Fromel electronecs amp mod kits

[punkykatt]

Hello all, have any of you fine gentlemen ever install one of these amp mod kits on a Fender 65 Deluxe Reverb RI? If so. Do you think is was worth it as far as improving the overall sound?  https://fromelelectronics.com/products/drri-mods. Thank you in advance for any input.

[AlNewman]

From what I've seen with the fromel mods, they really don't change the values much.  Depending on how old your amp is, the electrolytics may still be good, and if not, all the parts in the supereme kit would likely come to about $50 give or take.  It's likely when they refer to "getting rid of the harsh brittle sound" all they mean is clip the bright cap on the volume control, which allows high frequencies to pass at lower volumes.  Try channel 1, which doesn't have the bright cap, or turning the volume of channel 2 up to 4 or 5, and see if the tone is still too harsh, if that helps warm it up, then you can try clipping C10.

If you are planning on spending $100 plus anyways, you could try a speaker change.  If you have a ceramic speaker in, you can try switching it for a jensen p12Q which they installed at the factory in their limited edition models.  I have one with that speaker, and I don't find the tone harsh at all, even with the bright cap in.  YMMV.  Others may have differing opinions, but that's my thoughts, good luck.

[thetragichero]

i picked up a newer vibrolux dirt cheap because somebody tried to do "the fromel mods" to it and it had little-to-no output (they hacked up the board). i gutted it and built it like a blackface and it sounds wonderful. not a fan of the companies selling mod kits on reverb for amps/pedals and upcharging 1000% or more for the parts

[shaun]

It just so happens that installing a Fromel kit in my Fender DR RI, as well as building a strange tube pedal kit from MOD, sent me down the rabbit hole in which I currently reside.

So, the good: the kit did improve the tone of the Deluxe reverb RI, but not as much as I hoped; it somehow fell short I what I wanted to feel when I played through it, and it didn't really cut it at band practice the way I'd hoped. Something was definitely missing.

In New Zealand - my home country - I had played silverface Fender Twins back in the 80's, and I was probably hoping to recreate that tone. The Fromel kit didn't cut it. So then I bought a mojotone 5E3 kit and learned that point-to-point is the only way to go if you want great tone  (unless you have really good pcbs, which I don't). But I learned sweet ef allo allo from doing a build-by-numbers kit - they don't explain anything, just tell you where to put the yellow wire, etc., -  so I started tearing apart old organs. I made a ton of mistakes, but thanks to the help from this and other forums, and books and articles, I can now build a pretty good tube amplifier. And as of this moment, it is my greatest satisfaction in life.

Fortunately for me, I was able to sell the Fender Deluxe Reverb RI for about $100 more than I paid, so it was all good. But for the real deal, there's a hill to climb: the Hill of Knowledge. You can only get near the top by building from scratch. And then you see that there is another hill behind it, then another, and another. But gosh darn it to hell and back, I just can't stop.

Be careful of the ribbon cables in the DR RI - they snap rather easily at the solder joints when moving the pcb back and forth. You might be able to find my really crappy video on it here: 

&t=7s

Here is a sort of comparison video of the modded Fender next to the mojotone 5E3 kit I built, next to a stock marshall DSL40c:

&t=162s

[HotBluePlates]

Hello all, have any of you fine gentlemen ever install one of these amp mod kits on a Fender 65 Deluxe Reverb RI? If so. Do you think is was worth it as far as improving the overall sound? ...

I have not tried Fromel's kit.  But I used to make & sell/install Hoffman-style boards, and I used to own a 1964 Deluxe Reverb (not at the same time).

Overall, I don't believe in the sonic virtue of "special parts" though I know from being on both sides of the transaction that board/kit/amp sellers tout the virtue of those parts to create a value proposition explaining why you should buy from them.

The #1 challenge for the Deluxe Reverb is the dang Volume pot bright cap.  Remove it (or turn the Volume control above 7), and you solve 96% of all complaints.  But maybe this isn't the end of the story...

My 1964 Deluxe Reverb had a 125P23B power transformer whose high voltage secondary DCR was 220.4Ω.  With your amp off, measure the resistance from Red to Red on the PT.  How does yours compare?  I have not tried it but suspect adding resistance between PT secondary and the rectifier plates could make up much of the difference between vintage & reissue amps.

Consider adding resistance to make up the difference between my old amp's DCR and your measured DCR, as a resistor that's 1/2 of the total between the Red wire and Pins 4 & 6 of your GZ34.  Assume a max current of 120-140mA for purposes of estimating the wattage rating of the resistor.

[mresistor]

Overall, I don't believe in the sonic virtue of "special parts" though I know from being on both sides of the transaction that board/kit/amp sellers tout the virtue of those parts to create a value proposition explaining why you should from them.

Marketing    differentiate your product from all the others     and the intended audience is people seeking the magic parts

[HotBluePlates]

Marketing    differentiate your product from all the others     and the intended audience is people seeking the magic parts

Of course!

When I made Hoffman boards, I offered the "upgrade parts" for an uncharge, because buyers had already fallen for the hype & wanted the "upgrade parts."  But if they asked whether those parts would make their amp sound better, I'd tell them "No."

[mresistor]

Marketing    differentiate your product from all the others     and the intended audience is people seeking the magic parts

Of course!
When I made Hoffman boards, I offered the "upgrade parts" for an uncharge, because buyers had already fallen for the hype & wanted the "upgrade parts."  But if they asked whether those parts would make their amp sound better, I'd tell them "No."

I wasn't referencing you HPB  I was thinking of Fromel's and others offerings -  like that guy out in Cali. can't remember his name.  Some of their parts kits and instructions were noteworthy and some less so. If the marketing is really good it can rope customers in whether the product really delivers or not, and the less experienced and knowlegeable get roped in easily.

[AlNewman]

It just so happens that installing a Fromel kit in my Fender DR RI, as well as building a strange tube pedal kit from MOD, sent me down the rabbit hole in which I currently reside.

So, the good: the kit did improve the tone of the Deluxe reverb RI, but not as much as I hoped; it somehow fell short I what I wanted to feel when I played through it, and it didn't really cut it at band practice the way I'd hoped. Something was definitely missing.

In New Zealand - my home country - I had played silverface Fender Twins back in the 80's, and I was probably hoping to recreate that tone. The Fromel kit didn't cut it. So then I bought a mojotone 5E3 kit and learned that point-to-point is the only way to go if you want great tone  (unless you have really good pcbs, which I don't). But I learned sweet ef allo allo from doing a build-by-numbers kit - they don't explain anything, just tell you where to put the yellow wire, etc., -  so I started tearing apart old organs. I made a ton of mistakes, but thanks to the help from this and other forums, and books and articles, I can now build a pretty good tube amplifier. And as of this moment, it is my greatest satisfaction in life.

Fortunately for me, I was able to sell the Fender Deluxe Reverb RI for about $100 more than I paid, so it was all good. But for the real deal, there's a hill to climb: the Hill of Knowledge. You can only get near the top by building from scratch. And then you see that there is another hill behind it, then another, and another. But gosh darn it to hell and back, I just can't stop.

Be careful of the ribbon cables in the DR RI - they snap rather easily at the solder joints when moving the pcb back and forth. You might be able to find my really crappy video on it here: 

&t=7s

Here is a sort of comparison video of the modded Fender next to the mojotone 5E3 kit I built, next to a stock marshall DSL40c:

&t=162s

For me, I had bought some new tubes for my deluxe reverb, and in the process of biasing them I shorted out the bias pot, and that sent me down my first rabbit hole.  And I just kept on diggin'.  (The DR runs like a top now, it isn't a coffee table or anything...)

[punkykatt]

Thanks everyone for the interesting input. I`m going to have the customer bring the amp to my shop and play it for me and explain what he wants tone wise out of this amp. I have done many Hoffman board conversions which I`d rather do than mess with the flimsy PCB`s if I don`t have too. Maybe it will be simple fix too. Thanks again.

[tubeswell]

...worth it?  https://fromelelectronics.com/products/drri-mods.

$118.95! Gosh! Who knew I'm thinking to do a 'kit' like this, but for $117.95. Supreme quality indeed!

[acheld]

Supreme quality indeed!

I'm not a fan of this business.    IIRC, Bill Machrone (BillM) started this off with some well thought out mods to Blues Juniors years ago, and Formal (auto correct at its best!) followed along.  Machrone published his mods and techniques freely, along with his reasoning, so you could adapt and use the mods as you wished. 

By far, the mod that made the most sense was to allow the user to dial back the bias of the BJ's EL-84s, which until the latest edition, were biased really hot from the factory.

Formal, and others, got into the business of "recapping" for tone.    I mean, come on. 

As much as I love F&T caps (and I do!), I don't think they really make enough of a difference in the power supply to justify messing with the fragile Fender boards.    "Recapping" may equal "kneecapping" !!   

Rant over.   Cheers everyone!