Kagliostro / Franco and the actual situation here

[PRR]

> 3 people that healed and became negative, at a check they made themselves positive again

I do not like that. I think we do not know anything without a LOT more testing. However we can't test everybody. And now it looks like either the test is flawed, or the virus comes back (does not give immunity).

We have a phenomena here. "Old Folks Homes" usually manage illness inside the facility, not calling the hospital for every cough, not making a big deal when a resident dies (most are expected to die soon). But in the last week a couple nursing homes have "collapsed". When tested the majority of residents and staff are ill, some seriously, and the state case-counter had no clue. So a sudden one-day jump in cases.

It could be a 'false positive'. When I was young, tuberculosis was a concern. One of the old-time TB treatments has other effects and is used for several things, I am getting big doses. Apparently now if there is another TB scare I have to tell medics that I will test false-positive for TB. Of course there is Chicken Pox, lying dormant in the body for 40 years and then coming back as Shingles. (varicella, herpes zoster)

[shooter]

does not give immunity

I'm now on my 5th round of identical symptoms that began 12/8, last 10-12 days, good as new for 3 weeks, then....... round 5 is kickin my ass!  since there's no cure for the cold virus, guessing this one finds a home in 'that class'.  Our dictator deluxe banned "outside the box ideas",  get phone time on Monday with the Doc in a box, via flip-phone 

[kagliostro]

Thanks Jeff

Ciao PRR & Shooter

Really, at the moment, is very difficult to establish what happen

Was a false negative before ? Is a false positive now ? Is that is possible to be reinfected ?

don't know

However this days I was reading that there are for some time now there have been many variants of the virus, China has its own, Europe others and they should be also different in America

this thing of the variants (which are known to be a common thing for example in the flu) naturally makes it difficult to get a vaccine and / or immunity for having already contracted the disease and having previously overcome it ....

Franco

[shooter]

Yup, learned in some class long ago when you have no control, become like a sparrow 

[kagliostro]

... become like a sparrow ...

............... Jack ?



 

Franco

[PRR]

Five Hancock County coronavirus cases reported; emergency order extended into May
"There are many predictive models out there, some that actually say that the surge will hit us as early as next week and some that put it as far out as June and July," said Dr. James Jarvis.... "We tend to follow the one that the state is using and that would put us somewhere around the 14th to the 21st of April."
Shah said on Tuesday that the peak of cases is generally evident only "in retrospect."
Shah has repeatedly stressed that the number of confirmed cases is "only the tip of the iceberg," and that without large-scale testing, residents must assume the virus is everywhere.
"The numbers that Dr. Shah presents every day — when we say it’s new cases, it’s really new test results as opposed to new cases," she said later.

https://www.ellsworthamerican.com/maine-news/health-news/five-hancock-county-coronavirus-cases-reported-emergency-order-extended-into-may/

So..... we may peak in the next few days, and we may not be sure for a long time after. Also 90% of the folks in Maine live way down south of "here", are getting it from Boston and NYC(!), and it may take a while to seep this far up in the woods. Our hospitals are very busy but not yet in crisis (we have more than enough machines and almost enough workers and masks).

Still NO known cases in Piscataquis county.

In other news: "Maine's annual moose (shooting) permit lottery, which was to have been staged live in front of a large crowd in Jackman in June, has been switched to a 'virtual' format instead due to the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic."

AND- My uncle had some kind of crisis, took to hospital, tests tests tests, he gets bypass surgery Friday (a few hours from now), stays in hospital at least a week after. In best of times this is troubling; and this is not a good time to hang-out in the hospital for any reason.

[DummyLoad]

It could be a 'false positive'. When I was young, tuberculosis was a concern. One of the old-time TB treatments has other effects and is used for several things, I am getting big doses. Apparently now if there is another TB scare I have to tell medics that I will test false-positive for TB. Of course there is Chicken Pox, lying dormant in the body for 40 years and then coming back as Shingles. (varicella, herpes zoster)

Hoping you and yours are well Franco! 

i too test false-positive for TB - lived in africa when was young, although we were vaccinated, we were exposed. like you, i have to declare that. WHO issued a directive in 2011 to NOT rely solely on antibody/antigen blood test as validation for ACTIVE TB. article link below.

https://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2011/tb_20110720/en/

--pete

[shooter]

test false-positive

Mines malaria, the Navy still used live ones to "prevent" getting it, that was a 3 day delirium no drug I've ever sampled in my youth could touch 
Since then I was banned for life donating blood 

[PRR]

> reinfected ?   ...  variants of the virus

COVID-19 FAQs from Nextstrain

[tubenit]

Franco,

How are you and your family doing now?  Any updates on your situation and city?

Best regards, Jeff

[kagliostro]

Ciao Jeff

Un saluto a tutti gli amici

My family and I, fortunately, are still all in health

I hope for all you the same

This days I had a bit of ... scomfort because of the quarantine long periode, but I feel a bit better

I didn't posted updates this days because I'm waiting the decision of our govern

In this days they decide the regime we will have (which activities will be open, where we can go and with wich prescriptions)

Also there is an important thing to see, the decision about people over 60-65 years, the president Von der Leyen  (President of the European Commission) didn't want we go out of house before the end of the year, but may be (I hope) our government will apply different rules, I'll let you know the decision

Not that I want to go out without a mask and gloves and without applying caution, but I sincerely hope to be able to move at least a little

With a little advance with the date 4 may our governor gived the free way to some activities

--

In my region (Veneto) yesterday

Less hospitalized, 6,306 healed, 18 death (only one death in my Town)

In my Town, Treviso

of the previous positive 930 now negative, now 1,254 infected currently positive

Franco

[tubenit]

Franco,

THANKS for the update!  Stay safe and healthy, my friend! I'm rooting for you to get thru this and continue to enjoy the blessings of life.

So much is undefined here in the U.S. also regarding openings.

Best regards,  Jeff

[PRR]

> people over 60-65 years, the president ...didn't want we go out of house before the end of the year

In my state, nobody stops me from going out of the house. In fact we are encouraged to go shoot a turkey. The rules for tagging/reporting our kills are greatly relaxed. We can phone-in our count instead of having to go to a Game Station (the back door of the beer+bait shop) to show our birds. (Which is less data for the state to set bag-limits next year, but we have LOTs of turkeys this year and it isn't important.)

We "had" to mail a package (sold something online) so we just drove out to the post office. We were not required to mask-up but I put a scarf over nose/mouth. The first post office, and the beer/snacks shop next to it, were locked. We went into town, got in a PO, then ran into the small supermarket for snacks. Aisles are 1-way so shoppers are not head-on to each other. Got a big cheesecake. Touched a box of cookies, realized it was not the right flavor, but did not put it back, bought it anyway. There's marks at the checkout to keep us apart. There's a clear shield so I do not cough on the cashier. I pay by card, and do not even touch the keypad.

OH!! This week there was toilet paper on the shelf! I did not count how many or what the per-person limit is (we are OK for now).

Drive-through food places are doing their usual business. I think there are people who only eat take-out food. Many of the "decent" food places take phone orders and curb pick-up. Road traffic is maybe 1/3rd of usual for this time of year. Even less on my road. Most of the normal traffic on my road is really people going around traffic on the highway, but the highway is not crowded now.

I did not see any police while I was out. Normally I might or might not see a cop-car on that trip. Certainly nobody getting stopped and asked for a Reason.

(There is one guy in the state charged with unessential travel. He was starting a fight while violating parole with a gun and drugs, and they added Violating Quarantine to the charges. Funny thing is they will not want to send him back to prison, even for a day, because after old-folk homes the prisons are the best breeding-places for Corona. A lot of minor offenders are being sent home to get more space in the prison.)

I say I am living week to week. But nothing really changes in a week. The Diagnosed and Death counts for the state go up slowly. Testing is getting better. Hospital intensive-care units are actually emptier than usual because "elective" work has been cancelled. Including a procedure I need, not now, but this year? (We can't know the urgency until we look.)

> ... the end of the year

Past week-to-week, I think that is where we are headed. People in Georgia are going out for hair and nail trims and other "unessential" shopping, and I think next month a LOT of them will be sick, and a large number will be gasping for life in over-worked hospitals. If it is bad enough then a lot of areas will enact stricter stay-home lock-down and actually enforce it.  We *may* have 10% infected in the last month; at that rate it will take a year for the bug to run out of new hosts.

[shooter]

In my state

I finally got to buy a lawn mower!!!  be here Tuesday, AND my brother can use a motor on his boat, still can't go to your cottage (mines on wheels:) life's good 

prior to world 3, the daily passing in USA was ~ 8,000/day, looks like this will get a category and bring that average to ~8100 - 8200/day, least for 2020. 

[bmccowan]

Went for a motorcycle ride today. More bikes on the road than cars. A restaurant near us decided to become a curbside grocery store. Seems like a great way to go. Very little contact. Pay on line, pickup on the front porch. Limited selection, but good stuff. Beef pork lamb salmon haddock and good variety of veges - staying away from the supermarket.
Doing some maintenance on an old Valco National Sportsman I repaired years ago. Very cool amp - 6Sc7>6SL7>2x6V6.
Franco, PRR, Shooter, Tubenit, and others - be well, and don't drink the Lysol.

[tubenit]

Well, I'm doing my own work replacing windows on the house, refinishing furniture, fishing when weather allows, bike rides about 5x/wk, tons of yardwork including in the woods behind me, cleaning gutters, waxing the cars, repainting my boat and the outboard motor, tweaking two amps, recording mediocre jazz, practicing my pretend gourmet cooking, ………. and either this week or next week, I'll power wash my driveway again. 

         Life is good and I'm staying busy!  Still doing social distancing. 

Jeff

For those of you/us that like to cook ……………. check out the British Home Cooking Show.  It's a hoot and quite endearing!  Totally different then the full tilt brutal "Iron Chef" stuff you see. 

[bmccowan]

Lordy Tubenit! That's a whole bunch of progress. Some friends of mine love that British show - I need to check it out.
More cases and more deaths in elderly care facilities around here - so sad.

[DummyLoad]

Franco, you doing OK?


--Pete

[kagliostro]

Ciao Amici

We are still all well at home but in healt

I (and all us here) we were hoping that the claimed Phase 2 will give us a bit of more liberty

Unfortunately Phase 2 looks like a fake news, only some activities are re open and only small permissions to the movement of people

---

Numbers are slowly decreasing

--

My best wishes to all of you

Franco

[kagliostro]

Tomorrow we enter in Phase 2

We will see what will happen

Also Hospital will be open for planned exams and terapies (if they have a certain urgency), not only covid-19 patients

The number of infected in my province, at the moment, is around 1,000, death 7

Franco

[PRR]

Note that Maine is at least a month behind Italy. You were in crisis before we had our first case. We are up to 50+ total dead. A third of that in old-folk homes. Even if you lock the residents in their rooms, the staff and dishes carry germs around, and it turns out that many of the staff work multiple homes so pretty much ALL our old-folk homes got Corona the same week.

Maine may be leveling out. Can not be sure because there are not so many people in the state, so not many sick, so the data is small and erratic.

We now have hair-cuts, ONLY if everybody has mask and gown changed for every customer. Also dog-grooming but the groomer has a shop-leash so the owner-leash does not enter the shop. Remote billing/payment.

The tattoo shops are crying. For the last 10+ years they have been HIGHLY germ-control, because blood, because AIDS and other germs, and they say they also know respiratory germs. I can't see tattoos as "essential" but I agree they may as well do some work with precautions they already observe.

I now must wear a mask for food shop or at doctor. I will go tomorrow for a small pre-planned treatment. I go through an entry-check, they ask where I have been and check my temperature, and I get a hall-pass.

We in the US have not been seeing pictures from inside hospitals, or overwhelmed undertakers, because of privacy laws and general reluctance to publish sick people. A few shocking images have leaked. We also see images from other places, though it is not always clear the same things are happening here.

A lot of people here have "cabin fever". In Maine we don't go out much all winter. Which drags into April. And now we are supposed to stay home, and there's nowhere to go. And a lot of people are hurting for lack of income.

[kagliostro]

Ciao PRR

There was and there is a similar situation here

Lot of death in the retirement homes for the elderly, much more that one can belive

Hair Cuts are not yet allowed here, only dog grooming is permitted (till 17 may, then we will see)

In my region (Veneto) we can go out of house only with mask and gloves (or you must have with you disinfectant), now you can run (being apart from other people) without mask, but when you stop to run and you walk you must immediately put on

Unfortunately we have seen a lot of photo and small movies of the situation inside hospitals and intensive care units and also one with many black bags ...... These things are for people who are not clear what is going on and must see to believe and respect quarantine, not for you or me

... And a lot of people are hurting for lack of income.

I'm distressed for my son's job, because he got (with a mortgage to pay) a new house (he and his wife are living in a very small one at the moment) and his old car is definitively out of service, so he ordered a new one, all this happened just days before of this big problem with the virus
My son job was for years sound technician and he has been hired as coordinator of that business since a couple of years
The bad thing is that here all the spectacle activities are stopped and will still be so for many, many months, so no salary, to make matters worse is that his wife works in the same place

I wish you all to stay healthy and get to the end of this thing without problems

Franco

[PRR]

> you can run (being apart from other people) without mask, but when you stop to run and you walk you must immediately put on

Different places.

Here most of the Parks (mostly large wooded areas) are closed because everybody in a 1,000 square mile park is on a few 2 foot wide trails and breathing hard.

Aislinn, a reporter for the newspaper here goes on a hike EVERY week. (She writes it up and videotapes it on the newspaper blog and column.) This week her hike was "My Back Yard". (She does have a large back yard.)

Like Aislinn we have several acres, and a larger neighbor's land which is mostly empty. I don't run, but I could, and stop, and have nobody for a half-mile around.

Different problem: in this time of "stay in", we have a stay-in living under the house. We have seen a rabbit in the yard, but it smells like skunk. We hear it scratching. The big dog hears it through the floor. I hope it is not having kittens.

[PRR]

Yes, total collapse of 'live performances'. From bar bands to tax seminars, and the bars and conference rooms, and the light and sound persons. Weddings cancelled; and Maine Coast is a beautiful place for a wedding.

(But one couple got married in the bank drive-through. The bank official pronounced the wedding through the window and speaker. The family stood apart in the parking lot and cheered.)

My only minor advice: cancel the car. I *predict* a collapse of car prices. I bought a car in 8/2001. 2 weeks later was 9/11, airplanes into skyscrapers. I drove my new car to work where I could distantly see the WTC, and the smoke. Everybody stopped buying cars. 2 months later I could have got that car for 15% less. Although it is now legal to buy a car in Maine, I bet nobody is buying in this uncertainty.

[bmccowan]

Franco,
We are getting reports of mixed results from Italy's modest relaxing of regulations. Is it going OK from your perspective? - I hope so. We are beginning the same here in the US, with individual states making their decisions on timing and such. A lot hangs in the balance.
Friends of mine had a ZOOM wedding conducted from the front porch of a cottage in Boothbay Harbor Maine, complete with a dancing reception. They actually thought it a blast and avoided a lot of work!
Here's hoping all on this thread are doing well.

[kagliostro]

Hello friends

Here and in good health I am (thankfully)

Here new rules were diffused but ..... there is confusion because some are too restrictive and others impractical to be applied

The governors of the regions are trying to have permission to modify (according with situation and exsigency of every region) the rules

but all is now under discussion, so I can't say which will be the new applied rules, must wait a few (I hope only a few) other days

--

About marriage celebrations also here they are suspended, may be next week it will be possible to have some with some restrictions about numbers and distances

Of course marriages in great style I think will not be allowed, so no work for my son, he works for great events like large concerts, but also "big" mariages (like when he was as sound tecnichan at the George Clooney marriage in Venice)

For such things I think we have to wait way more time

At the moment the virus is in recession in our region (veneto 4.9 million of peoples) yesterday "only" 35 new infected and 11 death

Franco

[shooter]

so no work for my son

big problem here also
where I live it's become politics so most folk are just going about life like it was 2019 sideways 

an example;
our lumber store (Lowe's) is trying to help the people AND play by the "rules"
so, go in the fall left side, come out the far right side
I was there yesterday and 90% of the customers just said "thanks" as they went in whatever door worked best, myself included 

[kagliostro]

Today there was a lot of people around

many people respected rules and use the mask, some didn't (there are always and anywere stupids)

Finally I go out and had the possibility to do some thing that ware waiting to be done

--

Now the phase of recriminations has begun, people and entrepreneurs are on a war footing for the decisions taken by the government, some are against the reopening, others consider that the reopening is subject to too many restrictions

In the end a great confusion and I think it will be like this for a long time

Fortunately in my province only 5 new infected, 41 people are hospitalized and only 1 is in intensive care

The bad thing is that it has emerged (throughout the state) that many people who have all the symptoms, even serious, are negative for the coronavirus swab, but by carrying out a thorough examination of the fluid in the pulmonary interstices, the presence of the virus is revealed

Franco

[shooter]

about the same on this side the pond
Pam commented after buying groceries how much meat prices jumped
a lot of folk in my area don't have much faith in politics or those that get jobs in the field.  Most everyone I know gets out everyday, try's to live life instead of just existing.  Michigan has made Marijuana legal, it's been setting records for government taxes 

the mask thing is a quandary, we've had them since 1918, but just decided they were a must in 2020    Glad they help people with fear, I find fear to be worse for some than what initiated the fear in the first place.

[PRR]

> many people who have all the symptoms, even serious, are negative for the coronavirus swab, but by carrying out a thorough examination of the fluid in the pulmonary interstices, the presence of the virus is revealed

{sigh} I had not heard that, but I believe you are right.

> Michigan has made Marijuana legal, it's been setting records for government taxes

Hard liquor is "essential", even here in Maine which was a pioneer in the Prohibition movement a century ago. Yes, the state needs the taxes. Maine has been making pot less-illegal for 30 years. But "open sale" has been hung-up in the legislature since 2016, and it is not going to happen this year.

[bmccowan]

> many people who have all the symptoms, even serious, are negative for the coronavirus swab, but by carrying out a thorough examination of the fluid in the pulmonary interstices, the presence of the virus is revealed

Yikes - that is scary.
I just took a drive through rural New Hampshire. A popular ice cream stand was packed. People right on top of each other; no masks. I agree with people (me too) getting outside and not huddling in fear, but that seems like rolling the dice in a high stakes game.
Wishing good health for all.

[PRR]

the mask thing is a quandary, we've had them since 1918, but just decided they were a must in 2020   

In the US, wearing a mask is anti-social. Has even been illegal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-mask_law

In large parts of Asia, the last 20 years, a mask has been routine street-wear for many people in cold and hay-fever seasons, or for air pollution.

6 years ago: https://japantoday.com/category/features/lifestyle/why-do-japanese-people-wear-surgical-masks-its-not-always-for-health-reasons


Street scene with people wearing face masks on motorbikes and scooters to protect against air pollution on a busy urban road. Hanoi, Vietnam, Asia

[bmccowan]

Masks -

Glad they help people with fear.

I imagine that they do help some people calm their fears. But the fear they actually affect is the fear of spreading it to someone else. I am not a person who lives in fear. I'm well past 60, have been riding motorcycles since I was 14, ski raced for a decade, etc. But I can tell you that I am being damn careful. There is a difference. On my bike I watch all drivers closely to see if they are seeing me, or playing with their phone. I now shop delivery or curbside, because I'm being careful not because I'm afraid. This morning I read 3 articles claiming that this whole situation is not so bad, and we are letting it cripple us. But, I also read the obituary of a friend of my wife. Early 50s, no risk factors, got the virus was recovering when it came back and took her life. And I also got an email from my sister - a friend and co-worker of hers got the virus, turned septic, and in an attempt to save her life, both feet were amputated. So this situation is "so bad." Most of the things I hear it compared to, heart disease, cancer, vehicle accidents are not contagious. Nor do we have much of a role in controlling societal rates of those things. For Covid-19 we don't need to live in fear, but its our duty to be very careful, especially of others, and smart. It appears to me that there are a lot of people who are doing neither.

[shooter]

It appears to me that there are a lot of people who are doing neither.

Pam & I spent the day at the big lake, it was like 2019 
everyone was enjoying life, even some brave souls swimming in the 50degree water!
we did walk in it for a 1/2 mile before deciding it's cold!
The only masked folk were law enforcement and govmnt workers, everyone else was in summer attire 

You can go septic from most any wound that gets infected, not just the wuFlu, and hospitals have been the #1 place for at least the 30yrs I was working in 'em

[bmccowan]

You can go septic from most any wound that gets infected, and hospitals have been the #1 place for at least the 30yrs I was working in 'em

all true, and I have other friends with missing limbs to prove it. But she lost her feet due to this virus, and my wife's friend lost her life due to this virus. If you die from a motorcycle accident (like I could) the fact that you could also die from heart failure does not change the cause of death. People should enjoy life, including during this situation. Today I went for a long bicycle ride, put that bike away and hopped on the Moto Guzzi for a longer ride. Since the mask and social distancing are there to protect others, not yourself, I find the disregard for others safety to be alarming. I don't agree with lock-downs but I do agree with being respectful and responsible - its the way I was raised.

[bmccowan]

I just saw this quote on the Adafruit Industries site:
“ Nothing in life is to be feared, it is only to be understood. Now is the time to understand more, so that we may fear less.”
Marie Curie
Perfect!

[shooter]

protect others, not yourself,

I find this part the hardest, as humans protect yourself from danger,  don't force others to protect you.  If you have adequate protection, then "I" cannot harm you.

It's been that way since, well, caveman?

[sluckey]

If you live with someone that has COPD it's very easy to protect others.

[bmccowan]

Well stated Sluckey. And that's about respect and responsibility, not force.
Shooter I understand and agree with the objection to "force." But when out on a motorcycle or bicycle, or just walking on the side of the road, one cannot protect oneself against the texting or drunk driver. And we cannot rely much on the force of law in those circumstance. One must hope for and even ask for responsible actions by others. I already feel like too much a hermit right now without having to constantly protect myself from others' thoughtless actions. It's been that way since we left the caves.

[shooter]

it's really a circular argument.
I have stage 3 COPD, I do NOT feel it's anyone's responsibility to "protect me".
My Dad passed about a month ago, had 3 cancers he chose to ignore for 15 years and did quite well,  Hospice Doc agreed he probably had a viral infection that sped up his end, most of us that helped him counted it a Blessing that he suffered less.
 
I don't wear a mask because my O2 drops by 4 #'s and I like those 4 #'s 
and how is it that my Son, pre, was working, paying his way, now he is a "ward of the state" since he's not essential.  He's no longer able to take care of himself, so he's no longer able to help others, kinda bassakward in my world.

last year when 30k folk died from viral complications, why didn't we care, I keep looping on that.
You do what you can, when you can, but we cannot be held liable for "act's of God"

[bmccowan]

Franco - in the news today it seems that progress continues to be made in Italy. Although the North still struggles more than other regions it seems. I see blood testing for anti-bodies is beginning there - hoping for the best possible outcome on that.

[kagliostro]

Dear Friends

I'm sad reading what happened and is happening in your country

Here seems that the virus is going down, but less on north Italy than in south Italy, someone is thinking to a sort of genetic difference between people that lives on nort and south

Next mounth we will be permitted to go on street witout mask if there are few people, we must go on with it if there are assembraments and at the shop and markets

Here young people seems to be too laid-back, they say the virus is not so dangerous for them, but here we are expecting in two or tree weeks a new peak between their parents (that aren't so young and will be infected from sons and daughters)

Our governor planned a plasma bank collected from healed people to be used on october when, near for surely, the infection will rise

What to say, stay well my friends, stay in healt, try to do what you can as to avoid contamination and to contamine others, life isn' a so bad thing

Franco

[bmccowan]

Franco,
Thanks for your thoughts. I and others appreciate hearing from you on the virus. For me partly because I love your country and partly because since Italy peaked before the U.S. there are lessons to be learned. I hope good progress is made in both countries. Here there is also a division, or maybe several, as to the seriousness of the situation and best courses of action. I will not go into the politics of that as it tends to stir up controversy beyond the intentions of this forum. Tensions are now very high in this country as you are likely seeing in the news. The virus and racial tensions at the same time is a tragic mix.
Plasma bank seems promising as a helpful step prior to a vaccine being developed.
I join you in wishing health for all and hope all are able to contribute to not further spreading the virus.

[DummyLoad]

franco, how are you doing? hope all is well. texas is opening back up slowly. a mistake IMO, but folks do need to earn a living.

--pete

[kagliostro]

Ciao Pete

Sorry I replied only now

My son and his wife got an old house with a 40m² sheet metal warehouse and I'm helping him to renovate it and to make it usable for working on it even in winter

So I'm lost on that activity

About the infection, at the moment, here (in Veneto, my region) apparently things are going better and people goes around, many activities are open and you can go there with mask and gloves disinfecting gloves at the entrance (in other places you have to disinfect your hands to enter and no gloves is required)

They say that there are currently less than 20,000 infected people throughout Italy

But some experts say to be on guard and expect a recurrence of the infection, some say that an additional quarantine period of at least 60 days should be done and be done soon if you want to avoid large numbers of infected in October - November

So it is difficult to understand what the real and actual situation is

Stay well my friend / my friends

Franco

[bmccowan]

Franco,
Good to hear from you man. Recent and current experience here is showing that if you open up carefully, it can work. But if it's "Yahoo! lets party" there is trouble to be had. People are confused as to what to do, and some of the consequences are tragically sad. If ever the phrase, "lets get our act together" fit; it is now. So lets all get our acts together.
Stay safe and happy all.

[kagliostro]

No good news

Monday our Governor (region Veneto) will give us new comportment indications

The infection level changed from 0,43 to 1,63

and that isn't a good thing

Franco

[PRR]

"The governor of the Veneto region, Luca Zaia, who had ceased the daily covid-19 press conferences on 30 June after 130 days, once again summoned journalists on 3 July and was furious.
""We have gone from low risk to high risk. We have a RT of 1.63%. I don't know whom to congratulate. If we keep going around without using masks, and we keep thinking that the conspiracies are right and the virus is an invention, it is inevitable".
"The contagion figures, based on the famous "R with t", went from 0.43 to 1.63.
"“I tell you I saw a young man with two lungs transplanted because Covid destroyed them. We have encephalitis, heart problems, kidney problems, people who have lost mobility. This is a virus that hurts. Don't ask yourselves whether the virus will be back or not, because we already have it here,” continued the governor.
"Zaia is enraged. He stated, "Thanks to someone's irresponsible behaviour we have new cases. We have 5 positive cases ... that have determined isolation for almost 80 people. A gentleman returned on June 25th from a business trip to Serbia, and symptoms appeared immediately. The next day he was in contact with many people, including at a private party, business meetings and a funeral. Just three days later, on the 28th, he went to the hospital and was offered hospitalization. This gentleman refused. He refused? The hospitalization must be forced. He is now in intensive care. He gave us a list of contacts from the 23rd to the 30th of June, which means that even with the positive swab he was in close contact with others".
"A new, more strict ordinance for the Veneto Region is expected to be enforced on Monday."
https://www.wantedinrome.com/news/coronavirus-in-italy-fears-return-to-the-veneto-zaia-now-we-are-at-high-risk.html

[PRR]

I fear this is how it is going to be. Every time we let the kids out of the cellar to go to the bar and neck, one mildly ill kid's covid will spread to everybody's elders.

Lockdown ordered for 200,000 in northeastern Spain due to Covid-19 outbreaks
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/04/europe/lockdown-lleida-province-spain-coronavirus-outbreaks-intl/index.html

Florida ...Miami-Dade and Broward County reach record high level of cases
...residents are "not listening" as numbers soared to 2,418 new cases in his city.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/florida-14-percent-coronavirus-positivity-rate

Miami-Dade County ...halted the reopenings of ...casinos and strip clubs.
https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/seven-us-states-post-record-covid-19-cases-curfew-ordered-in-miami-2256886

[sluckey]

Shit! University of Alabama students are having covid parties. A person that has tested positive attends the parties. All party goers put some money in a pot. The first one to get covid wins the pot! How brazenly stupid is that? These are the people that will be running this country if anything survives. I hope they all win!