

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=5-40+oval+screw&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.X5-40+1%2F4+screw.TRS0&_nkw=5-40+1%2F4+screw&_sacat=0

[Willabe]

Thanks Steve. 

Have you tried Fastenal? Probably a store near you. Or you can search their website.

Strangely enough there is a Fastenal store about a mile from me. I went there last week, they said they could order them, zinc plated steel, but I thought the price was a little high and they charge for shipping to the store. So I declined, I might have to go back there?

I thought it would be a slam dunk on line. But NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!       

I have bought a # of stainless machine screws/nuts from Albany County Fasteners and got free shipping. I'm going to call them and see if they will make them?

Heck at this point I think I'd pay $20 for a 1000 of them, if their black oxide stainless with a Philips oval head.     

Or look at these eBay listings. Might find something you can use...

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=5-40+oval+screw&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.X5-40+1%2F4+screw.TRS0&_nkw=5-40+1%2F4+screw&_sacat=0

Yes, there's a few that should work, flat head, button head. But the oval head does look nicer for trim in this application. OTOH, they are on the back side of the lap steel. 

BTW, I bought this set of screw extractors, from a different vendor, a little cheaper, to get the broken screw shank out and they worked great, once I put the string post in a vice to put some pressure on it with the extractor.
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Moody-Tools-Screw-Extractor-and-Screwdriver-Set-58-0670/262852776049?_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D44942%26meid%3Dea42818c2d594e4b9808abbddc56f073%26pid%3D100033%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D7%26sd%3D172678532360

 

[Ed_Chambley]

By saying "oval" head, do you mean Button head as the opposite to countersunk?


I have a real hardware store a few miles away, you know, like a real hardware store.  They would have these, no problem.  If you still have one, go check it out.


Check McMaster Carr?

[Willabe]

Their countersunk with an oval/rounded top.

I tried Ace hardware, nothin.

I'll try McMaster Carr, thanks.     (Meh! McMaster Carr, no 5-40.) 




 

[Ed_Chambley]

That is traditionally a wood screw.  If you look at the Botton head hex you will find them.  Allen wrench and they have a flat bottom, but will probably cover nicely.


Like these


https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=5-40+1%2F4+screw+philips&_sop=15&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.X5-40+1%2F4+screw+button+hex.TRS0&_nkw=5-40+1%2F4+screw+button+hex&_sacat=0


I started using hex head bolts a number of years ago.  I much prefer them on projects.   To me they look better and always easy to get a wrench on them.  Of course, I have many socket types with short and long shaft.  Bondhus makes the best T handle.
https://www.zoro.com/bondhus-bondhus-hex-t-handle-set-13390/i/G0637920/feature-product/b?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIptCd8NOT1QIVloKzCh3DOgOUEAYYASABEgKeHvD_BwE

[Ed_Chambley]

Fastenal has them, not in a #5.  #4 and #6.


But you can get them here.


https://www.boltdepot.com/Machine_screws_Phillips_oval_head_Stainless_steel_18-8_4-40.aspx


Sorry, no #5

[rake]

Try here. They're 3/8" but could be shortened.

http://www.fastenermart.com/SC174-2612.html

[Willabe]

Thank you Rake, but I'd rather not have to shorten them.

I know someone still makes them as they still use them on tuners.

Besides what's the big deal anyway, it's not a rocket ship part. 

At this point it just bugs me.     

[drgonzonm]

.....

Besides what's the big deal anyway, it's not a rocket ship part. 

At this point it just bugs me.      ....

Sometimes I am not so sure.  some of the dudes on the forum are pretty serious  (There was a couple amps called rockets??)

While I wouldn't normally shorten them either.  If you do, put a nut on the screw first, trim, then unscrew.  don't forget to taper the ends of the screw, grinding away from the head, 
1/4 inch is too short to leave the nut on, but if you have to reshape the threads, split a nut, and unscrew using a nut driver to hold the two halves together. 

[G._Hoffman]

Stainless isn't always "stronger" than other steels - it depends on the specific alloy - but it is much slower to corrode, so it lasts longer.  Even when it is stronger, it is a lot more brittle, so you have to be a lot more careful about stripping out the heads. 

I buy most of my tuning machine screws like that from McMaster-Carr.


Gabriel

[drgonzonm]

Stainless isn't always "stronger" than other steels - it depends on the specific alloy - but it is much slower to corrode, so it lasts longer.  Even when it is stronger, it is a lot more brittle, so you have to be a lot more careful about stripping out the heads. 

I buy most of my tuning machine screws like that from McMaster-Carr.


Gabriel

not a big fan of the word "stronger" or the descriptor stainless steel;  Both terms very ambiguous. 
In the case of machine screws, you probably want something that is resistant to  corrosion, not so easily stripped (head and threads) does not easily gall, and in this case, the right size and correct head and threads.  Not always easy to source as the thread points out. 

[Willabe]

Well, I got a replacement screw from a guitar shop that saves old tuners. 

I really don't know what thread size it is. It's not 4-40 and it's not 5-40.     A 4-40 screw fits the string post/shaft end hole but it wobbles a lot but a 5-40 screw will NOT go into the string post/shafts end hole. Yet the original screw will NOT fit in a 4-40 nut but will fit into a 5-40 nut nicely. It seems like a 40TPI but the screw shank size seems to be in between a #4 and #5.     
 
Now I just need to put it all back together. 

[G._Hoffman]

Well, I got a replacement screw from a guitar shop that saves old tuners. 

I really don't know what thread size it is. It's not 4-40 and it's not 5-40.     A 4-40 screw fits the string post/shaft end hole but it wobbles a lot but a 5-40 screw will NOT go into the string post/shafts end hole. Yet the original screw will NOT fit in a 4-40 nut but will fit into a 5-40 nut nicely. It seems like a 40TPI but the screw shank size seems to be in between a #4 and #5.     
 
Now I just need to put it all back together. 

m3 x 0.6mm.  1/40 = 0.025" X 25.4 = 0.635mm.  Which is to say, plenty close for a undersized screw to seem tolerable.  Nominal size for a 4-40 screw is .1120" x 25.4 = 2.84mm, which sounds like exactly the fit you describe.


Gabriel

[Willabe]

Yeah I tried a few metric screws, no go and a few gun screws, 4-44(?) and 4-48(?), nothing I found would fit.

I'm happy now with the replacement.