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Hoffman Amps Forum image Author Topic: Standby Grounding Issue  (Read 3685 times)

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Offline ululufut

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Standby Grounding Issue
« on: August 28, 2019, 04:38:40 pm »
I have a vexing issue made more so by that I solved the same issue earlier and now it's back, this time without a findable solution as of this time.

A 5E3-type circuit I'm working on is producing a low level 60 cycle hum on standby. Live the hum is louder, although in each instance it is not obtrusive. I would say that, on standby, the hum is what I would expect from the circuit when live, and the live hum is a little more than that.

I have checked the voltages on the V1-V2-V3-V4 plates on standby and they all seem normal - a trivial number of millivolts. Live, the values are all pretty high - I have bigger transformers in there. But they seem reasonable - in the low 200's on the preamp tubes and low 400's on the EL34's.

For the filter caps - on standby they're all running about 445mV. Is this normal?

The transformer/rectifier connections all seem legit - moreover the amp was quiet on standby earlier so this seems like an unlikely source.

One thing I'm unsure of, however, is that the rectifier (I'm using a plugin diode) pins 2 and 8 are at 327V on standby, and 423 when powered up. I frankly don't know what the values should be here.

Other ground connections:

Cathode bias 250Ω resistor - grounded

Input jacks -> potentiometers - grounded

PT high voltage center tap - grounded

PT shield wire (Allen TP40D) - grounded

PT 50V bias tap - grounded (should this be grounded or heat shrinked? It didn't cause an issue earlier)


Here's my standby switch wiring:

1. Rectifier pin 8 to Standby

2. Standby to positive end of first filter cap.

3. OT center tap to positive end of first filter cap.


One thing I just noticed is that the turret lug at the base of the + end of the first filter cap is a little loose in its footing. I don't imagine that makes a difference but I don't know exactly.

I seem to be running dry on solutions. What else can I check?

Offline shooter

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Re: Standby Grounding Issue
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2019, 06:14:17 pm »
Quote
low level 60 cycle hum
that indicates filaments, possibly jostled wires picking up hum, ground connections loose
did you roll in different tubes for testing?
Went Class C for efficiency

Offline ululufut

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Re: Standby Grounding Issue
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2019, 06:21:59 pm »
that indicates filaments, possibly jostled wires picking up hum, ground connections loose
did you roll in different tubes for testing?

Yep - swapped preamp tubes as well as a pair of output tubes.

Offline sluckey

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Re: Standby Grounding Issue
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2019, 07:15:36 pm »
Quote
PT 50V bias tap - grounded (should this be grounded or heat shrinked? It didn't cause an issue earlier)
BINGO! PT is probably damaged at this point.
A schematic, layout, and hi-rez pics are very useful for troubleshooting your amp. Don't wait to be asked. JUST DO IT!

Offline pdf64

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Re: Standby Grounding Issue
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2019, 07:28:59 pm »
It’s a bad idea to connect a 50V power source to 0V.
Try disconnecting it and you may be lucky.
What value mains fuse has the amp been fitted with?
https://www.justgiving.com/page/5-in-5-for-charlie This is my step son and his family. He is running 5 marathons in 5 days to support the research into STXBP1, the genetic condition my grandson Charlie has. Please consider supporting him! BBC News feature  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm26llp

Offline ululufut

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Re: Standby Grounding Issue
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2019, 07:48:16 pm »
Sluckey & pdf - I was just thinking "how could I have been such an idiot?", but it turns out I didn't have the 50V tap grounded after all. "So I have that going for me... which is nice". On the flip side, I still have a humming amp.

It was after multiple hours - unveiling several weak spots, nonetheless - that I came up with the 50V tap theory. I was just tired. Anyway, looking for the source of the whiff helped me clean up the wiring - still have a few days until I have to take it on vacation with me.

Offline silverfox

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Re: Standby Grounding Issue
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2019, 07:57:18 pm »
What grounding scheme did you use? Star; Buss?


silverfox.

Offline sluckey

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Re: Standby Grounding Issue
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2019, 07:59:59 pm »
Quote
On the flip side, I still have a humming amp.
Teach it some words. Start with something simple and repetitive...

Baby shark, doo doo doo doo doo doo
Baby shark, doo doo doo doo doo doo
Baby shark, doo doo doo doo doo doo
Baby shark!
A schematic, layout, and hi-rez pics are very useful for troubleshooting your amp. Don't wait to be asked. JUST DO IT!

Offline dude

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Re: Standby Grounding Issue
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2019, 08:17:54 pm »
No, no not baby sharks, my grandson wants baby sharks every time he visits. I can’t handle any more “Baby Sharks” can’t stop humming that tune, going crazy. I might have to learn that riff, what key is it in...?
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Offline sluckey

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Re: Standby Grounding Issue
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2019, 10:12:09 pm »
Try the key of A shark...

             A#
Grandpa shark, doo doo doo doo doo doo
             D#
Grandpa shark, doo doo doo doo doo doo
             A#
Grandpa shark, doo doo doo doo doo doo
             F
Grandpa shark!    :icon_biggrin:
A schematic, layout, and hi-rez pics are very useful for troubleshooting your amp. Don't wait to be asked. JUST DO IT!

Offline ululufut

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Re: Standby Grounding Issue
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2019, 08:15:56 am »
I'm going with "Baby Snakes"


Offline ululufut

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Re: Standby Grounding Issue
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2019, 08:18:24 am »
What grounding scheme did you use? Star; Buss?

Buss.

Offline sluckey

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Re: Standby Grounding Issue
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2019, 08:26:04 am »
I'm going with "Baby Snakes"
Might be too ambitious for a 5E3.   :wink:
A schematic, layout, and hi-rez pics are very useful for troubleshooting your amp. Don't wait to be asked. JUST DO IT!

Offline Ed_Chambley

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Re: Standby Grounding Issue
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2019, 12:12:54 pm »
Just turned noon, into the Icehouse already?

Offline shooter

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Re: Standby Grounding Issue
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2019, 01:19:38 pm »
 :laugh:
it's sunny n 75 here.........
retirement you only have 2 times sleep n whatever the hell else you want  :icon_biggrin:
Went Class C for efficiency

Offline Tony Bones

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Re: Standby Grounding Issue
« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2019, 06:00:59 pm »
You need to allocate some of your time to planning ahead for the early bird special at the Cracker Barrel. Then there's doctors appointments....

Offline shooter

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Re: Standby Grounding Issue
« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2019, 06:28:51 pm »
Quote
Cracker Barrel.
:laugh:
I did that when I worked, stop #1
but now they're closed permanent Ecoli they can't kill  :icon_biggrin:
n I worked for Doc's for 33yrs, it's over-rated
Went Class C for efficiency

Offline sluckey

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Re: Standby Grounding Issue
« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2019, 08:09:57 pm »
You need to allocate some of your time to planning ahead for the early bird special at the Cracker Barrel. Then there's doctors appointments....
Hey! You been reading my calendar?    :l2:
A schematic, layout, and hi-rez pics are very useful for troubleshooting your amp. Don't wait to be asked. JUST DO IT!

 


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