Butchered Super Reverb...Estimates?

[JustMike]

 A friend of mine owns a small music store and he has some old amps lying around. He doesn't know if they work and asked me to look at them. One is a 1975(ish) Silverface Super Reverb, One is a reissue BF "Super", and the other is a Music Man 112RD. They were all used as the house amps at a bar on the beach and they are extremely rusty and dusty.
 I pulled the chassis on the SF and saw that it has been modded. The Normal channel bright switch is gone and in it's place is a 1/4" jack that goes to a battery powered relay. Also at a glance, I noticed the tremolo circuit is gone! The associated tube only has the heater wires and the circuitry on the board is gone too. It looks like the Speed and intensity pots are now some sort of master volume.
 This amp also has 2 Pyle Driver speakers and 2 different unidentifiable speakers for a total of 3 different speaker types.
 And of course, it has a 10A fuse.
 I'm going to find out today if the owner wants it restored or just checked out and made operational as is.
To fully restore it would entail restoring the circuit as well as 4 new speakers, a new faceplate and 2 or 3 knobs. Then there's the cabinet. It would need to be retolexed, but I'm not going there.
 So for the circuit restoration, what do you say is a market price? The reason I ask is I want to offer him something to just outright buy it. I don't think looking at reverb or Ebay is a good way to value it as I have never seen one in this condition. 

[vampwizzard]

reverb is still a good way to research. SF supers are selling for between 800-1000 in good condition according to their price guide. Work backwards from there. What are the parts going to cost? How much time will it take and how much do you value your time? Is it to flip or to keep as a personal amp? All are factors in what you offer. Make a spread sheet, put every cost in there and tally it up. When you make the offer, have this information readily available to explain it.

To make it operational will be one cost that the owner will pay. To restore it a higher number. Or the owner can take x dollars on it and not worry about its relatively low value in modern amp terms.

how bad is the corrosion inside the chassis?

[JustMike]

 The inside is surprisingly clean.
 More pics;

[pdf64]

The green and black secondary wires from the OT seem strangely long, dangling outside the chassis?
Check the inside of the chassis around the jacks (they'll need removing) for corrosion. Any there will need cleaning back to shiny metal for the 0V to chassis system to work; having cleaning off the corrosion and old plating, can't really leave it as bare steel, so the chassis would then need stripping down for replating.

[bmccowan]

If you buy it, do you want to fix and sell or fix and keep/play? I think it'd be difficult to buy, fix and sell for a profit. I think you'd have to buy it for $300 or so to make that work, and lately basket case amps are going for more than they are worth IMO. But if you want to fix and keep - its a different story. Fixing up basket cases is satisfying; especially if you don't count up the expenses and the hours. Stay away from spreadsheets. They will only make you miserable.

[JustMike]

If I do buy it I'd want to restore it to original, maybe BF it, and keep it for a while. I wouldn't flip it.  Since the owner is a friend, I wouldn't do that to him. I would rather just charge him a fair price for my time and let him sell it.


 

[HotBluePlates]

A friend of mine owns a small music store and he has some old amps ... a 1975(ish) Silverface Super Reverb ...
 modded. ... This amp also has 2 Pyle Driver speakers and 2 different unidentifiable speakers for a total of 3 different speaker types. ...

There was a drip-edge Super Reverb in excellent condition that popped up on my local Craigslist for $799.  Had the original CTS alnicos, plus an extra set of 4 CTS alnico speakers (where'd he get those??).

It sat unsold for over a year.  I almost bought it myself, but I already had a blackface Super Reverb.

So you say >$300, and recent sales say <$800.  Pick a number between that you're comfortable giving your friend.  Speakers are gonna cost you >$200 if you go to replace them all.

[PRR]

..... Make a spread sheet, put every cost in there and tally it up.....

Carefully!

I just ran across this  "list – 44 pages long – of spreadsheet horror stories, of data entry, calculating, modelling, and analytic chaos that has cost hundreds of millions of pounds and put endeavour of all sorts at risk." Goes back to the Babylonians. (Civilization apparently begins not with poetry and drama but with tax returns and shopping lists.)
http://www.eusprig.org/horror-stories.htm

[bmccowan]

If I do buy it I'd want to restore it to original, maybe BF it, and keep it for a while. I wouldn't flip it.  Since the owner is a friend, I wouldn't do that to him. I would rather just charge him a fair price for my time and let him sell it.

Always a bit tough when its a friend. If buying to keep I'd offer him $400 for that amp - you are both doing ok. If restoring and keeping for a while to play, and then passing it back to the friend? I have done that for friends and just charged them for the cost of the parts. If they are good friends, the favor is returned somehow. He owns a music store - I see a barter in your future.

[mresistor]

IMO the cabinets in the SF SR's are not very good at all, and a new cabinet should be considered...  with finger/dovetail joinery and a removeable baffle. 


That being said when you restore one to vintage specs it is certainly worth more than $1K - heck replacing the 4 speakers would be $500 alone but is well worth installing 4 alnico 10s - the speakers in the pic above are hideous..

[DummyLoad]

$225 to $250 as salvage, as that's all that amp is at this point - IF all the transformers and reverb tank are working.


needs 4 speakers. $350 or more depending on brand .
new tolex. $100-$150
70's cabinets are not finger jointed and are rickety. baffle is MDF and glued in - if it needs replacing then you have another $300-$400 for a new cabinet if it's not worth repairing.
rebuild circuits. $50-$75 depending on parts used and condition of pots & jacks, was stored by the ocean, so probably some are junk by now. more if rebuilt with cork sniffer caps.
gonna probably want to re-tube it. $125-$150 - significantly more if NOS are used.
beat out chassis dents by jacks - six pack, at least one splif, and lots of cussing.

--pete

[mresistor]

Pete   the chassis probably isn't dented that I can tell from the pics,,  the faceplate is a mess.  So  yeah replacement faceplate would be wanted to if restoring.

I just restored a 1973 Super Rev earlier this year for a friend.   Yours is in about the same condition, slighty better.   His the cabinet was submerged in water for some time so the bottom was a total loss. We junked the cabinet. Those cabinets are not worth even a minute of working on.  Just toss it in the dumpster where it belongs.
His had original RCA 6L6GC that sounded excellent. He bought a new bf style cabinet with sf cloth and we also replaced the reverb pan.
The circuit was in good shape and components were fine, I blackfaced the bias circuit and added 1 ohm resistors as well. Replaced one pot.
We bought 4 x Eminence Alnico 10's which are basically the same speakers as what was stock in these amps.
He got it from a guy at work on the back of his trucks tailgate and paid $100 for it.
We put $750 to $800 in it and it turned out fantastic and personally if it were mine I wouldn't sell it for any less than $1500 .

[Willabe]

Goes back to the Babylonians. (Civilization apparently begins not with poetry and drama but with tax returns and shopping lists.)

 

[bmccowan]

Another hobby of mine is vintage cars. I think the issues are similar. It is nearly impossible to make good money restoring vintage automobiles through buying/restoring/selling, unless what you have is a highly valued model. If you are really good, you can restore other peoples cars and charge good money for it. To buy, restore and keep/sell, an amp such as this one, you need to enjoy the process. That's the sense I get from mresistor. You cannot calculate the satisfaction level with a spreadsheet.
I recently picked up a blackface Concert chassis. It had met some bad end and the trannies had been removed. I found a bandmaster head cabinet that fits it just right. The total cost of those plus 3 pieces of new iron, new tubes, and new caps will be over the value of that amp. But it'll be a fun project, and I'll have the satisfaction of bringing it back from the dead, and I'll feel free to experiment with things like the Tremonator. But I'm not in the business of amp repair/restoration. It's just a hobby. The two scenarios are very different.

[vampwizzard]

while that is absolutely true and I absolutely agree, the OP asked what the market price was in relation to a resto or repair as is.

[DummyLoad]

Pete   the chassis probably isn't dented that I can tell from the pics, .

am i seeing things? the leftmost jack looks out of alignment with the one to the right, and the faceplate clearly has some damage.

i doubt any 70's super reverb will get $1500.00, IME, you'd be lucky to get $1K


--pete

[bmccowan]

while that is absolutely true and I absolutely agree, the OP asked what the market price was in relation to a resto or repair as is.

Yup, I was just suggesting another way to look at the situation since he said he wanted to keep and play it for a while.

[HotBluePlates]

... personally if it were mine I wouldn't sell it for any less than $1500 .

... I doubt any 70's super reverb will get $1500.00, IME, you'd be lucky to get $1K

I agree with DummyLoad.  Again, refer above to the $800 1968 Super Reverb that took over a year to sell near me recently (in excellent condition, with an extra quad of CTS alnico speakers as part of the deal).

I bought an excellent condition blackface Super Reverb 2 years ago for $1400.  It would not have cost me that much, except the seller was a nice guy that had already given me a screaming deal on a different amp so I wasn't interested in negotiating down to the lowest market price.

I know I wouldn't be interested in the OP's amp priced even at $500.  But to each their own...

[mresistor]

Pete   the chassis probably isn't dented that I can tell from the pics, .

am i seeing things? the leftmost jack looks out of alignment with the one to the right, and the faceplate clearly has some damage.

i doubt any 70's super reverb will get $1500.00, IME, you'd be lucky to get $1K


Pete - you are right   strange..   also the inside diameter of that input jack looks larger than for a 1/4" plug. 



--pete

[JustMike]

The input jacks are original, but the face is dented. So I talked to the owner and we've decided to restore the circuit to original. Cosmetically, I'm just going to clean it up. He says he can find new faceplates and he said he's got a line on some old Fender Utah 10's. 
 There are 2 other amps; a '92-'94 "Super" amp that just needs routine maintenance (Caps,Tubes,cleaning) and a MusicMan RD-112-Fifty that needs tubes and cleaning.
 I just ordered parts for all 3 and the cost is about $250. I'm just going to restore and repair them for him. I think a reasonable fee for my labor is $250-$300? He'll either pay or barter for the cost.