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Hoffman Amps Forum image Author Topic: Leslie 45cab/47 power amp  (Read 4509 times)

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Offline Willabe

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Leslie 45cab/47 power amp
« on: November 22, 2022, 03:25:45 pm »
Question: Does it matter which wire, red or black, that comes from the power amp's OT, feeds one side or the other of the crossover? And does anyone know the name/type of crossover this is? Drawing, schematic attached below.

Since I don't need 40w's, I'm setting it up to use any guitar amp I want, probably a smaller 15 or 20w guitar amp.

From the Leslie 47 power amp, to the crossover, there's a twisted pair of wires that comes from the 47's OT secondary, a red and a black.
*But* the 47 power amp's OT's secondary has a CT that stands on a 150R/10w bypassed with a 200uF/50v cap. So the OT is grounded through the CT, through the R/C, not 1 end of the OT secondary wind directly to chassis ground.

So does it make any difference if the guitar amp's OT's + goes to P7 - L (plug 7, large pin) or to P7 - S (plug 7, small pin)? (The Leslie 122 drawing attached below is different at the OT secondary CT, it has no R/C bypass cap. Look at the 47 amp schematic just below the 122 crossover drawing, crossovers are exactly the same.) 

The 12.5uF and 7.8uF were both reading ~30uF. So, I just put new caps in the crossover.   

Full story;

I bought a '59 Leslie 45/47 cab/amp, it's a single speed model, short cab, walnut stain. I bought a Hampton MK II speed conversion kit,  that you can get fast/slow/off with a 2 button Ft Sw. -or-  with an expression peddle you can get 9 speeds and off. It's in ~8 out of 10 shape? It's never been gigged, was in some school here where I live. The 47 power amp was rebuilt before I bought it and has all NOS tubes. It's a 40w, K bias, 6550's, 12AU7 PI and OC3 regulator tube.   

It was a little musty smelling and needed a little work. So I took the whole thing apart, washed the inside of the cab with diluted Murphy's Oil wood soap and left the cab outside in the sunshine for ~2.5 days, UV light. Much better now. The motors were free and surprisingly clean, but a little gummed up, decades of old oil/dust. Bass rotor bearings were originals, were turning, but getting stiff/dry inside. Before I cleaned/oiled the motors and horn spindle and installed the new drum bearings, the horn and bass drum would spin on the fast speed pretty well. But when I got the speed conversion kit installed and tried the slow speed, the horn would stop right away and the bass drum would sometimes stop also.   

So I took apart the motors, cleaned and oiled them, installed new bass rotor bearings/grommets, new motor and drum grommets and oiled every nut and machine bolt before putting it all back together. Horn and bass drum now spin freely, like they should. Jensen horn driver and Jensen P15LL bass speaker, both original, work fine, very clean and in very good shape.

    Thanks, Willabe   
« Last Edit: November 22, 2022, 04:24:05 pm by Willabe »

Offline PRR

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Re: Leslie 45cab/47 power amp
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2022, 04:36:57 pm »
> Does it matter which wire

If you get it backward, when the rotors get to 88RPM, the musicians age backward to teenagers, to babies, to a hot couple in the back of a new '57 Chevy.

Offline sluckey

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Re: Leslie 45cab/47 power amp
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2022, 05:07:16 pm »
> Does it matter which wire

If you get it backward, when the rotors get to 88RPM, the musicians age backward to teenagers, to babies, to a hot couple in the back of a new '57 Chevy.
Wait! I want to buy that cab!
A schematic, layout, and hi-rez pics are very useful for troubleshooting your amp. Don't wait to be asked. JUST DO IT!

Offline Willabe

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Re: Leslie 45cab/47 power amp
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2022, 08:06:57 pm »
I take it that means, no it doesn't matter.

I just don't understand the crossover and the OT CT on the Leslie 47 amp.

Offline sluckey

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Re: Leslie 45cab/47 power amp
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2022, 09:17:42 pm »
Redraw the crossover and it looks like the standard 2-way crossover.

The KT88s cathodes are connected to the OT secondary along with the speakers. The secondary center tap has the cathode resistor and cap connected to ground. This arrangement provides NFB to the cathodes.
A schematic, layout, and hi-rez pics are very useful for troubleshooting your amp. Don't wait to be asked. JUST DO IT!

Offline Ed_Chambley

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Re: Leslie 45cab/47 power amp
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2022, 10:37:52 pm »
Cool, it looks like it is in good shape.  I recently sold a 147.  Nothing sounds the same!

Offline Willabe

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Re: Leslie 45cab/47 power amp
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2022, 08:23:19 am »
Redraw the crossover and it looks like the standard 2-way crossover.

Thank you! Now I see whats going on.

The KT88s cathodes are connected to the OT secondary along with the speakers. The secondary center tap has the cathode resistor and cap connected to ground. This arrangement provides NFB to the cathodes.

Yes, I saw the FB to the K's.

They also have FB from the output tube plates to the grid, 56K/100pF. It's probably to suppress 'key click'.

Offline sluckey

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Re: Leslie 45cab/47 power amp
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2022, 08:58:29 am »
They also have FB from the output tube plates to the grid, 56K/100pF. It's probably to suppress 'key click'.
Hmm. Nothing like that on the schematic you posted.
A schematic, layout, and hi-rez pics are very useful for troubleshooting your amp. Don't wait to be asked. JUST DO IT!

Offline Willabe

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Re: Leslie 45cab/47 power amp
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2022, 11:02:14 pm »
Sorry, I was looking at the 147 Leslie amp. 

But the 47 Leslie amp has .005 caps off the power tube plates to ground.

Offline PRR

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Re: Leslie 45cab/47 power amp
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2022, 03:38:45 pm »
> FB from the output tube plates to the grid, 56K/100pF. It's probably to suppress 'key click'.

That won't come to maximum effect until 30kHz. The 0.005uFd, maybe 16kHz. This to tame the top-resonance of the OT so the overall NFB can be stable. (This can be a fussy balance, so two different techniques may reflect change in OT winding or just change of opinion, or maybe trouble in a particularly large/long church installation.)

 


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