Strat Guys HELP!!!!!!

[Ed_Chambley]

Attached is a Photo of what is considered a 62 RI Strat, however it is Ice Blue with a painted Headstock.  It had a 9.5 radius and 22 frets.  S-1 Switching and First Generation noiseless pups.  It does have a serial number on the neck plate beginning with a "V".


I know Fender did this in 2005.  Since I do not know a lot about these Reissues anyone have any thoughts on this?  I mean how can it be considered a Reissue and still have all the modern features?  Anyone know this guitar.  It is slab rosewood and I have played the guitar.  Played fine, but doesn't sound as good as it could.  PUPS I am certain.


Any info and experiences with these would be welcomed. Thanks

[jojokeo]

American Vintage Reissue models (AVRI) series. These have serial numbers starting with V and do not strictly correlate to years. The neck dates on these guitars, however, are usually reliable.

[Ed_Chambley]

American Vintage Reissue models (AVRI) series. These have serial numbers starting with V and do not strictly correlate to years. The neck dates on these guitars, however, are usually reliable.

I know what yo are saying here, but how in the hell is this considered a 62 AVRI when it has 22 frets and many other things most reissues I have played are quite different.  Painted headstock for instance.  The ONLY thing I can find out that even resembles a 62 is the ash body.


The reason I am asking is I know where I can get one that has the origin strings and everything.  It was purchased as part of a collection. The collector of the instruments is no longer with us.  I have been asked to sell the collection and considering selling a couple to me.


Is this model desirable?  They list for around 1500, but generally sell for about $1100.  This one is sort os special having never been played.  Got any idea what it would sell for in brand new condition with registration card, hang tags and all the items that came when new.  Even the handle of the case still has the plastic wrapper on it.

[Willabe]

American Vintage Reissue models (AVRI) series. These have serial numbers starting with V and do not strictly correlate to years. The neck dates on these guitars, however, are usually reliable.

Yes, I've read that before looking for the year mine was made.

My plate #V021140, neck heal written in pencil says; 10/24/86.

I think it's from 1 of the early reissue series Fender put out. I bought it new so I don't think anyone swapped the body, neck or neck plate.   

[Willabe]

The ONLY thing I can find out that even resembles a 62 is the ash body.

      Their Fender, they can call it what they what and build it like they what, it's good to be king.

I have been asked to sell the collection and considering selling a couple to me.

 

[jojokeo]

It's kind of sketchy Ed during "Fender's" latter days and when the custom shop crew bought the company and started restoring the good Fender name w/ quality guitars once again. Then there was some overseas confusion and makes, that extended into the reissues, etc.

Going by that limited photo it makes things even more difficult to assess. But seeing that painted headstock, err sort of seeing it - it makes me think immediately 'Japanese model'. This isn't necessarily a bad thing. I have an old all black Japanese Tele (shut up Jimbo!!!  ) with painted headstock, humbuckers, coil tap, great locking trem system, and plays like butter. The early Japanese Fenders are actually sought after by a number of people because of their quality.

I'd definitely mark the price down on that one if I was to sell it to myself!? 

[Ed_Chambley]

Here is where I placed the listing.  The contact is the Son of the lady who has the guitars.


https://reverb.com/p/fender-american-vintage-62-reissue-stratocaster?gclid=Cj0KCQiA84rQBRDCARIsAPO8RFyxW19wf18_PTl3ohPEl5lIeHngrUy43EseOhcwSUa08OODCaR76q4aAvpSEALw_wcB&hfid=6953661


Lots more photos.  This one is supposed to be an American Strat. 


In no way would I mark down any guitar value someone has trusted me to sell.  That is why I am asking about this one.  I suggested them list it at top dollar, but I can buy it for a bit less since they understand they will most likely take a lower offer.  IOW, I can get it for their best offer less 15%.  Just trying to get a better idea is all.

[jojokeo]

In no way would I mark down any guitar value someone has trusted me to sell.  That is why I am asking about this one.  I suggested them list it at top dollar, but I can buy it for a bit less since they understand they will most likely take a lower offer.  IOW, I can get it for their best offer less 15%.  Just trying to get a better idea is all.

I know you wouldn't take advantage of anyone Ed least not a widow & family in such a situation. That'd be bad juju karma for sure. The 15% reduction was what I was implying in light of your time and helping them, not taking advantage. It looks real nice. I want to buy almost every Strat I see like that and others, especially when you see all the case candy, the ash tray bridge, etc. Did you notice though that other re-issues don't have the painted headstock? That to me doesn't seem very American and more Japanese made - not that it couldn't or wouldn't be American made but very unusual...

[Ed_Chambley]

In no way would I mark down any guitar value someone has trusted me to sell.  That is why I am asking about this one.  I suggested them list it at top dollar, but I can buy it for a bit less since they understand they will most likely take a lower offer.  IOW, I can get it for their best offer less 15%.  Just trying to get a better idea is all.

I know you wouldn't take advantage of anyone Ed least not a widow & family in such a situation. That'd be bad juju karma for sure. The 15% reduction was what I was implying in light of your time and helping them, not taking advantage. It looks real nice. I want to buy almost every Strat I see like that and others, especially when you see all the case candy, the ash tray bridge, etc. Did you notice though that other re-issues don't have the painted headstock? That to me doesn't seem very American and more Japanese made - not that it couldn't or wouldn't be American made but very unusual...

It is unusual for sure.  I emailed customer service at Fender and they verified it was the ONLY American 62 RI that has painted headstock.  The noted the skunk stripe.  I have a Japanese Strat I am working on fro a guy and it is very nice, but I have never seen one with the stripe.


I prefer all the modern appointments, but I too have a hard time passing on Geetars in this condition.  Too many things to like, you know.  Here is the grind.  Since Fender decided to make a 62 RI that has very little in common with a 62 I am afraid if I get it and play it (and I will play the thing you know) will the value tank.


I am weird, I know it.  I just have a hard time purchasing any guitar that may drop in value as I never have.  Same way with amps and pedals.  The only guitar I have ever gotten brand new was a custom a guy built recently for me.  It is good thing a friend of mine fell in love with it and bought it instead of me.  Don't get me wrong, great guitar.  I just knew I would never put down my Suhr to pick it up.


I am leery of a lot of Fenders for value, but I too am a sucker for Ash Tray and case candy.  Best offer so far is $1200 and they said I could have it for $1000, but I told them to give it a little more time.  This guitar as a player is worth more than $1000.  I mean it really plays great and feels better than my new Strat, which really is not new, but almost new.  The newest one is the slate blue and WOW is it nice.  I got it in Asheville NC as a floor demo listed for $1400 and got it for $900.


Here is the crazy thing.  I have looked for a Strat I liked for a long time and I know you know this, but I'll bet you didn't know I have been looking for over 25 years.  Now within 2 months I found 2 and what really sucks is I actually like the feel of the 2005 model better.


I will not keep both.  That is what I am telling myself.  I do not need 8 of the damn things like someone I know.  I am not asking Jimbob either as I know his answer.  Get the rosewood and get rid the maple.  But you know I play a maple board tele a lot so it feels familiar.  Something about 62 RI rosewood that makes it feel substantial over the maple.


To make things worse, I was just offered a brand new 52 Swamp ash blackguard body and quartersawn neck.  I just got my amps sold off and now it looks as if I will be getting too many guitars.


Just say no to drugs!  Man, what a hard thing to do.

[jojokeo]

It is unusual for sure.  I emailed customer service at Fender and they verified it was the ONLY American 62 RI that has painted headstock.

Since Fender decided to make a 62 RI that has very little in common with a 62 I am afraid if I get it and play it (and I will play the thing you know) will the value tank.

Here is the crazy thing.  I have looked for a Strat I liked for a long time and I know you know this, but I'll bet you didn't know I have been looking for over 25 years.  Now within 2 months I found 2 and what really sucks is I actually like the feel of the 2005 model better.


I will not keep both.  That is what I am telling myself.  I do not need 8 of the damn things like someone I know.  I am not asking Jimbob either as I know his answer.  Get the rosewood and get rid the maple.  But you know I play a maple board tele a lot so it feels familiar.  Something about 62 RI rosewood that makes it feel substantial over the maple.


I just got my amps sold off and now it looks as if I will be getting too many guitars.

The ONLY painted headstock?! WOW! That is a rare bird. Like a '65 Shelby Mustang with all matching numbers...

I have a friend that buys stuff and doesn't play them - very much. And when he does he overly careful making sure to not wear a belt, lay down a small towel, careful to not pick where it'll scrape anything leaving marks, etc. This to me is horrendous on so many levels. I give so much crap about it but some people are just weird this way. Seeing everything so pristine is exactly what makes me want to pick it up play the dang thang! Let's get it singing already and see what she can do?!

25 YEARS??? Holy moly you are a patient man! If you were half way decent at lutherie work (or knew someone ;)) then things shouldn't have taken so long? 


Who's got 8 Strats? Certainly not Jimbo! What does he know?    Yeah, I like both fretboard woods, and even ebony aint too shabby either. It's like having a blonde, brunette, and a red head to play with whenever the mood strikes (oh how those young days were fun) >:)


Is it really possible to have too many guitars? Ask Joe Bonno that question? 

[Ritchie200]

Drive it like you stole it.  It's not a real one (50's) so who gives a crap.

My go to guitar for years was a (I believe Korean?) maple neck/fingerboard strat copy complete with skunk stripe that made me sell my real Strat rosewood.  I really beat the crap out of this guitar running it down the mic stand, speaker cabinets, and banged on the floor.  It was indestructible and it played like butter.  It wasn't until I picked up my MIJ Ritchie Strat that I fell in love with the rosewood again.  I've said it before and I'll say it again, that Ritchie Strat is 10 times nicer than any MIA Strat I played back in the 60's and 70's. - much less the MIA stuff of the last 20 years and any vintage models that I've played at the collectors stores.  Fit, finish, attention to the slightest detail - no comparison.  Sad but true and you know I'm a Red White and Blue guy.

Ed you need to dump some of that Suhr crap you are so enamored with....  Gotta make room for some real guitars!

Jim 

[Ritchie200]

Retired road warrior...

[Ritchie200]

And if you have bigger hands....

[Ed_Chambley]

It is unusual for sure.  I emailed customer service at Fender and they verified it was the ONLY American 62 RI that has painted headstock.

Since Fender decided to make a 62 RI that has very little in common with a 62 I am afraid if I get it and play it (and I will play the thing you know) will the value tank.

Here is the crazy thing.  I have looked for a Strat I liked for a long time and I know you know this, but I'll bet you didn't know I have been looking for over 25 years.  Now within 2 months I found 2 and what really sucks is I actually like the feel of the 2005 model better.


I will not keep both.  That is what I am telling myself.  I do not need 8 of the damn things like someone I know.  I am not asking Jimbob either as I know his answer.  Get the rosewood and get rid the maple.  But you know I play a maple board tele a lot so it feels familiar.  Something about 62 RI rosewood that makes it feel substantial over the maple.


I just got my amps sold off and now it looks as if I will be getting too many guitars.

The ONLY painted headstock?! WOW! That is a rare bird. Like a '65 Shelby Mustang with all matching numbers...

I have a friend that buys stuff and doesn't play them - very much. And when he does he overly careful making sure to not wear a belt, lay down a small towel, careful to not pick where it'll scrape anything leaving marks, etc. This to me is horrendous on so many levels. I give so much crap about it but some people are just weird this way. Seeing everything so pristine is exactly what makes me want to pick it up play the dang thang! Let's get it singing already and see what she can do?!

25 YEARS??? Holy moly you are a patient man! If you were half way decent at lutherie work (or knew someone ;)) then things shouldn't have taken so long? 


Who's got 8 Strats? Certainly not Jimbo! What does he know?    Yeah, I like both fretboard woods, and even ebony aint too shabby either. It's like having a blonde, brunette, and a red head to play with whenever the mood strikes (oh how those young days were fun) >:)


Is it really possible to have too many guitars? Ask Joe Bonno that question? 

Alright now, I have not insinuated you really do not know what a good guitar is, but if you think I cannot setup a guitar and do frets, you sir, are sadly mistaken.  To even make such a suggestion tells me you have really not had a "good or great" version of the guitars you own and really think all you have to do is "set it up right" and have the proper frets and wiring.


As you stated, "If you were half way decent at lutherie work".


BTW, the above if taken seriously is the rudest comment you have ever made to me, so I am assuming you meant it as a joke!


I even played one of Jimmy Olander's strats made by Joe Glacier and neither one of us liked it.  If you do not know Jimmy Olander, just search Youtube.  Glasier is the most respected luthier in music city.  I now it is not LA or the west coast, but there are a couple of decent guitar players around Nashville and a few to them know a good fit and finish too.  I will not even mention all the acoustic builders in the southeast.


Now I know he is not Eddie, who you have guitars from, but Glacier pulled guitars out of the flood and I played a 335 he repaired which was in pieces.  He left the all unfinished as did with many of the instruments that were found after the flood.  It was absolutely ugly, but played glorious. 


Really, how hard is it to use a pre radii sanding bock for the fingerboard, set 22 frets, level the fingerboard, mark the crowns with a sharpie and sand with a 28" piece of corian until the sharpie is gone from the crown.  Then add a touch more pressure from fret 12 to 22 and sand just a smidge more.  Recrown the frets and use my special polish to make the frets slick and shiny.  Then put it back together.  Wow, I am sweating my ass off thinking about all that difficult half assed work I have ahead of me.


Joe, I believe you may have misunderstood.  I did not write I couldn't find a well playing Strat, I wrote I could not find one I was happy with.  There is a difference!


I now have 2 as I did buy the Rosewood one yesterday.

[Ed_Chambley]

Drive it like you stole it.  It's not a real one (50's) so who gives a crap.

My go to guitar for years was a (I believe Korean?) maple neck/fingerboard strat copy complete with skunk stripe that made me sell my real Strat rosewood.  I really beat the crap out of this guitar running it down the mic stand, speaker cabinets, and banged on the floor.  It was indestructible and it played like butter.  It wasn't until I picked up my MIJ Ritchie Strat that I fell in love with the rosewood again.  I've said it before and I'll say it again, that Ritchie Strat is 10 times nicer than any MIA Strat I played back in the 60's and 70's. - much less the MIA stuff of the last 20 years and any vintage models that I've played at the collectors stores.  Fit, finish, attention to the slightest detail - no comparison.  Sad but true and you know I'm a Red White and Blue guy.

Ed you need to dump some of that Suhr crap you are so enamored with....  Gotta make room for some real guitars!

Jim 

Jim,
I now have 2, a rosewood and maple.  I already know you have never had the pleasure of playing a Suhr.  Amazing in the stock lineup.  The custom ones are not even in the same realm with production guitars anywhere.


Contempt prior to investigation will leave an individual in everlasting ignorance.

[jojokeo]

As you stated, "If you were half way decent at lutherie work".


BTW, the above if taken seriously is the rudest comment you have ever made to me, so I am assuming you meant it as a joke!

Of course it wasn't meant to be rude and discourteous Ed! How is your day going? I won't comment on anything else.

[Ed_Chambley]

As you stated, "If you were half way decent at lutherie work".


BTW, the above if taken seriously is the rudest comment you have ever made to me, so I am assuming you meant it as a joke!

Of course it wasn't meant to be rude and discourteous Ed! How is your day going? I won't comment on anything else.

Its all good.


I didn't mean anything, that is why I said a joke.  Day is going great.


Comment all you want.  All I was saying is I have played a lot of nice playing guitars and have some now.  But you know some are just a bit different and these are personal to you.  You cannot order that, because it is not about everything being perfect.  It is you old go to guitar.

[Ritchie200]

Contempt prior to investigation will leave an individual in everlasting ignorance.

Ed,

If you were halfway decent at lutherie work you would see and appreciate the elegant sophistication that is a Strat and realize (as immortalized by the Metallica boys), "nothing else matterrrsah".  So, your journey to enlightenment is still a work in progress.  I would suggest a 12 hour session of Made in Japan on repeat followed by at least 8 hours of video from the California Jam, also on repeat.  Daily application as needed until you are ready to make a Suhr fire in the fireplace.

Jim - I am not joking....  I never joke....

[Ed_Chambley]

Contempt prior to investigation will leave an individual in everlasting ignorance.

Ed,

If you were halfway decent at lutherie work you would see and appreciate the elegant sophistication that is a Strat and realize (as immortalized by the Metallica boys), "nothing else matterrrsah".  So, your journey to enlightenment is still a work in progress.  I would suggest a 12 hour session of Made in Japan on repeat followed by at least 8 hours of video from the California Jam, also on repeat.  Daily application as needed until you are ready to make a Suhr fire in the fireplace.

Jim - I am not joking....  I never joke....

Jim, all you do is joke!!!!!!!!!!!  Well that and put up drug videos.


Jimbob, here is the deal.  I now have 2 Fender Stratocasters.  The first one, the newer one I like the sound of and it has stock 54 Fender Pups and rolled steel block.  I did order some Hipshot open gear locking tuners that you can order in staggered heights.  No string trees.  The is how Shur does it.  That and listening to John Suhr about how to make a vintage tremolo stay in tune, you can beat on the bar now or throw it down stairs and it will stay in tune.

[Ed_Chambley]

On to my latest arrival.  62 AVRI FSR Vintage Players Deluxe Stratocaster in Ice Blue with a painted headstock, which Fender confirmed was done in 62.  This guitar still had the plastic on the case handle and has the original strings.  Cannot find a scratch and even the Rosewood Fingerboard still has finish on the fret ends which will wear off in a week or 2.  It was also dry, but after a bit of mineral oil it darkened up and smoothed out nice.


I don't think I have ever seen a painted headstock on a fender older than 80's, but they say it is so.


I need some input since I cannot stand Noiseless PUPS from Fender.  I am going to remove the entire white pick guard and replace everything connected.


What I have noticed in playing real vintage Strats is the output is really low.  This makes them sound more like what my mind says a Strat sounds like.  Also, it is very common for the middle pup to have more resistance, which I thought should be lower since it is very common to make it a blender.   I know because I started measuring them a long time ago.


Lowell George actually used a Telecaster PUP in the bridge which sounded good, but he lost a good series Bridge/Middle since the PUP output was much more.  This day and time I should be able to get a single coil that is tapped for 2 different outputs.


Here is what I think would work.


PUP Neck-5.4K Alnico3
Pup Middle-5.6k Alnico 3
Pup Bridge-8.7K Alnico 5 and a tap at 5.2K when switching to Bridge Middle.


I will have to polish the frets.  No wear and almost green.  They still have that sloppy end dress Fender does, don't know why they do not round fret ends.  Anyway, not a big deal.


The rest is fine:
Ash
Quarter-saw Maple neck with Brazilian Slab Rosewood
9.5 Radius, which is why it is a FSR, this and the noiseless pups and S-1 switching.
Bone Nut
6 Screw Vintage Tremolo with Rolled Steel block and hardened screws.
Fender Jumbo medium, Dunlop 6130 and are .103 x .036


Of course the neck pocket does not have tilt and I have yet to take it apart, but it does fit tight.


So looking for a pickup winder.  I will speak with Don Mare, but if anyone has had a good experience getting custom winds, please let me know.

[jojokeo]

So looking for a pickup winder.  I will speak with Don Mare, but if anyone has had a good experience getting custom winds, please let me know.

Lindy F, great dude and products plus you can call him and he'll answer or call you back. I love his split blades

[Willabe]

.....  That and listening to John Suhr about how to make a vintage tremolo stay in tune, you can beat on the bar now or throw it down stairs and it will stay in tune.

Soooooo, what did John Suhr tell you about how to set up a vintage tremolo? 

[jojokeo]

Ed,

Forgot to add - I highly suggest you wire up the new pu's using a Blender control making the Tone and Vol controls both masters. There's no visible signs of what you did and nothing close to permanent. It's simply how you wire the 5 pos switch, the Tone pot, and the Blender pot.

I leave the Vol & Tone pots where they are and make the middle the Blender. It's most intuitive this way. Then simply roll back the middle pot and you have sweet sweet Tele sound... among all of the others and advantages you just can't get any way else. Being a Tele guy this is mandatory for you! All of my single coil Strats are modded this way. It's stealthy good, nobody knows what/why you can attain sounds that they can't >:)

I make my "no-load" pots for the Tone and Blender controls. Simply take the back cover off and file away the trace at the far side position. This way all the way up they are completely out of circuit.

[Ed_Chambley]

Ed,

Forgot to add - I highly suggest you wire up the new pu's using a Blender control making the Tone and Vol controls both masters. There's no visible signs of what you did and nothing close to permanent. It's simply how you wire the 5 pos switch, the Tone pot, and the Blender pot.

I leave the Vol & Tone pots where they are and make the middle the Blender. It's most intuitive this way. Then simply roll back the middle pot and you have sweet sweet Tele sound... among all of the others and advantages you just can't get any way else. Being a Tele guy this is mandatory for you! All of my single coil Strats are modded this way. It's stealthy good, nobody knows what/why you can attain sounds that they can't >:)

I make my "no-load" pots for the Tone and Blender controls. Simply take the back cover off and file away the trace at the far side position. This way all the way up they are completely out of circuit.

I spoke with Lindy.  He is going to use Neck and Middle as the 54 standard which are lower output.  Both are around 5.7K with the middle being just a little higher.  The Vintage Hot 54 used in the bridge which is a 5% overwound.  This is basically the set Nash guitars uses.


So, I got him to simply build a loaded pick guard and to tap the bridge, thus lowering the output to equal the middle when you switch from Bridge only to Bridge middle.  He is going to wire it up with a blender, so it will have Master Volume, Blender and Master Tone.


It is on order and he said he would make it today and ship it tomorrow.  Very nice guy.  I used one of his Blues Specials Telecaster Bridge and did not like it at all.  I voiced this concern to him as the PUP would not mellow no matter how low I ran it.


He said it is supposed to, which I guess is fine if you must use a single coil, but I use them for the Airy Clean.  The precise reason I do not like Fender Noiseless.  Anyway, he said he generally will not take back a PUP he has altered like the bridge on this order, but said he would anyway if I did not like them.

[Ed_Chambley]

.....  That and listening to John Suhr about how to make a vintage tremolo stay in tune, you can beat on the bar now or throw it down stairs and it will stay in tune.

Soooooo, what did John Suhr tell you about how to set up a vintage tremolo? 

First, make sure your pick guard clears it well.  Mine did and you probably will too, but he said aftermarket sometimes are not cut properly for the tremolo.  Remove the tremolo screws and either get hardened ones like they use to be, or harden them yourself with heat and oil bath.  Then polish them.


Next make sure no finish is on the body under the tremolo. I marked lightly with a pencil and removed the paint where the tremolo sits.  Using a drill bit a touch larger than the factory holes, enlarge the holes.  First time I did I only drilled a very little and it still would not rock back and fourth.  Then I took it back off and used one of the screws to see how tight it still was.  Keep in mind you have 6 screws and the tremolo unit must be able to return to its original position.  if it binds any it will not be in tune.  I ended up drilling the holes about half the size of the screw heads.


The rear, if floating should be 1/8" above the body when in tune.  This is to insure you keep tension from springs to strings. I use Chapstick on the nut and cut it a bit more.  From Fender it was 1/16" from the bottom of the strings to the fingerboard at the nut when pressed at the first fret.  I removed about half. when tightening down the screws I took them all to an even snug fit, then backed off 1/8 turn.  Just enough where I could move the plate under the screws.


When done, you have nothing that will bind and the balance will not change due to something binding.


Then I installed Hipshot Staggered Locking Tuners.  They make a Vintage version to fit the smaller hole which I ordered for the new guitar.


The hipshot comes in 3 heights, but I decided to use 4 short ones for string 1-4 and the middle height for 5 and 6.  I was concerned with the D string buzz at the nut.  I have none and it worked great.  No string trees, proper cut and lubed nut and a tremolo that will not bind and has equal pull from strings to springs.


If nothing binds, it has to work.  John is always checking posting on the Suhr forum and he was a Custom Shop builder for Fender.  If you post a question, he will answer.

[Willabe]

Thanks Ed. 

[jojokeo]

Ed, if you want nice clean spank and punch I would never go with a “blues” style/wound pickup(s) for the reason I think you’re describing? However I got a blues split blade set from him but I forget the winding resistance at the moment. I’m sure I have it written down on my computer. But to counteract or rather increase and return the brightness I used 500k pots I’m pretty sure. That along with the Tone especially and the Blender pots being out of circuit with the no-loads makes things really nice. I don’t always play with the Tone out of circuit but it is there if I want it. I really like Lindy and you can’t beat that personal customer service with a stick? 😀 I hope it goes well as planned?! Be sure to report back-