Kemper Story

[Ritchie200]

One of my all time favorite guitar players is Mark Tremonti (Creed, Alter Bridge, Tremonti). His stage rig is a thing of beauty and is a loud screeching monster when he plays.  There are numerous microphones hanging over it to capture the wonderful high pressure dB goodness.  See reference pic.

Maybe because it was a flyaway, but there is video of Mark in front of a small rack with two kempers and a 4x12 NOT MICED at a festival in Europe!!!  The world is officially spinning out of control.....   If Trower ever shows up with one, the apocalypse is around the corner...

Jim

[EL34]

We are doomed!!!!

[SILVERGUN]

It's even worse than we could have imagined...

[Ed_Chambley]

I heard someone say we were doomed when people were using an Ice Cube in Fender amps instead of their verb.


I have played a Kemper a number of times now.  If you only look at the capability of the units effects and the sound quality, it really is not a bad value at all.  I mean it does way more than a Klon.

[SILVERGUN]

For those of us under 50:
https://reverb.com/item/1405116-nos-ice-cube-ii-sustain-unit-for-all-fender-reverb-amps-made-1978-and-after

[Ed_Chambley]

You do know I did that on purpose.


Na, the ones that fit the blackface were blue.

[SILVERGUN]

You do know I did that on purpose.

Nah...I'm not that bright

Na, the ones that fit the blackface were blue.

I heard that the blue ones made a BF sound just like a Major and I've also read that the Kemper makes all other amps obsolete.
So, I guess someone has a pile of KT88s to send me?

[Ritchie200]

Wow, you mean girls are hanging out with the wrong kinds of people on the wrong side of the tracks in the wrong side of town.  I would never post things to make light of a very serous concern of another forum member.  There is a dark menacing presence around here that has tainted the very fabric of these threads.  And I think I know who it is.......

[Ritchie200]

Sorry SG, there is a warning label on these that say, "EXTREME CAUTION! These tubes are only to be used in a manly mans amp to be operated only by a manly man certainly only played by a manly man and can only be looked at by a manly man." on the silver mountain.  See what I did there?

Jim

DON"T LOOK!

[Ritchie200]

I warned you....

[jojokeo]

Wow, you mean girls are hanging out with the wrong kinds of people on the wrong side of the tracks in the wrong side of town.  I would never post things to make light of a very serous concern of another forum member.  There is a dark menacing presence around here that has tainted the very fabric of these threads.  And I think I know who it is.......

The "Dark Lord" looks familiar? I am very suspicious here because he looks way too happy to be "dark"? Is that a KT88 in his pocket or is he just glad to see me?! 

[Ed_Chambley]

You do know I did that on purpose.

Nah...I'm not that bright

Na, the ones that fit the blackface were blue.

I heard that the blue ones made a BF sound just like a Major and I've also read that the Kemper makes all other amps obsolete.
So, I guess someone has a pile of KT88s to send me?

Ok, I am out to the woods again and I see you guys are having too much fun.


I can tell you a problem with the Kemper.  It is sort of like playing with someone who just bought 4 new guitars.  The cannot seem to decide what sounds best.  Last Saturday I heard a band play a rocked up version (sucked bad) Wayfaring Stranger and the guy playing was Profiling a Kemper.  (See what I did there?)  Had a tone very similar to a Freidman BE100 running an Ibanez Prestige with EMG humbuckers.  Couldn't understand the lyrics.  Big crowd and I heard a lot of people wondering what the song was because the ONLY person who sounded like this was of course, a guitar player.   Why do they do this?


Of course, this is a very old song and has traveled through Old Time music, Bluegrass, Blues and now more comonly Jazz since it lends itself well to inversions and substitutions.  Johnny Cash recorded it a couple of times, but it has been around a long time.


In this instance, the Kemper was fine, but according to the promoter of the festival, it made the band obsolete.


Should have selected the I am a pilgram profile in the Kemper.  Everything has it place.

[Ed_Chambley]

Wow, you mean girls are hanging out with the wrong kinds of people on the wrong side of the tracks in the wrong side of town.  I would never post things to make light of a very serous concern of another forum member.  There is a dark menacing presence around here that has tainted the very fabric of these threads.  And I think I know who it is.......

The "Dark Lord" looks familiar? I am very suspicious here because he looks way too happy to be "dark"? Is that a KT88 in his pocket or is he just glad to see me?!

Yes, by golly it is a KT88 in his pocket, but Jimbob says it is a dud.

[Willabe]

Yes, by golly it is a KT88 in his pocket, but Jimbob says it is a dud.

[SILVERGUN]

Yes, by golly it is a KT88 in his pocket, but Jimbob says it is a dud.

Wow Ed, that was funny enough to bring someone out of retirement

.......Everything has it place.

Indeed.

I'd like to go back and respond to the OP:
I'm pretty sure that Tremonti is using a Kemper cause Bogner, Mesa and Bludo all chipped in and bought him one.
Anything to get their name off of his backline. No one wants to say "WE are responsible for Mark Tremonti's tone!"
Even PRS can blame the Koreans.

[jojokeo]

Wow, you mean girls are hanging out with the wrong kinds of people on the wrong side of the tracks in the wrong side of town.  I would never post things to make light of a very serous concern of another forum member.  There is a dark menacing presence around here that has tainted the very  fabric of these threads.  And I think I know who it is.......

The "Dark Lord" looks familiar? I am very suspicious here because he looks way too happy to be "dark"? Is that a KT88 in his pocket or is he just glad to see me?!

Yes, by golly it is a KT88 in his pocket, but he says it is a dud.

One of my all time favorite guitar players is Mark Tremonti (Creed, Alter Bridge, Tremonti). His rig...a loud screeching monster

Jim

OMG Creed...one of THE biggest "whiney white boy" bands of all time! There's a reason they are one of the most hated. But as one of the OP's main pet peeves spoken over and over again, I guess they get a pass (due to the man crush)? 


I'd be remiss not to also mention (thanks Ed) that his favorite song "arms wide open"  doesn’t appear to be the only thing wide open?!?!     

[SILVERGUN]

One of my all time favorite guitar players is Mark Tremonti (Creed, Alter Bridge, Tremonti).

This is like saying:
-One of my favorite places to shop is Walmart
-One of my favorite cars was a Pinto
-One of my favorite foods is Spam
-One of my favorite guitars is a Schecter
-One of my favorite places to vacation is Disney
-One of my favorite bands is Rainbow
-One of my favorite TV shows was The Golden Girls

...must I go on? 
 

[Ed_Chambley]

Wow, you mean girls are hanging out with the wrong kinds of people on the wrong side of the tracks in the wrong side of town.  I would never post things to make light of a very serous concern of another forum member.  There is a dark menacing presence around here that has tainted the very  fabric of these threads.  And I think I know who it is.......

The "Dark Lord" looks familiar? I am very suspicious here because he looks way too happy to be "dark"? Is that a KT88 in his pocket or is he just glad to see me?!

Yes, by golly it is a KT88 in his pocket, but he says it is a dud.

One of my all time favorite guitar players is Mark Tremonti (Creed, Alter Bridge, Tremonti). His rig...a loud screeching monster

Jim

OMG Creed...one of THE biggest "whiney white boy" bands of all time! There's a reason they are one of the most hated. But as one of the OP's main pet peeves spoken over and over again, I guess they get a pass (due to the man crush)? 


I'd be remiss not to also mention (thanks Ed) that his favorite song "arms wide open"  doesn’t appear to be the only thing wide open?!?!     

Thanks for reminding me of this tune.  "Whennnnnnn I tole Ben Her, the newes toDay.

[Ed_Chambley]

I cannot remember how to insert youtube links.  So here is something to help this thread survive Creed.

[Ritchie200]

Wow SG, we have the same favs!  You da man!  And Ed, watch and learn.  Mark left Creed.  You play country.  Drop mic.....

[Ed_Chambley]

So much distortion I cannot believe anyone who is a Blackmore fan would even compare.  With this much gain, you cannot even tell if the playing is clean.  I hate to tell you, but country music is not the only thing I play.  I play Bluegrass too, even Banjo.  I have a Osborne Chief.  I play music that is appropriate to the audience because that is what I am paid to do.


I know you never ventured far from heavy metal, but Rock is Dead.  Unless you are like many other who consider Rock to be Rap.



 When Make Tremonnti gets to where he can play what is posted below, then I might learn a lick or 2 of his.  Not this crap you are showing where he is just playing silly distorted trills.  You are way too old to be wearing teeney booper glasses.  I will spend my time with Gary Moore, you can keep yu crap.

[Ed_Chambley]

You should see that Gary was not only a great lead player, but a writer, vocalist and a extremely good at inversions, something I think you would benefit from study.  But you will not do so because it is not stupid.  Have fun with this Jimbob.


This song will be around when everyone has long forgotten Mark and most do not even know who he is anyway.  If you poll 100 people, no one would care enough to respond about Tremonti's talent.

[Ed_Chambley]

Jimbob, Give this a try next time you "think" you can play.

[Ed_Chambley]

I spoke with Jojokeo's wife and she said there KT88 was fine, the problem is Jimbob doesn't know how to handle KT88's properly.  She said he think they go inside a pig.

[shooter]

what I am paid to do.

As I am the "audience", I pay cuz I like it!
You guys are killin me    Is it requisite for all musicians to always be fixin your junk on stage, then boasting later    If I knew all this went on behind the curtain, I woulda never ventured past talking heads on the AM 

[Ed_Chambley]

what I am paid to do.

As I am the "audience", I pay cuz I like it!
You guys are killin me    Is it requisite for all musicians to always be fixin your junk on stage, then boasting later    If I knew all this went on behind the curtain, I woulda never ventured past talking heads on the AM 

Just having fun Shooter.  Jimbob is impossible to make mad because he already is.  He is actually a good dude and funny as that white stuff on top of chicken dung.  You know what the white stuff on chicken dung is?




Well it is chicken dung. 


Know the difference between a my junk and a chicken leg?  No!


Wanna go on a picknic?

[shooter]

Wanna go on a picknic?

Not if your bring your banjo 

I get the jist, I've had a handful of ego's demoing my amps 
I just sit in the corner sniffin hot solder 

[SILVERGUN]

...  And Ed, watch and learn. 

Sounds like any Sunday afternoon in Guitar Center 

He is actually a good dude and funny as that white stuff on top of chicken dung 

Jimbo just got an old fashioned, down home, Peach State beatdown and now he's in his Safe Space where all good snowflakes belong.
Elvin Bad-Boy Bishop never heard uh no Safe Space, that's for sure.

Give him some time...he'll muster up the KT88s to come back out here and redirect his misdirected hostility.

[Ritchie200]

Ed, Ed, Ed...  I had to LOOK UP Thin Lizzy, because I forgot their name.  However, having said that, I am a BIG GM fan.  However, recycling old blues tunes does not make you some guitar god.  I think Robin Trower is head and tails over GM due to his song writing and over all ability.  Multi-dimentional as opposed to going down the same well trod road over and over and over.....  GM is like Malmsteen.  THe first song, I'm like WOW!  The second song, I'm like didn't he hold that same bend to feedback with his eyes squeezed shut on the first song?  And by the third song I am looking for the beer stand. With George Thoroughlyplayingthesamethingoverandovertodiferentlyrics, I am at the beer stand before the first song is over.

SG, the only peaches I'm seeing are Ed's since he appears to be involved in the worlds oldest profession....  And we wouldn't even know who the heck Elvin Bishop was if it wasn't for Micky Thomas' pipes.

SO, Ed, SG, and last but not least, Jojo....  When Clem Cadiddlehopper and his nose pickers can play like this, Or someone at Guitar Center can play like this (your band will hire them and fire you), and when you can write songs and lyrics and perform like this (I will be your agent).  Sit back, take notes, and try to keep up - HAHA!...yeah right.....

Jim

One of my favs...

[Willabe]

What I want to know is why is SG wearing a pilgrim hat in his avatar pic?     

[Willabe]

.....And we wouldn't even know who the heck Elvin Bishop was if it wasn't for Micky Thomas' pipes.

Not true, Paul Butterfield band.

I saw Elvin's band with Micky at the Aragon in the mid 70's.

I sat in with Elvin once at a blues bar. He gave everybody 1 time around, gave me 2. Of course I had 1 of the 1st reissue Les Paul flame top's at the time, which couldn't have hurt.   

[Willabe]

Who is Mark Tremonnti? I never heard of him.

I had to LOOK UP Thin Lizzy, because I forgot their name.

    I would have thought you liked Lizzy? Plenty of Marshall crunch with Les Paul's. One of my favorite rock bands, saw them at lest twice, yep, where else, at the Aragon Ballroom, Chicago, early 70's. Brian Robertson, who Moore replaced after he got fired for getting in a barroom brawl and cutting his hand, joined Lizzy at 18 for Lizzy's 2nd album. He was as good or better as any of the rockers at that time. Very melodic, great phrasing, great on a wahwah.  Whiskey ate him up. 
 

I think Robin Trower is head and tails over GM due to his song writing and over all ability.

Nah, apples to oranges.

And does anyone here really think Thorogood can play or sing????????  Pa-lease!   

[Willabe]

I get the jist, I've had a handful of ego's demoing my amps 
I just sit in the corner sniffin hot solder 

[Willabe]

This song will be around when everyone has long forgotten Mark and most do not even know who he is anyway.  If you poll 100 people, no one would care enough to respond about Tremonti's talent.

Yeah, that's what I said, never heard of him. (see above, reply #31^^^^^^) 

[Ritchie200]

I've been searching for when the Nose Pickers, Gary Moore, Thin Lizzy, George T, Paul Butterfield, or Elvin has EVER played sold out shows at Wembley, Royal Albert Hall, huge festivals, or even US arena shows.  So far I'm coming up blank??? 

However, I'm finding date after date, year after year, in those very venues of performances by Alter Bridge and the band Tremonti.  Mark was also named "Guitarist of the Year" for three consecutive years by Guitar World, and in 2011 he was listed in Total Guitar magazine as the fourth greatest heavy metal guitarist of all time.  In addition, and also in 2011, the guitar solo in the Alter Bridge song "Blackbird," which Tremonti performed, was named the greatest guitar solo of all time by Guitarist magazine.  Three Grammy nods, one win.  26 million + albums sold.  Apparently you guys need to venture out from whatever skirt you are hiding behind (shaking with fear), and get with the program!  It appears you are the only hippies living in caves, due to your embarrassing tele tone, who do not know who Mark Tremonti is.

Jim - I'm ALWAYS right.
Jim

[SILVERGUN]

What I want to know is why is SG wearing a pilgrim hat in his avatar pic? 

I dont know what you are talking about.
I wouldn't be caught dead wearing some dumb hat. Im a grown man for crabs sake.


I do, however, want some of whatever they are smokin over at Guitar World.

[Ed_Chambley]

There was Guitar and then guitar player magazine  then guitar Miss America and finally Ms Univers Guitar World. Saying Guitar World prefers player is like saying the people at Macworld prefer Mac Computers.


You desire to be right is causing you to mis several important concepts. You present concerts at Wimbly, but that show had a lot of other acts. If you go by audience draw,


If so, must look https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-grossing_concert_tours

[Ed_Chambley]

I can't drive to Amsterdam. I will agree with you the European audience do come out for Rock, but here you Rock to Beiber.


I hate it for you, I really do. I too have believed in Santa Clause, the Easter Bunny and even that Rock would Always be around, and will be as long as they  can wheel the old dudes to the shows.


Just like the made in Japan, the 3rd largest LIVE recording ever or Frampton Comes Alive. These are old recordings. In time they are now closer to Elvis than modern rockers touring Europe or sometimes Brazil. My point is I reside in Atlanta part time and you  will NOT find a rock show. Maybe Styx and speedwagon. 
Then there is Orlando where they wheel pat travers on stage and he says Boon Boom and everyone in the geriatric community with you in unison say out goes the lights.


When guy cannot sell as many tickets as the Eagles, much less comparing them to the number of ticket sales. Paul McCartney smokes their butts, and he 20th on the list.


Roger Waters did things his way and stayed successful, but even at his shows you did not see young people. Not like Alice in Chains or Pearl Jam. Your argument is valid  in Europe. Here, if you gave this music to someone in High School they would not understand why they are not at least Rap Singing.


So I should follow music that gets forgotten? Keep a firm hold on things the way they used to be and swear it still is the way I say even in the face of Taylor Swift, your argument sounds like the onset of dimensia. I cannot take off to concerts in Toranto either.


There are still huge rock shows in Munich, I think I take in a Show Friday. You know in your heart it is true, but your mental illness just cannot let go. Good God man Machine Head was mase in 72 and sow was Made in Japan, but released in 73 in the US. Nixon resigned and we have had a few since him, but I digress.
My point is I do not think you can be objective since you do not believe more people consider Taylor Swift a better musician than Mark. Even a better guitar player simply because the Only  people who know who he is are in the minority of demographically sectioned music who in the US generally steal download music, which are typically older like you and I. To us Napster broke a darrier. The younger generation uses Itunes and pays automatically with Dads card. Those on IOS I should say.

[shooter]

I do, however, want some of whatever they are smokin

I played my Creed collection last night, It sounded great, so I could probably help you out 
'sept you're always incognito 

[jojokeo]

SO, Ed, SG, and last but not least, Jojo....  When Clem Cadiddlehopper and his nose pickers can play like this, Or someone at Guitar Center can play like this (your band will hire them and fire you), and when you can write songs and lyrics and perform like this (I will be your agent).  Sit back, take notes, and try to keep up - HAHA!...yeah right.....

Jim

So when are you going to finish all your vacation BS and update me on all of my bookings? BTW, I can't continue to watch those vids...stopped midway through the first, about 15 seconds of the 2nd, and about 4 of the last...with two thoughts on my mind: where is the beer line and if I have to watch another second I'm going to puke! Only women and girlie men would want to watch guys constantly fiddle their guitars right in front of their junk all night? Could they wear them any more perfectly for that? And with all that ample proof and recent examples this causes me to wonder about things I hadn't before? Jimbo + undying love of rainbows has a whole new meaning to me now. 

[jojokeo]

I spoke with Jojokeo's wife and she said there KT88 was fine, the problem is Jimbob doesn't know how to handle KT88's properly.  She said he think they go inside a pig.

Fired up the KT88 last night and performed flawlessly! Bias and power dissipation were spot on 

[Ritchie200]

Ed

Next time you try sneaking out, you need to tell someone!!!

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/08/07/elderly_men_escape_care_home_to_go_to_wacken_open_air/

Jim

[Ritchie200]

Ed,

Do you really think Georgia was EVER involved in any way with R&R? After the Black Crowes and REM (that's just embarrassing...), what do you have?  You guys like to claim Florida's Allman Bros and North Carolina's Marshall Tucker - sorry, no dice....  If I'm not mistaken, Black Sabbath was prevented from playing in Georgia in the 70's by you peach do gooders.  So to say you don't have rock in Georgia is like the apple store saying they have the best computers - duh....  Maybe it's the lack this important vitamin in your diet that is causing you to wander away from the nursing home....

SG, you were really cool for a couple of months!  And now a silly scooter helmet?  You think you look like the Stig now?

Jim

[Ed_Chambley]

Ed,

Do you really think Georgia was EVER involved in any way with R&R? After the Black Crowes and REM (that's just embarrassing...), what do you have?  You guys like to claim Florida's Allman Bros and North Carolina's Marshall Tucker - sorry, no dice....  If I'm not mistaken, Black Sabbath was prevented from playing in Georgia in the 70's by you peach do gooders.  So to say you don't have rock in Georgia is like the apple store saying they have the best computers - duh....  Maybe it's the lack this important vitamin in your diet that is causing you to wander away from the nursing home....

SG, you were really cool for a couple of months!  And now a silly scooter helmet?  You think you look like the Stig now?

Jim

Jim, it was Alabama, Montgomery in particular which caused Sabbath to Cancel the southeast.  Believe it or not, it was Charlie Daniels who was cancelled first.  The kids in Montgomery all left school at Capital Heights and tore the fence down in the new Mayors yard and began cutting doughnuts in his front yard using Heavy Chevys, there was a 71 Gold Chevelle I remember sort of well.  3 total concerts were cancelled and the it was thought this new ordinance may not be toog good.


What you do not know is the earliest Atlanta-based music maven, Bill Lowery, started the careers of Ray Stevens, Joe South, Jerry Reed, and countless others, and created the first Georgia-based springboard for such talent, National Recording Corporation, sporting not only a record label, but a recording studio and pressing plant. Lowery would later work with the likes of Billy Joe Royal, Mac Davis, Dennis Yost & The Classics IV, and The Atlanta Rhythm Section, giving Atlanta national relevance with his Lowery Music group of publishing companies, one of the world's biggest music publishers. Noted session and touring drummer, Michael Huey, started his career at Bill Lowery studios.
Tommy Roe, from Atlanta, had 2 #1 Hot 100 hits, including "Dizzy" in 1969.

[Ed_Chambley]

The Allman Brothers Band, founded in Jacksonville, Florida, moved to Macon at the urging of their manager, Phil Walden, who had previously managed Otis Redding. The Allman Brothers had a #2 hit on the Billboard Hot 100 with "Ramblin' Man" in 1973. Walden's Macon-based Capricorn Records, spearheaded the rise of Southern rock, and the success of the Allman Brothers paved the way for other Southern rock bands, including Atlanta Rhythm Section, South Carolina-based Marshall Tucker Band and Lynyrd Skynyrd, also founded in Jacksonville.
No one said the Allmans, Marshall Tucker were from Georgia.  What you do not get is without proper financing, doesn't matter where you are from.

[Ed_Chambley]

Georgia has also produced a number of Southern rock groups throughout the last three decades, including the Black CrowesThe Georgia SatellitesBlackberry SmokeConfederate Railroad,Drivin' 'N' Cryin'.The city of Athens, Georgia, home to the University of Georgia, has been a fertile field for alternative rock bands since the late 1970s. Notable bands from Athens include R.E.MThe B-52'sWidespread PanicDrive-By TruckersCartel, Of MontrealDead Confederate. Athens is also home to the Elephant 6 Recording Company, an indie collective whose members include The Apples in Stereo and Neutral Milk Hotel. R.E.M. had 2 #1 albums on the Billboard 200, including Out of Time in 1991.

[Ed_Chambley]

And finally, Acoustic rock/folk duo the Indigo Girls got their start in Decatur, and alternative rock bands Collective Soul and September Hase began in Stockbridge and Tifton, respectively. Rock pianist Elton John spends some time living in Atlanta, and singer-songwriter John Mayer ("Why Georgia") lived in Atlanta after dropping out of the Berklee School of Music in 1998. Indie rock and hard rock band Manchester Orchestra had a #13 album on the Billboard 200 in 2014 with Cope.Georgia has contributed to the ska scene with the bands Treephort, 50:50 Shot, and The Taj Motel Trio. Ska punk has seen a recent revival in Georgia with the regional ska festival, the Mass Ska Raid, taking place for the first time in 2008.Heavy metal music scene in Georgia, with bands such as Mastodon (had a #6 album on the Billboard 200 in 2014), Baroness, Collective Soul, Royal Thunder, Black Tusk, Kylesa, Withered, Sevendust, and Attila. Thrash metal band Tetrarchare from Atlanta.Neon Christ are a notable band from the Atlanta Hardcore scene.Several Christian rock musicians have come out of Georgia, including Amy Grant, who was born in Augusta, Third Day (Had a #6 album on the Billboard 200 in 2008), Casting Crowns (Had 2 #2 albums on the Billboard 200, like in 2007), Bebo Norman, and Family Force 5.Cat Power (Chan Marshall) was born in Atlanta and got her start there.The 2000s saw the rise of Atlanta indie rock bands The Black Lips, Deerhunter, and The Coathangers.

[Ed_Chambley]

I am sorry you have to feel this way, but the truth is the Indigo Girls, 2 gay women had a bigger hit with a Dylan written Hendrix cover than you junk swinging Mark has ever made.  They may be from Georgia.  Actually, the are from Decatur and use to live together near Ag Scott College.


I should remind you Georgia is not like land locked with a muddy river flowing through it and some halfassed McDonalds golden arch, where the only influence from the origins of music came from River Boat Banjo.  I guess that is why you prefer old strings, they make the pig squeel like a Banjo.


BTW, I am East Bound and Down.  Not Georgia again?

[shooter]

NiCe skool'in!
I have most everyone you listed, like them all, but I'm the 'ol guy out, I didn't quit listening and expanding my musical interests in 1978 like all the other 'ol ppl I know, I made it to 2010, after that.......

[Ed_Chambley]

NiCe skool'in!
I have most everyone you listed, like them all, but I'm the 'ol guy out, I didn't quit listening and expanding my musical interests in 1978 like all the other 'ol ppl I know, I made it to 2010, after that.......

I did not mention The Godfather of Soul simply because Jimbob said R&R, which really he does not like or understand.  Rock music and Rock and Roll are different.  See, most people know there is a difference between how Hank Williams (I know you are questioning rock and roll right now) started rock and roll, but Bill haley got the credit and Rock such as Zepplin.


Here is Rock and Roll.

And here is what was coined as Rock and Roll.