Mod Electrolytic capacitors (MII)

[mresistor]

Anyone going to try the new Mod electrolytic capacitors..   AES  has them .. https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/capacitors

[brewdude]

I would like to know more about both the electrolytic and oil filled caps...


The don’t look “stupidly“ expensive...


I will consider them on my next build (whenever that may be?).

[bmccowan]

I'll probably try them both - but I've been very happy with F&T lytics for filter caps and Nichicons for bypass. The MOD lytics are cheap. The oil caps look interesting but I'm more interested in trying them in a HiFi amp than in a guitar amp. I've always been confused about what/who MOD is? Anybody know the scoop on this company. Did they start as a pedal kit company?

[PRR]

> what/who MOD is?

I've mostly seen their stuff from the AES/AmplifiedParts operation in Arizona? (Also on Amazon but supplied by the same outfit.)
https://www.modelectronics.com/
At bottom: "Copyright ® 2020 MOD Electronics. All products sold by Amplified Parts."

IIRC, they started with reverb tanks, speakers quickly followed: these are things a BIG distributor can get private-label subcontracted.

[Latole]

Regular Mod; 25 mfd 25 volts ; $0.39
Sprague : $2.95.

Quality have a price, I wouln't put these Mod caps in a quality amp.

[1blueheron]

Regular Mod; 25 mfd 25 volts ; $0.39
Sprague : $2.95.

Quality have a price, I wouln't put these Mod caps in a quality amp.

I have some really nice Nichicon's I will sell you for 200% more than I paid for them.  I guarantee the quality and they will sound 200% better for you since you paid more.

Seriously, my guess is that they have custom branded some MIEC caps.  I actually inquired about this about a year ago but the volume needed was a bit more than I wanted to jump into.  Sprague has gotten a bit greedy these days.

Ask yourself, what would Leo do?

[vampwizzard]

Ask yourself, what would Leo do?

The early prototypes double as toaster ovens and space heaters. What could go wrong? 

[Latole]

Ask yourself, what would Leo do?

Leo use only high quality parts.
Ok he may have no choice, in '50 /'60 there not too many cheap parts.

[mresistor]

These could very well be MIEC and imo they are good caps.  Sprauges are made in Virginia? and it possible they are paying Americans a living wage which is reflected in the pricing.

[bmccowan]

Ok he may have no choice, in '50 /'60 there not too many cheap parts.

Hmm - then what was with all those caps I've tossed from old Gibson amps?
Check out BMI Barker - I think they are the current producer of Atoms. The original Sprague company which produced products in Maine and Massachusetts is long gone.

[jammied]

Didn't the yellow astrons in the tweeds have problems with being leaky?


But even so sprague and numerous other us companies were making capacitors of varying price and quality.


I'm pretty sure Fender, Marshall and all the companies went to what ever brand could supply at the lowest cost/availability. My thought are that's the number 1 reason british and us amps used different components.


In the modern amps pretty much every manufacturer uses the same components from what I have seen.

[Ed_Chambley]

I have no idea if parts were better.  Seems as if most guitar players prefer old technology and lo-fi sound in amps and effects.  I am sure all the parts used by Leo were certainly adequate for their day.


Same guitarist that wants his Caps specially rolled on the thighs Polynesian ladies wants a cell phone the size of a watch.  If a tube amp component lasts 10 years, we expect it.


If your larger and cheaper TV takes a dump before 10 years, we get a lighter and bigger one.  Check the voltages in your TV and see if your caps have 50v where 3v would do. 


Amps are relatively simple and generally have a smaller parts count.  Not saying it is easy, just stating I have some old Fender amps that work well. 


I bought an Alamo Embassy for $10.  SS preamp with tremolo doesn't work.  Amp works fine, preamp needed and I may have to use a zener style tremolo, for the more tremolo.


OTOH, I have a 64 Super Reverb.  Chassis never been out.  Go figure, with Leo building amps with crappy parts.

[HotBluePlates]

Regular Mod; 25 mfd 25 volts ; $0.39
Sprague : $2.95.

Quality have a price ...

Perception has a price, too. 

[jammied]

I never said crappy parts. I did say cheap. And there is a difference.  Although by many the yellow astrons can be considered crappy, leak prone things. Along with numerous others.


Cheap doesn't always correspond to crappy. Maybe Leo did use crappy parts. Certainly were higher priced components available at the time


I seen many cap cans in champs explode. Mallory or sprague? Dont remember. But my Danelectro kadet 123 is still going and cheaply made

[1blueheron]

Ok he may have no choice, in '50 /'60 there not too many cheap parts.

Hmm - then what was with all those caps I've tossed from old Gibson amps?
Check out BMI Barker - I think they are the current producer of Atoms. The original Sprague company which produced products in Maine and Massachusetts is long gone.

Correct, BMI Barker in Hillsville, VA.  It was formed by some former Sprague employees who bought out the small aluminum electrolytic manufacturing plant previously owned by Sprague when it was split up in 1990.  The bulk of their sales is primarily motor start capacitors though they do produce lines of small axial and radial electrolytics particularly for the mil spec. sector.

The non-electrolytic and tantalum cap production was bought by Vishay and SBE got the "Orange Drops" and then it got sold to bought by Cornell Dublier which I believe is now part of Illinois Capacitor.

[1blueheron]

I never said crappy parts. I did say cheap. And there is a difference.  Although by many the yellow astrons can be considered crappy, leak prone things. Along with numerous others.


Cheap doesn't always correspond to crappy. Maybe Leo did use crappy parts. Certainly were higher priced components available at the time


I seen many cap cans in champs explode. Mallory or sprague? Dont remember. But my Danelectro kadet 123 is still going and cheaply made

There is a lot of mystique surrounding these old brands.  How much today's "Atom" caps are like the original ones used in Fender amps if you dissected them is probably like buying today's McDonald's French Fries vs. those of 1970.   I doubt with today's environmental regulations they can use the same materials and processes that they did in 1950 even if they use the same tooling and machines and they come out the original doors.  Times change. 

I agree that cheap doesn't mean crappy.  Likewise expensive doesn't guarantee good either.  I am a value oriented person.  If I can buy something that will work better, last longer, and cost less then I would be foolish to spend more and get less.

Let's be honest.  Leo Fender was an accountant before he was an electronics genius.  He knew how to save a dime, how to cut parts count to a minimum and where a quality part mattered and where it didn't matter.

I've seen some pretty crazy prices paid for capacitors that had a perceived value much in excess of the actual value.   I've seen knock-off Gibson's that cost 1/10th of the price of a real Gibson with better tone and quality.  MIM Fenders that play better than the US custom shop.  There's more to quality than just spending top dollar for a name brand.  Particularly when dealing with the names Fender and Gibson be it amps or guitars.

[bmccowan]

There's nothing like a good capacitor thread, eh?

[sluckey]

Here's a modern Sprague Atom...   

[1blueheron]

Here's a modern Sprague Atom...   

They should have a disclaimer on them like a box of cereal.  "This package is sold by the weight not volume. Some settling of the contents may have occurred during transport."

[shooter]

the disclaimer won't work, you wire it backwards and it expands many time's it's volume 

[mresistor]

Here's a modern Sprague Atom...   

They should have a disclaimer on them like a box of cereal.  "This package is sold by the weight not volume. Some settling of the contents may have occurred during transport."

Oh my God Latole is going to have a cow ....

[acheld]

No, just no, Mod caps for me.

Forever Astron!

Seriously, no.

[HotBluePlates]

... Forever Astron! ...

On another forum, the guy who owns & builds Komet amps posted a warning about Yellow Astron caps (he's a serious vintage-fan, and had a very large number for tweed restorations).

He'd tested ~100 of them, and all leaked d.c. volts.  Seems the paper insulation breaks down over time (look up acid-free paper for framing/conservation), leading to the leakage after a few decades.

It's an unfortunate reality.  I assume (but don't know) that Red Astrons suffer a similar fate.

[jammied]

Awwwwww ewwww the majestic.... angelic sound of a capacitor on the edge!!!

[vampwizzard]

Ok he may have no choice, in '50 /'60 there not too many cheap parts.

Hmm - then what was with all those caps I've tossed from old Gibson amps?
Check out BMI Barker - I think they are the current producer of Atoms. The original Sprague company which produced products in Maine and Massachusetts is long gone.

Correct, BMI Barker in Hillsville, VA.

Anytime someone mentions Hillsville, VA in real life or online Im compelled to tell peopleto NOT TRAVEL THROUGH THERE ON LABOR DAY WEEKEND. Holy hell man. The entire town is traffic.. the entire main road is turned into a flea market. Trust the map app of your choice and take a bypass!

[acheld]

... Forever Astron! ...

He'd tested ~100 of the, and all leaked d.c. volts.  Seems the paper insulation breaks down over time (look up acid-free paper for framing/conservation), leading to the leakage after a few decades.

It's an unfortunate reality.  I assume (but don't know) that Red Astrons suffer a similar fate.

You are correct.  I rip them out whenever I see them.  I was being ironic (never a good idea online).   And yes, they leak DC like there is no tomorrow in the few that I have tested personally.

But, why would anyone go with Mod at this point when there are really good companies making great caps at good prices, with a track record? 

[bmccowan]

A flea market?! The perfect place to get a deal on leaky old Astrons. Or who knows what else. A drummer I used to play with bought a nice tweed Champ at the famous Brimfield MA flea market for $25.00! And I bought a Slingerland Radio King drum for him that was signed by Buddy Rich at another MA flea market.
With Covid, besides visiting family and music shows, what I miss most are flea markets and yard sales.
And - the original question was would anyone try those caps. Not would they just switch to using them. Trying things is how we learn. Well, at least it's how I learn.

[shooter]

With Covid, besides visiting family and music shows, what I miss most are flea markets and yard sales.

music shows aside;
this "area" just went about life (Ignored:), made it to many yard sales, involved with 2.  Flea markets had costume requirements but all are open, I just drove Ms daisy, hung outside with the 10% that didn't want to get all dressed up, reminded me of my HS days hanging out in the tree-line     

[reidgw]

I considered starting a new topic on this but since this thread already existed, I figured I'd stir the pot 

I was wondering if anyone has actually tried Mod capacitors yet.

A friend asked me to look at a beat-half-to-death Silvertone amp he was given. Starts up fine and after about a minute, the volume drops steadily and it gets distorted. I 99.9% suspect a failing resistor, but I haven't tested anything yet.

What I did notice is that someone changed the filter caps with shiny 500v MOD brand and the adjoining resistors with 1 watt metal film. They did a nice, neat job, but a search for these suckers produced few results. Trying to determine if I should replace them.

[66Strat]

Here's a modern Sprague Atom...   

Here's a modern Sprague Atom...   

They should have a disclaimer on them like a box of cereal.  "This package is sold by the weight not volume. Some settling of the contents may have occurred during transport."

About 15 or so years ago, I emailed Sprague and asked about the excess cap can volume. Their response was that the space was to allow for gas expansion.

As to the cost, it's easy to build cheap, if one is not required to adhere to any environmental regulations or pay a living wage.

[mresistor]

I considered starting a new topic on this but since this thread already existed, I figured I'd stir the pot 

I was wondering if anyone has actually tried Mod capacitors yet.

A friend asked me to look at a beat-half-to-death Silvertone amp he was given. Starts up fine and after about a minute, the volume drops steadily and it gets distorted. I 99.9% suspect a failing resistor, but I haven't tested anything yet.

What I did notice is that someone changed the filter caps with shiny 500v MOD brand and the adjoining resistors with 1 watt metal film. They did a nice, neat job, but a search for these suckers produced few results. Trying to determine if I should replace them.

probably should find the problem before replcacing parts out of hand  - I and several others have used mod caps and they seem ok ..   

[reidgw]

probably should find the problem before replcacing parts out of hand  - I and several others have used mod caps and they seem ok ..

Of course. I have every intention of flushing out the initial problem first but as I will likely have to order the part or parts, I wanted to get an opinion on those caps. Don't want to spent an extra $6-7 on shipping them separately, ya know?

Thanks for the input on them. Greatly appreciated!

[dude]

I’ve never used expensive e- caps, usually mid priced or cheap. Only once did a cheap Ruby can fail. Maybe l’m missing something but my wallet isn’t…!
Although, l used all Spragues in an Allen old flame, his copy of a BF SR. I have two, Old Flames, the one with the Spragues is a little tighter, the caps? Who knows. But at least l know l have room for expansion. 

[mresistor]

probably should find the problem before replcacing parts out of hand  - I and several others have used mod caps and they seem ok ..

Of course. I have every intention of flushing out the initial problem first but as I will likely have to order the part or parts, I wanted to get an opinion on those caps. Don't want to spent an extra $6-7 on shipping them separately, ya know?

Thanks for the input on them. Greatly appreciated!

I and others have used the small cathode bypass mod caps..   as for the larger ps filter caps.  who knows who is manufacturing them. It could be MIEC or Illinois or some other company.  I would guess they aqre made in Asia.  If you are concerned then it might be a good idea to change them out with F&T capacitors.   But even Illinois caps last for a good long time.   I wouldn't automatically suspect a filter cap just on looks alone or reputation. 

[thetragichero]

i've switched to these for my own builds. mainly they look cool and are affordable. i'd mainly been using the no-name axial electro caps from antique electronic supply/ce dist without too much issue (besides the 16uf 475v that have given me nothing but trouble)

[reidgw]

Thanks, fellas. I guess I'll leave them in there. I asked because of the limited end-user info I could find on them. I'm not one that believes expensive is better. I lost that mindset years ago. Even got rid of my last Harley and went to Honda (assembled in Marysville, Ohio for 1/3 the cost of an equivalent HD (which is 80% imported parts too!!! but that's a gripe for another thread lol!))

But I have been burned trying to save a buck. Bought a pack of 78L05 voltage regulators once that were half the cost of my usual supplier and the output was all over the place - from 3v to 8v. No money saved there!